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Odessey & Oracle

Just looking back at the album poll and was wondering if a few people ever ended up picking up (or grrr, downloading) this great, great '60s album.

Schwah, Stephan - I'm looking at you guys (only because you both mentioned an unfamiliarity with it).

Ok ok, I'll just come right out and say it: has anyone fallen in love with this record in the past few months?

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Still anticipating a love affair once I get some money together to go get it.

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Ahh, dang it! Now I remember, jonmarck - you were another one who hadn't heard it either.

The price tag is ugly. It's unfortunate.

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It's not expensive. You can get it for $9.00 on amazon. Or £4.61 if you buy it from England.

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I don't have it either - it's one of those albums that will be a bitch to get - it has been available here for a high price but from the sounds of it,it may be worth the money - all I've heard is the radio favourite 'Time Of The Season'

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Get the deluxe edition. It has stereo and mono versions of the songs and I prefer the mono versions.

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Anthony -

I'm sorry. I have not gotten to it yet. I 've just come off an extremely busy month at work and a vacation with the family. Additionally, I'm still old school when it comes to music purchases. I look for deals on new or used CD's in music stores, rather than purchasing online. I just haven't seen Odyssey & Oracle. I know I need to get it, and it is the first I look for when I go into record shop, but haven't found it.

Maybe I'll cave in and buy it off of Amazon or iTunes. soon, as I trust everyone's judgment, and really like Care of Cell 44. I don't do the downloading thing anymore. (Did it to a very limited extent in the past.)

BTW, the album I have fallen madly in love with since the albums poll has been The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society.

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Hey Anthony:

I mentioned in another thread that this and Beach Boys Surf's Up were the two gems among older albums that I've discovered over the past few months.

However, I found Zombies at the library, checked it out, then imported the tracks onto my computer. Apparently, from what I hear it's expensive or hard to find, so I'm glad I got the chance to hear it. Beach Boys I bought discounted on Amazon fair and square.

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Guys, sorry for the ass-kissing, office brown-noser-like enthusiasm, but I just really love this record. It's just bizarre how something can elude a person for so long, but then upon discovery, absolutely blow your frickin' mind.

Anyways, looks like a few have found it and love it (Jonah, John), while others still have yet to hear it (Schwah, jonmarck, Midaso). John - I agree. The single-disc deluxe edition goes for 30 loonies up here in Canada (ouch), but it's a worthy addition to any self-respecting music lover's library.

And thanks for the suggestions - I'll look for Surf's Up and Village Green tomorrow.

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I've been listening to this album for 15 years so I didn't just find it...

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It's also one of those albums where a new favorite perfect song emerges upon every listen. For about a month or so, a single song rises above the rest, and it's like discovering God Only Knows for the first time, over and over again.

We ought to do do a monthly Oddyssey and Oracle barometer, Anthony, where we list the one song from the album that at the moment sounds like the best thing ever written. Thanks to the songs poll, Hung Up On a Dream is the Zombies tune for me right now.

The only imperfection on the album is the jarring sequence of Buther's Tale followed immediately by Friends of Mine. Maybe it's the few extremely depressing movies about WWI that go through my mind when I hear that first song, but it's different in lyrical tone than all the other songs and having it followed by a kind of goofy song about lovely couples is too jarring. I'd love to hear anyone's theories on why you think those songs are there in that order.

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That's a helluva'n idea, Jonah! And I completely agree with your comment about a new favorite song emerging with each listen (which reminds me of schleuse's comment on Nevermind from the album poll).

At the moment, mine is "Butcher's Tale", believe it or not. And I agree that the track order (specifically, that and the following song) is a very hard juxtaposition, but it's probably attributable to the fact that above all, it was meant to be a pop record, and that a very sombre, literary song like "Butcher" is a strange statement on an otherwise sunny, melodic album. The band (or label) may have thought that it was too direct, too bold, and while experimental, might leave a bitter taste in listeners' mouths, so they'd need to have a very poppy/fluffy substance-free song to wash it down. (Or maybe, and more likely, it's just because it was the '60s and they just wanted to be weird, for weird's sake?)

(P.S. John - the "found it and love it" comment wasn't referring only to the past couple months. I figured you'd discovered it long ago).

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One listen
Good album, some great songs

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Schwah - Really happy to hear you are loving The Kinks VGPS. I like it even better than O&O.

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I've listened to it twice and it's fantastic. They jump right over all the (psychedelic) pop-pitfalls The Beatles (in my opinion) fell in too often. It's currently my #132, but it could rise.

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My albums between 100 and 150 are heavily influenced by our albums poll anyway, I made it right after the results were published and I think almost half of them are in that list or high on someone else's personal list.

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Well I've discovered I could get this album for $30 NZ money which I guess at the moment is about US$24 - I'll think about it...

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Stephan – glad to hear it!

Midaso – is that for the deluxe edition? If so, that’s cheaper than here.

Paul – I picked up VGPS today ($17 – not too shabby). Just thought I’d mention it.

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I picked up the delux edition for 10 euro. Thats a great bargain in Ireland. Its a lovely album, a real grower. At first I felt it was a little bit too much of its time and hadn,t dated very well, but i,ve found myself coming back to it again and again.

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The one they've got here for $30 - it's got 16 bonus tracks for a total of 28 tracks
But for the deluxe version,which has to be shipped from USA,it costs NZ$45

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I picked it up.

It's pretty good.

I can see why it got picked on this forum, since this forum tends to slant toward eclectic pop.

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There is an article in Rock & Folk's new issue about The Zombies by a critic named Nicolas Ungenmuth, who is always spot on with this forum's subjects.
I will translate it if I have the time (and try to send the guy an email about our site). He is the magazine's rock historian and a walking encyclopedia.

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There's a program on Norwegian TV tonight about Odessey & Oracle. I might just watch it.

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Hi Anthony, as mentioned in a mail to you already, I really like the album and it keeps growing and it's just a matter of time to see it enter my favorite 100.
And 'Hung Up On A Dream' would now be somewhere in my 200 songs list, for sure, it's brilliant and very 'sticky'.

OK, have to admit that I've downloaded the deluxe edition. But as I posted somewhere on this forum before, those downloaded albums that I like a lot, I will buy too.

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Hey Andre - glad to hear it.

(Oh, and as you've probably noticed, I kinda sorta abandoned that whole "positive approach" to Survivor. Sorry!)

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i'm translating the article. I'm 2/3 into it.
Expect something interesting;
It is long.
Is it better if I make several post or can I post it in full ?

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nicolas - that's awesome!

Maybe try and post it in a way that's easiest to read. thanks.

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Andre,

Back to “Hung Up on a Dream” for a second - yeah, it’s the best song on the record if you ask me. I mean, the other 11 songs are great in their own way, but there’s just something special about the one that brings Side A to a close. It’s also probably the one on the album where the “psychedelic” tag applies best – just listen to those dreamy, nostalgic lyrics: “Well, I remember yesterday/just drifting slowly through a crowded street…” and especially, that break at ~1:15 – the song’s tempo slows down, Argent steps in and puts his vocal stamp on the song: “a sweet confusion filled my mind/until I woke up only finding everything was just a dream…” and then listen for those eerie background vocals on the verse that immediately follows!

And how about “Butcher’s Tale” – my current favorite. That chorus! “And I can’t stop shaking/my hand won’t stop shaking/my arms won’t stop shaking/my mind won’t stop shaking. I want to go home/please let me go home.”

This album is jam packed with musical and lyrical genius. F$%k. I can’t get enough of it.

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"A Rose For Emily" ia another killer!

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Article published in French magazine Rock & Folk, by Nicolas Ungemuth

(hastily) translated by Nicolas Lejeune (oh Lord have mercy of the poor translater)






title : And then there is « Odessey And Oracle"

Everybody says it : the album, the record as we knew it, is fading away. Too inattentive, too impatient, too poor, too tired, too entertained, too brain-dead, too informed, people now prefer to download song by song. So we are about to find ourselves in the same situation as 40 years ago… Back then, artists issued singles and then, from time to time, to make a little more money, hastily put together albums bought by few people and which didn’t really count. The 33 RPM LP, available since 1948, after all, was still young. It was used as a sort of throwaway. You could place there already-issued singles and fill up the rest with instrumentals, covers or weaker tracks. All you had to do was reach thirty minutes of music and it was settled, ready to invade the record stores’ shelves.

40 years

And then in 1965, everything changed. With “Bringing It All Back Home”, “Highway 61 Revisited” and “Rubber Soul”, issued the same year. Young groups and songwriters craving for artistic freedom and innovation realize that they have about 40 minutes at hand to express their creativity. And things won’t be the same anymore. The rest of the world, thunderstrucked by both these Beatles and Dylan albums, quickly got over from the shock and rushed head-first… Like them or not, between 1966 and 1970, not even mentioning Motown and Stax, decisive albums came out (sometimes several records one after the other by the same artist) by : Stooges, Velvet Underground, Led Zeppelin, Kinks, Small Faces, Love, Dylan, Beatles, Rolling Stones, Nico, Donovan, Janis Joplin, Byrds, Doors, Free, Jefferson Airplane, The Band, Van Morrison, Tim Buckley, Traffic, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Elvis Presley, Margo Guryan, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Flying Burrito Bros, John Mayall, Jimi Hendrix, Cream, Rod Stewart, Humble Pie, Mamas & Papas, Moody Blues, Move, Grateful Dead, Procol Harum, Nick Drake, Kevin Ayers, Buffalo Springfield, Freid Neil, Pink Floyd, Soft Machine, Fairport Convention, Mothers Of Invention, Tim Hardin, Townes Van Zandt, Harry Nilsson, Who, Jeff Beck, Syd Barrett, 13th Floor Elevators, Captain Beefheart, Pretty Things, MC5… And that’s not all folks, you might have guessed. All this and much more, in only four years.

Let’s compare, for better understanding. Between 2004 and 2008 ? Scissor Sisters, Amy Winehouse, Baby Shambles, Radiohead, White Stripes, CocoRosie (no, that’s a joke… , Bloc Party, Killers, Franz Ferdinand, Arcade Fire, Rakes, Interpol, Mika, Arctic Monkeys… Of course that list isn’t exhaustive, but they don’t play in the same league anyway. Back then, those years between 1966 and 1970 look like the golden age. By the number of great albums issued (in addition to the singles !), only the 1977-84 era can more or less compete, but without matching. And still, among this festival of records, not so many of them are perfect.

By the way, what is a perfect album ? It’s an album without any single bad song (so no “Within You Without You”, no “European Son”, no “Rael 2”, no “How Many More Times”, no “Sing This All Together” . It’s a cohesive album, a block. More “Beggars Banquet” than “Let It Bleed”. It’s an album without cover or instrumental abuse.

That doesn’t mean that perfect albums are the best. There are partially messed up albums that can be revered for a lot of excellent reasons like “Between The Buttons”, “A Quick One”, “Nashville Skyline”, “Face To Face”, “The Notorious Byrd Brothers”, “Fifth Dimension”, “Neil Young”, or “White Light White Heat”. Perfection can be wearisome. And it’s inhuman.
And, last, it is too rare anyway. There are not so many perfect records in this sixties’ list after all. “Beggars Banquet”. “The Village Green Preservation Society”. “Pet Sounds”. “Revolver”. “Tim Hardin 2”. The third Small Faces. “Forever Changes”. “Axis : Bold As Love”. “Highway 61 Revisited”. “Blonde On Blonde”. “Would You Believe”. “Take A Picture”. That is far from being exhaustive but you won’t find 50 others.

And then there is “Odessey And Oracle”, precisely one of the most perfect. Which just celebrated its 40th birthday. And an unlikely case : when this masterpiece comes out, in 1968, and when its main single “Time Of The Season” is climbing the charts worldwide, and especially in the United States in 1968, the band responsible for all this beauty no longer exists. The Zombies weren’t like any other band. Their career started strangely. With a massive hit ! First recording, first single and bang ! That song is number 2 in the States ! We’re talking about the terribly effective “She’s Not There”. There is already Colin Blunstone’s graceful, warm and vibrant voice, all velvet. And an organ that would traumatize Ray Manzarek. Often a Wurlitzer, often in minor key, arranged by Rod Argent’s expert fingers, a composer of exception, challenged on a regular basis by Chris White’s compositions. White was very skilled too when it came to write good choruses and verses.

Obstacle course

But the Zombies are having trouble. First of all they’ve got the stupidest band name of the era with the Beach Boys. It’s a subject of recurrent mockery. A shame. Manfred Mann himself supposedly said to Rod Argent : “I love what you do, but hell, you have to change your name.” And they have this “first of the class” look Well educated, uncool, square. In this Rolling Stones, Who and Pretty Things era, this apparent sweetness is a serious handicap. Credible and true songwriters are subversive. And noisy. Even the Kinks : if they can do “Dandy” and “Well-respected Man”, it’s because a few years before, they bought their credibility with “You Really Got Me”, “All Day And All Of The Nights” et al. Same for The Who. If they can whine on “Pictures Of Lily”, that’s because they destroyed everything with “My Generation” and “Anyway Anyhow Anywhere”…

But the Zombies never did anything like that. From the beginning, they hang on to their strange style. Compositions alternating minor and major modes, complex vocal harmonies ala Hollies, hardly any guitars, lots of keyboards, discreet drums, almost jazzy, in triple time. “She’s Not There” sums it up. It’s a clean sound, flirting dangerously with the most embarrassing foolishness (“Tell Her No”, “The Way I Feel Inside” .
Yet the Zombies were unable to give a repeat performance. Between 1964 and 1966, none of their singles, although often fascinating (see “She’s Coming Home” or “Whenever You’re Ready” for instance), hit the charts. So much so that the band only recorded one album, on the sly in 1964 and dramatically mediocre, which wasn’t much help for their reputation. The Zombies weren’t taken seriously. A nice little clean band, a little like the Hollies. The Zombies were not part of the revolution. Excluded, as a matter of fact. While Lennon, McCartney, Jagger, Richards, Townshend, Dylan, Davies or Lou Reed were inventing a new world, the Zombies confined themselves to their likeable affectedness, like some English Beach Boys, but without a Brian Wilson.

Their career is catastrophic, an aspiring musician’s nightmare : a smash hit at first, then nothing… In 1967, their contract with Decca expires, CBS agrees to sign them for a single album. And doesn’t want to spend a fortune with a record very likely to pass unnoticed (which will be the case). The budget is 2000 £. In other words, not much. All the better for our story : The Zombies, with big ideas in their mind, have to cope with a mellotron to save money, instead of the true instruments they had planned to use.

Legend has it that back then the Zombies already knew that it would be their last album. Hard to believe : why be so perfectionist when you know that the game is over ? We poor mortals, neither artists nor musicians, listen to their records and the verdict falls, lazily… this one is good, that one is bad. Next. But are we ever aware of the obstacle course, of all that can cause failure in the process, we the rustic, the country boys ? Unlike the writer who only has, between his brains and his pen, his sole arm, the musician has to make choices. The more they are, the more the chances to fail. Hugh Cornwell, ex-Stranglers, sums it up very well in his autobiography, “A Multitude Of Sins” : A songwriter composes a song with his guitar. Everything is OK until then. But the song still has to be recorded. Does it have to be recorded acoustically, with a single guitar and a voice, or with other instruments ? Which instruments ? Who has to play them ? Where will the song be recorded ? Who will be the producer ? Who will be the sound ingeneer ? Does the song need to be rearranged ? Would it be better if it was played in another key ? How many times the musicians will have to play it before it is recorded ? Which one is the best cut ? Once recorded, who will mix the instruments ? Which one is the best mix ? And last, who will hear this album ? How will people be informed of its existence and how are we gonna make them want to listen to it ?
Making a record is a sort of miracle… Then making a big record is unexpected… The Zombies, in 1967, while their career is at a standstill, are about to struggle like desperate men and make all the right choices.

Deliciously “art nouveau”

Strange as it seems, they have access to Abbey Road, a studio usually dedicated to major bands. The Beatles have just recorded “Sgt Pepper’s” there, and The Zombies take advantage of the both sound ingeneers Peter Vince and Geoff Emerick’s freshly acquired experience. Still willing to save money, White and Argent take care of the producing. The band is focused. The songs are cut after a few takes and all the compositions are used.
Rather than recording the album in one go, the Zombies have access to Abbey Road when the studio is available, that is when the EMI artists, who have priority over all the others, are not there.

The Mellotron, there to make for the lack of budget, is used with a rare understanding. White’s Precision bass sounds wonderful. The drums as well. In brief series of sessions, a few days here, a few days there (and some tracks recorded in the legendary Olympic studios, Hendrix’ private playground), the band delivers a complete album. Stuffed with incredible things. Like this “Beechwood Park” with his Bach-inspired guitar, filtered through a Leslie cabin, on top of an almost religious Hammond organ. Or like “Care Of Cell 44”. Or the heavenly “This Will Be Our Year”. Or like “A Rose For Emily”… Or like … the whole record !
A curious record by the way. It is neither “Pet Sounds” nor “Revolver”. Because the Zombies didn’t write huge songs, like “I’m Only Sleeping” or “God Only Knows”. There is no killer track, with a chorus that will obsess you for the rest of your life, a bridge which is a smash hit in itself. “Odessey And Oracle”, in full, almost looks like a big song, with different moments. Moods. We are drawn from a reverie to the other, but, in the end, we are in the same one, from start to end. It is made with an awesome coherence, a amazing logic. In that sense, it is perhaps the climax of ‘60s pop, nicely psychedelic, baroque as we say today (everything which isn’t blues is baroque). But it’s an astounding marvel, which doesn’t empty itself in one shot : after a thousand listens, we still discover sublime details hidden in the corners. Rod Argent signed five tracks, Chris White seven. Both men have reached a staggering mimesis : there is no way to know, without reading the credits, who did what.

Before the album is even finished, 3 singles are released : “Friends Of Mine”/”Beechwood Park”, “This Will Be Our Year”/”A Butcher’s Tale (Western Front 1914)” and “Care Of Cell 44”/”Maybe After He’s Gone”. They all collapse into the abyss of the charts. It is a complete failure, and the whole crew is in low spirits. Time to finish the sessions, to cut the last track “Time Of The Season”, and to entrust the art cover to one of their friends, Terry Quirk, who, in addition to the legendary and unintentional mispelling on Odessey, will produce this so deliciously art nouveau visual with this English psychedelic touch, and The Zombies hear at the last minute that they have to do a stereo mix of the album in a hurry. And it is in stereo that “Odessey And Oracle” will come out (the mono version is available since 1998 through the 30th anniversary edition and is far from being uninteresting). Since they have already spent all their budget allowed for the recording, Rod Argent and Chris White are forced to cut in their own royalties to finance the new stereo mix. And when the stereo master is deliverd at last to CBS on January , 1968 –the album is finished since novembered 1967- the Zombies do not exist anymore.


Solar album

Disgusted by this lack of luck and gratitude, the five musicians have decided to put an end to the adventure. Rod Argent and Chris White start a publishing firm named Nexus, before Rod embarks on his own adventure, Argent. Guitarist Hugh Grundy and drummer Paul Atkinson join CBS UK’s artistic department and Colin Blunstone gives up music before starting an often excellent solo carreer, first of all under the pseudonym of Neil McArthur, then under his own name.

The album is out in April 1968, along with the hit-to be single “Time of The Season”, but nobody wants either of them... but this legendary album’s story isn’t over. At the end of the year, Al Kooper, who played with Dylan and Blood, Sweat & Tears, and works now for CBS USA, turns up in London and buys some 60 albums, including “Odessey”... He knows the band since “She’s Not There”, but what he hears then makes him cry. Back in America, he rushes to see legendary CBS boss Clive Davis and advises him to issue the album and the single (At the beginning, CBS had decided not to issue anything). Davis, hardly convinced, agrees to issue it on his Date label. After all, the Zombies are part of his catalogue.
He issues the album and “A Butcher’s Tale” as a single. The former meets a very limited success, the latter disappears at once. In november 1968, so about a year after “Odessey” was finished, “Time Of The season” comes out in the USA, with nobody at CBS really believing in it. And the song makes number 1 in the US charts (see note). Everybody tries to convince the group members to restart the Zombies now that they are groovy at last. But it’s too late and Argent, White, Blunstone and company stay true to their conviction : no way to do it again.
So the Zombies real story ends there, in late 1968. Glory at the beginning, glory after the end... And nothing in between. Too bad for the Zombies, but not for us. We have this solar album, like an English version of “Pet Sounds”, but even more disturbing, even more bewitching. A unique record which, 40 years after, makes you want to wisper on your own these magical lines :

Do you remember summer days, just after summer rain
When all the air was damp and warm, in the green of country lanes ?
And the breeze would touch your hair, kiss your face and make you care, about your world, your summer world
And we would count the evening stars, as the day grew dark
In Beechwood Park



Note by nicolas : the author is wrong about dates and charting positions. He wrote november 1969 instead of november 1968 (I corrected).
And the single never made #1 in the USA but #3 (not bad anyway), and # 1... in Canada.

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Oh, that's good stuff.

Thanks so much for translating and posting that, nicolas.

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Nicolas, pourrais-tu reposter l'article en français s'il te plait ? Ca m'intéresse beaucoup et j'aimerais être sûr de bien comprendre toutes les phrases. Merci.

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yes, it's a good article
This guy is really good. He is the magazine's historian and in charge of the reissues pages.
He made a hilarious comment on Steely Dan, that I hesitate to post because Steely Dan fans would be after me for the rest of my life.
but I don't think I will resist very long...

Dumbangel : i am really sorry, but I haven't got time to type the whole article once again.
i can send you a copy by mail, but the best way for you would be to buy the magazine. It is still in stores (for 5 Euros) until the 15th of March.
If you can't find it, tell me and I'll send you a photocopy. Sorry again.

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I had read previously that the stereo mix was rushed, but listening to the album in stereo, you wouldn’t know it – it sounds fantastic. (I use the mono mix for my car. Not sure why though, since I just figured out how to tweak the balance!)

About the album sounding like one "big song", I can't say I agree - for me, there are definitely certain moments that stand out. But I can see where he's coming from with that statement.

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Anthony,
I second your emotion when it comes to O and O. I think it's brilliant. In my top five along with Dolittle, OK Computer, Astral Weeks and Car Wheels on a Gravel Road. I still remember when I first got it, about six years ago. I was in my last semester of college. Brilliant!

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lol... thanks Chris. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who has come under the spell of O&O.

Seriously, it's bordering on unhealthy obsession. My *gulp* $70 Japanese-import vinyl should be arriving any day now...

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You probably noticed that he ranks Margo Guryan's "Take A Picture", an album from 1968 (what a great year)among the "perfect" ones.
clic here for the AMG review
So, another lost gem ?
I've listened to a few songs on Songza and it sounds interesting. Far less than O&O anyway but worth the listen.

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You probably noticed that he ranks Margo Guryan's "Take A Picture", an album from 1968 (what a great year)among the "perfect" ones.
clic here for the AMG review
So, another lost gem ?


Definitely yes, though I wouldn't put it in the same class as O&O.

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I sampled a few songs.... not bad, not bad at all. Definitely not in the same class as O&O (although, for me, nothing else comes close). I especially enjoyed “Sun”.

Looks like my collection of 1968 obscurities is about to grow larger.

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Anthony (or anyone else here), have you heard Colin Blunstone's One Year? It's a must for Zombies fans, and includes the utterly perfect "Caroline Goodbye".

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Hey sonofsamiam,

No, I haven’t. I’ve been waist-deep in the Zombies catalog (early singles, Zombie Heaven box set, etc.) and at this point, I haven’t explored any of Blunstone’s catalog, or Argent’s for that matter. But I’m getting there, slowly but surely.

Thanks for the recommendation!

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I love everything the Zombies ever did and I'm not a huge fan of One Year. It's ok, but I was kind of disappointed when I picked it up a few years ago because I had heard so many good things about it. It sounds like a lot of other solo projects from members of adored bands. It feels like a lot has been stripped away from something you love.

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Sonofsamiam, I agree you on "One year". It's an absolute masterpiece.
I don't know if you've noticed it, but "Caroline goodbye" was #32 in my all-time top 100 songs.

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Ungemuth also mentions "Would You Believe". That's my personal O&O-backup.

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This album is jam packed with musical and lyrical genius. F$%k. I can’t get enough of it.

Me too, Anthony, and I just ordered the CD via amazon.de.

The album seems to be able to compete easily with other 60's pop highlights Pet Sounds and Revolver. But that's still a bit premature (only know the album for about 2 months), need to let it all sink in more.

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Correction: "Me too" -> "Me neither".

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I just e-mailed Ugenmuth about this site, he visited it and sent me an e-mail with just one word : Extraordinaire !

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I know what you’re saying, Andre. The fact that O&O isn’t usually mentioned in the same breath as the usual suspects is a bit disappointing. It might not be on the same level experimentation-wise, and it wasn’t the first of its kind (only a few years late!), but if you were to look solely at melody and overall cohesiveness, I don’t see any reason why the Zombies couldn’t stand up next to those giants. For me, there are at least as many great melodies on O&O as there are on Revolver and Pet Sounds. And if I can be bold for a second, it might just be the most consistent from start to finish, of those three.

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"Odessey And Oracle" is in my album Top 10 and has been there for a looooooong time.

I'm really glad you guys love it too.

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I agree with O & O being more cohesive and having more great moments. Of course, I'm not a big fan of Pet Sounds or Revolver, though, so that's not saying much. One thing I've never understood is why we should care in 2008 whether the Beatles did this or that first relative to the Zombies. I read someone on this forum one time make the point that the Beatles had already done what the Zombies were doing on this album. Who cares?

By the way, speaking of things that are brilliant, I just finished watching the British version of The Office for the fifth time from beginning to end. I would think, given the excellent taste in music of the ghosts that haunt this site, that there would be a few fans of that show, which, in my opinion, is flawless from beginning to end. For anyone that hasn't seen it, I highly recommend it. If you're a fan of great music, you're sure to fall in love with the show.

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I've always put off watching that show, not sure why, but I'm almost finished with Six Feet Under so I'll put it next on my list.

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ChrisF – we care because of a universal fascination with “firsts”. First man on the moon, first to climb Mt. Everest, first to run a mile in under four minutes. Does anyone remember the second person to accomplish any of these feats? (well, besides the first one – everyone knows it was Buzz Aldrin. Ok, and maybe the second one too – Tenzing Norgay).

My point is, being the first to discover or accomplish something is a great achievement. Once the discovery is made or the feat is completed, ordinarily, the methodology becomes common knowledge. At that point, anyone can use that knowledge, and with the right tools, duplicate the results. After that point, nobody really cares anymore.

The same applies to music. I’m sure you can fill in the rest.

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Right, but the Beatles didn't do first what the Zombies did on this album, which is make this album. And if the Zombies made a better album, it's still a better album. What if the history books were lost and no one knew who did what first, shouldn't you be able to judge a piece of work on its own merit? Of course, adressing Dumbangel's question about the Frank Black song sounding like the Kinks song is a different story. Actually borrowing a melody or a structure is different.

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I think the value of precedence is non-existent.

That said, Odessey & Oracle's vinyl A-side is, in my opinion, better than Revolver as a whole, but it's vinyl B-side pales in comparison.

And Revolver has that awesome early morning dream atmosphere, too. And John's songs are incredible.

So, um. To put it simply, Odessey & Oracle is more beautiful, but more silly ("Butcher's Tale" is, for example, way sillier than "Yellow Submarine".). Revolver is slightly blander in spots, but still better overall.

(I'm saying this as someone who ultimately likes Odessey & Oracle more than Revolver, by the way. Hopefully, that makes me more objective, or something.)

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but its vinyl B-side

I seriously don't know where that apostrophe came from.

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I think we're in agreemenet Sinder. Whether you like one or the other better is, obviously, a matter of opinion. I just don't understand the "It's better because it came first" thing. And, as usual, just a good-natured debate on my part.

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And damn it, I'll never understand why "I'll Call You Mine" wasn't on Odessey & Oracle. That's way better than anything on the B-side.

I believe The Zombies aren't as appreciated because they were more uncool, and everyone jumped on the Beatles bandwagon.

In any case, "Odessey & Oracle" should at least have been in the Top 40 of Acclaimed Music.

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"Butcher's Tale" sillier than "Yellow Submarine"?? That's such a ridiculous statement. They're two completely different songs; one's in a minor key, the other is major. And compare the lyrics:

"And I have seen a friend of mine
Hang on the wire
Like some rag toy
Then in the heat the flies come down
And cover up the boy"

vs.

"We all live in a yellow submarine,
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine,
We all live in a yellow submarine,
Yellow submarine, yellow submarine"

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I mentioned this in another thread but fans of O+O should listen to the Bee Gee's- 1st. I'm pretty positive any Zombies fan will at least like it.

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It's because "Butcher's Tale" descends into self-parody. Whereas you can't even expect anyone to take "Yellow Submarine" seriously.

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I mean, listen to 02:14. WTF is that OOOOOOOOH SPOOOOOOKY sound effect?

That said, I still hate "Yellow Submarine".

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I will agree that A Butcher's Tale is the weakest track on the album. Not because of the lyrics, in my opinion, but because it breaks the mood of the album.

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ChrisF, have you listened to bonus tracks? If so, how many are on your version?

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I think the weakest track is Friends of Mine.

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I have the 30th anniversary edition, which includes the mono and stereo version of each song. The only bonuses are an alternate versions of A Rose for Emily and Time of the Season and the backing track for Care of Cell 44. I've not heard any other songs by the Zombies other than She's Not There and Tell Her No, which are played on oldies stations.

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Actually John, one of the reasons I love this album so much is because of songs like "Friends Of Mine." I just think it's such a sweet song. And when the backing vocalists start saying the names of couples who, I assume, are friends of the band, I just think it's wonderful. And the "Ah!" that ends the song!

And "This Will Be Our Year" is kinda like "Here Comes The Sun" to me. Such a hopeful, optimistic song.

And "Time of the Season" is the sexiest song ever recorded.

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English wimps aren't sexy. Ever.

But it's an awesome song, yeah.

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That's fine. That song just sounds so much like there early stuff which is fine but it seems out of place on that album.

I had my cousin sing This Will Be Our Year at our wedding ceremony.

The Zombies have a bunch of other pretty great songs. I suggest this album. Zombie Heaven is ok, but this collection is all in their original mono form just like if you were putting the 45's on your record player back then: http://www.amazon.com/Singles-Collection-As-Bs-1964-1969/dp/B000042O15

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I've always preferred stereo, even when it sounds worse.

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Stereo is fine these days, but it sounds like a tennis match on old 60's records. In some cases it was never meant to be that way and in most cases it sounds better than hearing some producer experiment with early stereo. I want to hear the band not the producer dinking around with new technology.

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Why does everyone go on about mono and stereo? There's only a handful of albums I've seen ever that have both versions...

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I'm definitely not an audiophile, but I was actually listening to my Zombies album tonight, and I actually can hear a horn on the mono version that isn't there on the stereo version. What's the deal? I thought it was just sound quality or something.

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ChrisF, there are a ton of things stripped from those early stereo recordings.

Midaso, they still are all available on LP and you are seeing more and more deluxe edition CDs come with mono tracks. A lot of times they aren't marked as mono either. Usually when you see an album with "singles" or "original hits" in the title the tracks are in mono. Not always but it's a good way to search for mono on cd.

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Found this here:http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=4097

According to Argent, he was told by Paul Weller that Odessey and Oracle is his favorite album of all time. Bassist Chris White added in the February 2008 Mojo interview: "The Foo Fighters said in a recent Rolling Stone they listen to it most mornings. Tom Petty's keyboardist said to me, 'You guys don't realize how important that record's been. As far as we're concerned there's Sgt. Pepper and Odessey and Oracle."

And apparently Dave Grohl said it was his favorite album of all time.

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It does sound like a tennis match sometimes, I'll give you that, John. But the idea of hearing something different in each ear has an irresistible pull for me. (Sometimes I wish I had 3 or 4 ears, albeit only if the music that I listened to could keep up with me.)

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Why? If you go into the studio or to a concert you don't get that effect. Why should a recording be any different? Today it doesn't sound so obvious but I still don't understand how it caught on. Just think if quadraphonic sound became popular. To me, stereo is a gimmick that stuck.

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Why should a recording be any different?


Because it's cool to have 2 ears, and we might as well use that to its full potential.

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Great album (I don't like 'Changes' very much though). Anyone like their earlier stuff? I stumbled upon some greatest hits I had of their other stuff but I don't like most of it...

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Their early stuff is hit and miss but there are a bunch of really great songs. She's Not There, Tell Her No, I Must Move, Is This the Dream, She's Coming Home... all great. A few others are good and the rest are just ok.

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About Butcher's Tale, I disagree it is the weakest song on the album (it's Friends of Mine for me). At first the song did not impress either, but now that I've heard the album 50+ times, it has become a favorite.

And it is not silly at all. It's about first world war, where long and useless battles in saps (I think that is the English word here?) took place. We're talking about end of the sixties here, flower power, love and peace time, so maybe the band just wants to make a point that even a butcher prefers to cut his meat instead of having to fight and join a slaughtery on a battle field?

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Jesus, Andre.... 50+ listens? Impressive!

Yeah, that bullshit about "Butcher's Tale" being the weakest song is just that... bullshit. "Friends of Mine", with it's bouncy rhythm and sugary, lovey-dovey lyrics, definitely gets that honor (it's just a tad too "cornball" for me). That said though, I wouldn't remove it from the album.

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Well, I had downloaded the deluxe edition, the one with the 12 tracks in both mono and stereo outfit. That counts double, right? You're at 50+ easy, when you're infected with the O&O virus, like I am

Last weekend, I finally got 2 CDs and some books from amazon. Yesterday, I posted a separate thread on one of the CD's I got from the La's, and the other CD is a 2001 remastered version of O&O. Besides the 12 original tracks, there are 16 additional tracks. These are all fine, but can not compete with the 12 divine ones, so I still prefer the downloaded version. Well, have to listen to those 16 a bit more to make that statement a definite one.

It's funny, I had heard of The Zombies and Time of the Season, but had no clue what brilliant album they had made. And now that album is on its way to become one of my all-time favorites ... life is full of surprises!

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I'll say it before, and I'll say it again.... the album is amazing.

Glad you like it, Andre!

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You guys have heard 'Forever Changes' by Love right? I discovered this recently and think I slightly prefer it to O&O

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Yeah Forever Changes is a masterpiece. andmoreagain is amazing. Had these guys continued past 2 albums they might have made it big. Lead man had some issues though, he was always wanting to be the best, knowing he couldnt out play hendrix and couldnt out write Lennon and McCarthy. Its too bad, at the time they had a huge cult following like the velvet underground. a band to witch they had aspired to be.

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O&O I give I have to give props to. In many eyes it was the british answer to Pet sounds.

4.5/5
It's a great album, but when you compare it to similar albums like Sgt peppers, Forever Changes, pet sounds, Illinios.

It falls short, but ends up in the company of Chutes too narrow, Feels, Neutral Milk hotel. which isnt bad company at all. Just not top 100 company

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Count me in the group who love this album. It's in my top 5 and I got it 6 years ago, based strictly on its rank at 96 on a '95 Mojo list of the greatest albums of all time. That list was probably my first exposure to "acclaimed" music. I've recommended the album to anyone who would listen.

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Its a pretty recommendable ablum. Not much to hate if yourinto pop music

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Okay. I have now given O&O a good number of listens. I went in knowing only three of the songs, and really admiring "Care of Cell 44" and "This Will Be Our Year."

It is a very well written album. There were a number of songs that upon first listen I did not initially care for, but after the 2d listen were completely stuck in my head (and in a good way). (E.g., "A Rose For Emily" and "Brief Candles.)

Colin Blunstone has a lovely, somewhat wistful voice. In many ways it reminds me of Joe Pernice's.

There is a consistent tone throughout the album until the last song. ("Time of the Season" has always struck me as a funny song. The most prominent lyric: "What's Your name? Who's your daddy? Is he rich like me?" is almost creepy. I always imagine an older hippie dude trying to seduce a too-young girl. Nice organ solo, though.) I am trying to figure out whether that is good or bad. I suppose, for me, it is an album that I might want to pull out only at certin times and in certain moods. My most negative comment on the album is that my reaction veers from "that's beautiful" to "that's a little too fey" even within a single listen. Particularly during "Beechwood Park."

Now, fey is not an adjective I like to use usually. I don't expect or want this to be a rock album. It is baroque pop. So I use the word "fey" with a great deal of reservation as a substitute for a quality I can't quite put my finger on.

That however, is the worst I can say about it. There is a whole hell of a lot positive to say about it. It is an album that is currently outside my top-100, but knocking at the door and could enter on more listens.

Anthony, thanks for introducing this very good album to me.