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It's time to start discussing the plans for our annual end of year polls. While we typically wait until after the year is over to start these, I think we should definitely plan who will host, what the format will be, etc.
While I ran the songs poll last year with a somewhat complex two-round format and the results turned out pretty well, I'm in favor of simpler polls this year to encourage participation. That format encouraged strategic voting to the point where it was hard to tell what many voters' actual favorites were.
I love two stage polls, especially for the EOY songs. It's the best way for me to catch up with the music of today.
On the one hand, I prefer open voting, as personal lists are the most interesting lists. On the other hand, I don't like strategic voting and that will happen if the voting is not secret...
Last year's poll was only open in stage one, wasn't it?
While I think the songs poll last year gave a great result and I too liked the discovery aspect of it, the main issue I have with it looking back is that the voting was set up so people had to be strategic.
I think if we do the two-round format again this year, it should be in a way where the first round is people posting their actual, full lists. Then whoever runs the list would apply a point system to rank the songs, but the order after the first round would be kept secret and a certain amount of nominees (say, 50) would be presented unordered to second round voters. Then the second round would work similarly to how it did last year, where people allocate a certain number of points across the nominees and vote via email.
This way, we would get to see everyone's true favorites while still giving people to discover new favorites among the nominees. I hope this proposal didn't come off as too confusing; it's actually way simpler than last year's format but would produce just as good of a result, I think.
Any other thoughts? Anyone want to volunteer to host one of these?
i f nobody volunteers, I can do the album poll, but not before january.
why not set a deadlinat january 15 ?
+that new idea: let's vote for our favourite EOY critics' list as wel... ummm, too.
I like Jackson's idea of keeping the results of the nomination round hidden, and just showing all nominated albums as equal.
Yes, but who's gonna manage it ?
I'll do the 90s poll starting in february, so I'd appreciate if someone volunteered for the EOY
I said I'd do the albums it if nobody volunteers but in that case I won't have time for a complicated 2 round affair, it'll be the classic pazz jop format
And I'd really appreciate if someone else could do the job
I would be happy to host one of the polls (even the 2-stage songs poll... and I don't think the albums poll needs 2 stages - a simple 1-stage submission by email (to keep it secret) should suffice, as long as there's a recommendations thread to give exposure to lesser-known albums and as long as individual lists get posted following the overall results). It's a bit late here in Glasgow and I will do another post about this tomorrow, because I have questions about: timeframes, which formula to use (if any), the number of songs to go through to the final round (if I'm hosting the songs poll), etc. I just wanted to put my hand up. Comments / suggestions are very welcome, of course.
I totally agree that individual lists are more interesting than the overall results, so I guess a public albums poll would be better in that case. It could lead to strategic voting though, because if it’s going to be a Pazz&Jop-style poll again of allocating points to 10 albums, then people might start giving albums less or more points than they had initially planned as they see the lists and point-allocations of other AMers coming in. Would it not be better to use a formula to assign points? (Or is this paranoia about strategic voting a bit OTT and silly?)
I would like to host the songs poll (I’m not sure I could do both). People seem to like the idea of a 2-stage songs poll where the first stage is public and the second stage secret. As for the number of songs going through to the second stage: 50 seems a bit low (it won’t give enough underrated gems a chance to get through) but 100 seems a bit much. Maybe 75? I would appreciate some suggestions about how to decide/calculate which songs should go through to the second round. Simply putting the songs with the most amount of votes through doesn’t seem fair (the underrated argument again). Do I use a simple scale of allocating points to people’s top 20 songs, for example:
#1 = 20 points
#2 = 19
#3 = 18
#18 = 3
#19 = 2
#20 = 1
But some people might feel that there should be a bigger gap of points between, say, their #1 and #3, so maybe the points system currently used for the decade polls is better?:
#1 = 50 points
#2 = 40
#3 = 35
#4 = 30
#5 = 25
#6 = 20
#7 = 18
#8 = 16
#9 = 14
#10 = 12
#11 = 10
#12 = 9
#13 = 8
#14 = 7
#15 = 6
#16 = 5
#17 = 4
#18 = 3
#19 = 2
#20 = 1
Or should I use a LN formula like the one Henrik uses in the EOY critics spreadsheets (or some other fancy formula)?
And when we get to the second stage, would people be happy to use the same voting method as we did last year?:
Sorry Dan I'm leaving tomorrow morning on vacation so I can't read your long post !
Hope there's someone (as somebody said) to manage the album poll.
We could do either albums from 1 to 15 january and songs from 15 to 31, or have both poll running the whole month through
OK, it’s probably best to try to keep things simple, so this is what I propose for the songs poll...
Stage 1: Anyone who wants to participate in stage 1 posts a list (preferably ranked) of 10-20 songs. Lists of more than 20 songs are welcome, but only the first 20 will count as “nominations” for the second stage. The songs with the most amount of nominations (i.e. the songs that make the most appearances on lists) will progress to stage 2. Somewhere between 50 and 100 songs will progress to stage 2, depending on the amount of nominations. If, for example, there are 67 songs with 3 nominations or more and 134 songs with 2 nominations or more, then only the 67 songs with at least 3 nominations will go through. I will allow participants to change their lists if they discover other songs they want to nominate after posting an initial list.
Stage 2 : This will be a Pazz&Jop-style voting system where anyone who wants to participate should allocate 300 points to 30 songs (with a maximum of 30 points and a minimum of 3 points allocated to each song). Lists should be emailed to me to keep the results a surprise. I thought that having to vote for 30 songs instead of 10 or 20 might help to ensure that people listen to as many of the nominated songs as possible and not just the ones they already know.
I hope this makes sense. Any objections?
Still no volunteers for albums ?
If it's not the case I will manage the album poll.
It will be a 1-round poll;
I'm hesitating between a simple, decade-like poll, and a pazz & jop format
1) The former would allow us to post 20 album lists, and lists would be public
2) the latter will be the classic p&j thing : 10 album lists allocating points and secret ballots
i'm in favor of the first solution (simpler, more open, but secret ballots by email will be allowed too)
If there is no objection I'll chose the first
BTW, in january I'll also open a new thread regarding the voting system for the 90s poll.
Nicolas, as it looks like nobody else will be able to manage the albums poll I won't mind taking it on in addition to the songs poll. It will be a strtaightforward 1-stage poll, so it shouldn't be too much extra work for me - I could use the same layout etc. as for the songs poll. You have already kindly offered to do the 90s polls from February onwards (which will probably take up enough of your free time) so unless you now really want to do this albums poll it seriously won't be a problem for me to manage it. Just let me know.
Thanks Dan. We could start next week when everybody (including yours truly) is back from vacation. I'm in the moutains and having much fun
^ No problem Nic. It's the least I could do after discovering so many great things from your lists, comments and recommendations this year.
I will start both the albums and songs polls on 1st Jan.