Thank you John I have your parts now.

As I expected the puzzle grows.
The pivot bolt John sent me has a 7/16 20tpi thread. No! not UNF, 20tpi can still be cycle thread. The length is slightly different too.

The nut is interesting as I can't find another size to suggest it's not 15mm AF. 3/8BS is just too sloppy. Do we have 20mm AF and 15mm AF Nuts now on a M20?

Next observation is the collar that does not have a notch, this looks like it would be hard to fit the spring.

There was mention of different versions of the stand, but I haven't seen this in part numbers.

I don't want to make bespoke stands, so I'm a little worried about tearing into this at the moment.

As it happens Anita has given me about two weeks worth of aluminium to machine, so no change of slipping in steel parts between jobs.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Not 20mm
It is in fact 25/32” a size that harks back to the beginning of BSA Motor Bicycles, and in fact used on many parts from circa 1912 and on.
Rear stand bolts foot rests cylinder bolts on earlier models, early gearbox fillers etc.

The valve lifter spindle housing comes to mind on the M20...and the crank nut on the timing side?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Front wheel spindle lock nut, also the brake shoe anchor stud nut all measure around 19.95mm. They just don't lend themselves to nice fractions.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

I've been allowed to play this weekend and I was hoping to do a lot more. It's not just about making the parts, it's trying to do it in an affordable way. Sadly this is all I have managed.

Using John's pivot bolt supplied it looks to be about 1mm longer on it's thick section that the bolt in the drawings. That change should make it a little snugger fitting once I make them. The internal sleeve could be notched or unnotched, I don't think it makes much difference other than price to make.

So we have a deployed picture and stored position picture mocked up. I think it will work.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

It seems that this puzzle gets worse, now I have been kindly informed there are two ranges of movement for the Knuckle. 90 Degrees as in the Tech. Section drawings. Also 115 degrees, for the earlier bikes with the small rack on the back.

The puzzle, which version would be more popular?

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Well, there are far more later bikes so that type would probably have the highest demand...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Thanks Ian.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

A little more progress on this project. It's been a fight all the way with parts not matching drawings and parts not matching parts.

Not far from completion, but I've been pulled away to work on other jobs. The spring still needs to be drawn up for manufactures to quote on.

Without the notch, the stand would work without the spring.



Testing the fit.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Whilst checking over the parts this morning I decided I really should mock this up on a frame to prove the Tech section numbers work. They don't! A small adjustment will solve the problem of the knuckle eating the frame. Even then I don't feel that the deployed stand is far enough forward to be stable. The funny thing is, in it's stored position it would lift 10 degrees or more past the clip. This has me thinking it could go forward by 10 degrees and still keep it's range of movement as in the drawing?

Has anyone got any thoughts on this?

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Mark would swiveling the clamp round alter the angle? Here's how mine is set up.

I see you have a same period rear frame as mine! No foot rest lugs and the early field stand lug (1940) Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks for posting the picture Ron, it looks like yours lands in about the same place as mine. I just feel if the stand was deployed a little further forward it improve stability.
I have tried playing around with different positions, but it only get worse. Also it would be touch and as if it could get close enough to be clipped in. So alterations on the Pivot too.

The rear frame I was hoping to use as parts, but it's scrap really. It's a 43 that I trying to build.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Nothing really stable about these stands unless you're on soft ground, or you shut the engine down and park it in gear. If it's parked on a hard surface with the engine ticking over, it's liable to roll forward or back and fall over. DAMHIK:persevere: as old Hans would have said.

It's why I went to great lengths with the little jiffy stand I fitted. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

A little more angle would be good...Unlike Ron I like using the field stand and use it all the time on my M20s, particularly when the bike is fully loaded with camping gear etc. Then it is nearly impossible to get onto the rear stand and if you do manage, it will ultimately damage the stand/pivots etc. anyway..The bike does need to be left in gear as Ron notes....
If the bike is on softer ground the cleverness of the design becomes apparent...The high mounting point means the weight of the bike is primarily through the wheels and not the foot of the stand...I've been at a couple of events where I've just parked up and then watched the owners of more modern bikes help each other find bits of wood, pieces of stone etc. to put under their side stands...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

This is the 10 degree shift that I think will help stop your bikes falling of the stand.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

That would be an improvement...Personally, mine has never fallen over but it seems Rons has..When you've finished them to your satisfaction let me know or post on the forum...I'll have one off you....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi
Currently my stand stick comes forward until contact with the back of the footrest - meaning the machine rests against it be it at a slightly increased angle of lean
Coupled with first gear engaged - it’s going no where & is very stable

Ron
The stand frame lug is a very late - dec 1940 or very early Jan 41 addition & it seems introduced at the time of the deletion of the valenced rear guard & introduction of the simplified ribbed centre rear guard
An original 19 Jan 41 project I had -had a frame lug, ribbed rear guard - the valence rear guard does not permit the use of the frame lug rear section - I discovered this
It also had no rear pillion foot rest fittings being bare like marks

Br
Job

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

[' Currently my stand stick comes forward until contact with the back of the footrest ..']

I'm not sure how you manage that John..I don't think mine will go that far forward...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I remember Ron...Terrible to see a grown man become emotional after getting his paint job scratched...:persevere: Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Well, you know Ron... a very sensitive person :upside_down_face:

After a very late night re-machining the knuckles and pivots.
More Problems!
Easy one first. I thought the long field stand, the one that mounts above the seat spring. Was mounted with the knuckle below the frame tube?
The short version mounted below the seat spring had the knuckle above the frame tube?

This now leads onto the length of the stands. Hopefully there are not four lengths

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Yes Mark the long field stand is under the frame rail (see official drawing) The short stand is above.

I've just taken a couple of pix of my original, to show the angle I have it at and the max movement forward. Total length of the pole to the end of the point is 25". Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron,

Just read every post "Field Stand" now I'm even more confused!
Ian writes that his NOS one has a tube length of 543mm
And yours works out to be around 560mm
I have interpreted these length based on actual post dimensions as everyone measures from different points.

So this is for the long stand.

Your stand worries me Ron as the big washer at the bottom looks to be 90 degrees out of rotation. The flat would make more sense if it was aligned with the bike.

It does look like the same kit of bits could be made to suit short and long, the only difference required is the length of the tube.
Oh what fun and games.

One thing for sure is that the tech section drawings are misleading despite the intension to help.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

A Box of bits about to go for heat treatment.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Hi Ian
It’s possible my stick is bent, worn or both
But
It works well for me as when it contacts the rear of the footrest - it provides a very stable position
With 1st gear engaged - it’s not going anywhere
Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

The short stand has a complete disc at the lower end...I think the long stand is made so that the cutaway part of the disc gives more ground clearance and to stop the front edge catching on obstacles off road...The position of the cut away can be seen on the factory drawing..As the short stand is horizontal when 'clipped up' and the foot is much further from the ground no cut away is required....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Has any one got the dimensions from an original spring clip for the field stand?
The distance between the stand and face of the clip that the bolt goes through.
Also how much below the center of the bolt hole and the top of the stand tube?

Thanks Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

The stand's not actually horizontal but here's a pic of the the 'short' one showing the full disc...I've got a NOS field stand clip I can lend you as a pattern...Contact me off forum with your postal details if you want to borrow it..There's also a mounting plate for the clip which is then attached to the frame. The purpose of that is to 'tilt' the clip to the right angle to align it with the leg of the stand when it is raised..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Ian and Mark,

The photo that you posted is of the valanced mudguard, when the un valanced is used , the field stand is higher up. Like JoB posted earlier on in the thread. There are 2 different swivels, the one that Mark is making and one that fits on the Lug on the Frame. Years ago Henk sent me photos of them both, but at the moment I can't find them. I need an early one fitted to the lug.

Dave

There is more information in the technical section. http://www.wdbsa.nl/field%20stand.htm

If you look at the panier drawing you can see that the flat part of the disc is facing the road (for the reasons Ian pointed out) which is exactly how mine is. As I said in my previous post, I measured the total length of the post including the bit inside the swivel. But I will double check it in the morning. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ian, email sent.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

I just measured my stand again from the center of the pivot bolt to the point = 23 3/4" which according to my calculations is 1/8" longer than the drawing in the technical section. The stand was on the bike when I acquired it 33 years ago, so I'm quite sure it's not a repro. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks to Ian a spring clip turned up in the post this morning.
It looks like it was originally hand bent, so I guess everyone will be unique.

Art work isn't my strong point, but this is about as good as I can get. The main dimensions are close so it should hold the stand in the same place.

The next problem will be getting a spring maker to reproduce it.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Just got some parts back from heat treatment and it's time to start cataloguing them.

I seem to be struggling to find part numbers for some of the bits.

Does anyone have a full list of parts and numbers for the field stand?

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

15-6053 Field stand pivot bolt
66-4710 Field stand assembly
15-6045 Field stand half clamp, threaded
15-6046 Field clamp half clamp, not threaded
15-6052 Field stand spring inside pivot
15-6056 Field stand pivot pin collar
31-4197 Field stand clip

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Ron, the one that really alluding me is the knuckle.
Good to have a number for the assembly.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Hi
Yesterday I received a complete & original clamp on short stand assy
I date this from late 39 to late 1940 when the lug on frame & ribbed non valenced guard were first seen - December 40/ Jan 41 in my estimation
The first item I looked at was the knuckle & the faces where the pivot stops
From what I can see - the knuckle is same as the later long stand with the sharper leading edges & not the flat face seen on short stand used with a fixed frame lug

I can only think this allows for different angle of use according to fixing arrangement on the frame

Just my observations- so it’s possible that the later knuckle was in fact the original early type, replaced & then reintroduced with pannier frames & bags

Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Thanks for the information John, it would make sense to reduce the number of parts in the different versions.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Hi John,

Just wondering, has yours got any part numbers stamped on them? The knuckle that I have got, has 66-4722 stamped on it. I'm sure it's early/ late one like Mark is making.
Has anyone got any good photos, of how the stand is installed on the frame lug, not the clamp on style?

Dave

email (option): jeepfinger@blueyonder.co.uk

Hi Mark,
A couple of photos of my knuckle with part number, and the angle on the sides. Hope this can help?

Dave

email (option): jeepfinger@blueyonder.co.uk

Hi dave
I can check mine tomorrow & see if anything is stamped there

I know someone with an nos knuckle flat face type - I hope to persuade him to part with it as I believe this is for the lug on frame type
Could be completely wrong but !
Br
Job

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi John,

Thanks, just trying to help, or hinder. Hats off to Mark trying to get these made.

We could do with help from Henk or Bastian. Hope that you manage to get that Knuckle.

Dave

email (option): jeepfinger@blueyonder.co.uk

I have to say a BIG thank you to everyone who has helped with this project so far.
It's an interesting puzzle with a few misleading mistakes on previous work.
The chamfers have to be at 90 degrees to the stop faces or the frame could be eaten.
As they are all mounted on the same frame tube, I suspect the deployed stop could be in the same place for all versions.
For the stored position the stop does not need to make contact as the clip holds it in place.
Hopefully I'll have a quote for making this clip this afternoon.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

This is an interesting post and I'm looking forward to the finished product..As this is going to be more accurately made than the original I'm inclined to fit one myself (I don't have any problem with good quality replicas)...

However, would it be possible to have a 'making a field stand 2' post?...With my rural internet connection speeds I'm having to wait for it to load!....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com