https://youtu.be/AHzlHcM-Uo8 good vision and best wishes to the whole forum!

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

Molto Bella la tua BSA!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPVY1sI9mKA

Salutti!

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

thank's

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

Thanks to all of you in the forum for viewing the video, should you need some details of the motorcycle either as a video or photos you can contact me on the email.

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

Molto bello Marco!
Here's mine (ex Ron Pier)



ciao, Sven

email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com

Nice looking outfit Sven, do you not use a front lower sidecar fitting?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Rob,

Thanks, but all credits have to go to Ron as he built it.....
I do have the front lower fitting and I should use it as I've noticed some instability but it needs some adjustment to fit well.
I've bought a second Norton sidecar chassis from Ireland a few years ago (you actually mentioned that one Rob when it was on E-bay)and I have plans to change that frame with the one on the picture. It has the original spring leaves and the original connector for the backside close to the rear axle but before I start I want to know the frame no that is under the front right leave spring. I'm still looking for a file where Norton sidecar frame no's can be dated......

Cheers, Sven

email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com

It does look nice Sven, I want it back:smile: When I had it attached to my 16H, I made up this adjustable rod arrangement for the lower front.

The 'C' springs at the back are correct for a 16H military outfit (ordinary leaf springs were fitted to the M20 outfits) but I had to reset the front springs so that the chair sat level (fortunately I'd watch the springsmith doing my truck springs on numerous occasions). Ron


Messy job! How are they holding up Sven?


Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I've spent a lot of time looking at the old Norton ledgers. Although there are machines mentioned as supplied with sidecars, there are no chassis numbers included and no sidecar register has survived. Generally, the sidecar type is mentioned in the comments and the 'Sidecar' column used for other details.

The tax system in the UK, where purchase tax was applied to motor vehicles but not to accessories mean that even purchasers who intended to fit a Norton sidecar would likely buy it separately and have it fitted by the dealer. There must have been a works record of the chassis, for guarantee purposes but the chair number had no legal significance and the books probably didn't survive the AMC takeover.

Would I be right in thinking that M.20 sidecar outfits were only used by the RAF and not the Army? I have a photo somewhere of an M.20 with a sidecar which carries an RAF roundel on the nose of the sidecar. I believe that the sidecar M.20s were fitted with 400 (WM3) x 18 rims and tyres.

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

All the evidence seems to point that way, Keith, with WD16Hs too. The RAF and RN had some 16Hs with box as well as passenger bodies but if any outfits were used by the army then they were perhaps for assessment or via the Home Office etc.

I have seen no contract evidence of deliveries, nor any War Establishments that could have included them.

I concur! And unlike the 16H which all had sidecar lugs, the M20's were only supplied with lugs for the RAF contracts. The sidecars used for both makes was the Swallow Model 8. I have a picture that clearly shows 19" wheels on an RAF 16H outfit, but I can't remember if they also fitted the 400 x 18" wheels and tyres? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

If you refer to the Imperial War Museum photographs referenced KID 5016, KID 5044 and KID 5038 these show an M.20 with sidecar lugs, sidecar and under a microscope the Dunlop Tyres read 400 x 18.

Whilst I understood the sidecar bodies were Swallow Model 8s I was under the impression that the motorcycle manufacturer supplied their own sidecar chassis onto which the Swallow body was secured. In that regard Nortons I believe used their Model G sidecar chassis for the 16H sidecar machines.

If it is any help I have a photo of an RAF M.20 and sidecar taken in the middle east which has painted on the front mudguard RAF 87802. It appears to be an early machine as it is fitted with an 8" headlamp which in this instance had no blackout mask.

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

Hello sven, beautiful side, and congratulations to ron !, but it is a viper ?, Keith, I do not know if they were also fitted tires 18 ", this I can assure that it came directly with the configuration that you see in the video, it is not never been modified in any way! In my motorcycle what is not original or missing are: missing the mask for the headlight, (I have, but since I use the motorcycle I could not circulate the night), the carburetor that mounts is one of the 'vegetable garden (has the fuel spray of the minimum and the motorcycle runs better) but I have two amal perfectly revised and working, one with flange and the other with circular attack, the dynamo mounted is a magneti marelli, more energy, but I two perfect lucas, the magdino has the exit of the spark plug on the inside of the cylinder, but even in this case I have two spare, I miss, and I do not have, the horn lucas (mounts a magnets marelli, the sidestand , I have the clips but I do not have the auction, and the back light. everything else is original. to restore it I dismantled piece by piece and I know it in detail. I posted the video because when I was in the process of restoration (more than anything because my uncle had repainted and the color did not match), I could not find details that I needed. In the video in principle, even if it is not actually turned into hd you see how the motorcycle must be! for further details you can also visit my facebook profile, just look for Marco fabrizio Leo italy iglesias, and you will find all the photos you want on the motorcycle! if you like you can also leave a like, I'm glad, again, greetings to all! Marco

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

Here are most of the sidecar pictures I have...













Cheers, Sven

email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com

Again Kieth I concur about the M20 outfits and 400x 18 tyres, It's the 16H tyres I'm unsure about. However, unlike the 16H the M20 solo's didn't have sidecar lugs, so the RAF were supplied different frames for their M20 outfits. You are partially right about the chassis, Norton used there own and BSA used the Swallow chassis.

Marco is correct about my sidecar which is now owned by Sven. The 'Variable Pitch Propeller Co' went into sidecar production after the war and produced a near identical ally lightweight copy of the Swallow 8 which was called the 'VP Viper'

I had it marked as an army postal unit......We can't all be front line.:relaxed: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Typing together then Sven. I've got all those pictures except the one with the Yankie photographer which I've now saved. :+1:
Here are a few more. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Later RAF 16H sidecar outfits did indeed have the 4.00 x 18 tyres. I believe that it is documented in the spare parts listings. I'll post some more info when I get home.

Hi Keith, I would like to see your picture please.

It would appear that some RAF 16Hs had 18inch and others 19inch wheels, but because of the RAF numbering system we haven't managed to link any original photograph to any particular contract, it could be that there was an intention after a certain year to use 18s on outfits and 19s on solos but as all 16Hs had sidecar lugs?, RAF workshops may have moved sidecars from one machine to another as time went by?

This picture appears to have 400-18s



This book says they should be 3.25-19, note the different gear ratios when a sidecar is fitted.







This RAF solo book (no mention of sidecars) says 26-3.25, is that a 19?

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Beautiful photos, I had them all above all the m20 with buggy and canopy that ron I sent you sent and thanks to which I could understand how the hood was going, unfortunate not to have the same picture taken by the part of the carriage cmq, the others however refer to the norton, beautiful, really beautiful!

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

A curiosity, do you know that the mark light mounted on the fender of the carriage in the picture with the shooting actor is marked Ford? I have the metal body but I miss the front frame and the lens, is found by mv spares in australia but it costs me too much!

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

Ron Pier

Typing together then Sven. I've got all those pictures except the one with the Yankie photographer which I've now saved. :+1:
Here are a few more. Ron

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

Here is some similar BSA M20 Data.





There is an RAF M20 combination spares list for contracts C10655 and C14052 which says WM3-18 for front and rear and 400-18 for the sidecar.

An Admiralty contract BSA combination spares list that says WM3-19 front and back and 26-3.25 for the sidecar.

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Marco, mine is certainly a Lucas WD one, but I have to check the exact type when I'm back home tonight or perhaps Ron knows?
I have mounted a L-WD-MCT1A as rear light with the 'glowing nail' black out cover, of which I have 2 types; one with the text transversal on the cover and one with the text in longitudial direction.



Cheers, Sven

email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com

keith chandler

Ron Pier

Typing together then Sven. I\'ve got all those pictures except the one with the Yankie photographer which I\'ve now saved. :+1:
Here are a few more. Ron

The first photo of the M.20 and sidecar - under the magnifying glass you can read 400 - 18 on the rear tyre just under the silencer.

All the photos of the 16Hs on this thread that I have seen so far show Norton Model G sidecar chassises.

As a matter of interest has anyone looked at the Matchless G3 sidecar machine mounting a Boyes Anti-Tank rifle - Imperial War Museum Photo H3983?

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Here's a 16H with 19" wheels.

What lamp and actor are you referring to Marco? Ron



This should be the Lucas WD sidelamp on Sven's bike.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ron,

Marco means the picture that I posted and you didn't have;



I have to check the exact type (it's engraved on top of it)light it is but I thought you remembered it..

Sven

email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com

So you guys obviously have a high res image of this picture, to read FORD on the lamp. It must surely have been taken from another vehicle?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Rob Miller

keith chandler

Ron Pier

Typing together then Sven. I\\\'ve got all those pictures except the one with the Yankie photographer which I\\\'ve now saved. :+1:
Here are a few more. Ron

The first photo of the M.20 and sidecar - under the magnifying glass you can read 400 - 18 on the rear tyre just under the silencer.

All the photos of the 16Hs on this thread that I have seen so far show Norton Model G sidecar chassises.

As a matter of interest has anyone looked at the Matchless G3 sidecar machine mounting a Boyes Anti-Tank rifle - Imperial War Museum Photo H3983?

Hi Keith

Do you mean the V twin? John Tinley has a replica of it, there are a couple of pictures here.

http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3155626639&frmid=16&msgid=1366842&cmd=show

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

Have another look Keith, its a Matchless V twin not a G3 single.

I've sent you some pictures.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Ron, the lamp "mark light" in the stand of this photo, is marked F of Ford.

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

Sorry Marco, I think I'm missing something in communication. You mention a 'mark light' which I think we would call a 'side light'. You also mention an 'F' script on the lamp body. Is this the one in the photo or the one you have?......It's probably me, but I'm confused. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

Ron, the side light in the picture where you see the man with the camera is the same that I have on my sidecar and has an engraved "F" that is going to ford!

email (option): marcoleo1967@gmail.com

This is one I have put by for my Big4.

I would guess this is the correct sidecar lamp for a British combination, its marked L for Lucas, there is another similar version made by Butler, but as the rest of the electrics are Lucas this one seems the most appropriate. The reduced size lens complies with the wartime blackout regulations, I have another cloudy white glass lens which could be a further light reduction but I'm not sure when that would date from?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Rob I'm sure that is exactly the same as the one I fitted to Sven's sidecar. I have a feeling that they used the Lucas 1130 side light on early Big 4's. But this is the later type that I have on my 1942 Big 4.


Sorry Marcos I'm still confused. Are you saying that you can read what is written on the lamp in that picture with the Yankie photographer??

Regards Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Here's a picture of my sidecar 'front'light, a Lucas L-WD-SLR with a L-WD cover



and here my 2 black out covers; the top one is marked L-WD-MCT1 and the bottom one L-WDT1



slightly different..



Any additional info is very welcome!

Cheers, Sven

email (option): snvosselman@gmail.com

Marco I'm still unsure what sidecar lamp you have or need, but I have this one which is not stamped WD. Email me if interested. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com