I think for most people on this forum, it's not about an investment, it's the joy that comes from learning and restoring. The trick is to minimize one's losses. Dealing in, and restoring, vintage motorcycles must be a hard way to make a living. Sure, we all have those special bikes or rare bits we hope one day to sell at a profit, but overall this business is best viewed as a hobby.

If you really want to make a profit, pull all your bikes down to their component bits and sell these off through Ebay. That's where the money is at.

email (option): cas.vanderwoude@gmail.com

I agree with Cas that the majority, if not all, contributors here are driven by enthusiasm etc. and not primarily by money...

That is because this is pretty much a self selecting site built on enthusiasm..As such though, it is not at all representative of the wider world of old bikes...

I could argue at length over Nigels assessment of what is desirable and what isn't and what are the prospects for various parts of the market...But then we all have a view I'm sure..

It just serves to illustrate this is a hard market to second guess...

I had a spell a few years back where I found my decisions were beginning to be driven by what was best financially and that, I concluded eventually, was not actually why I have old bikes.

I have them because I like old bikes and in reality their value isn't of that much interest...

Unfortunately the 'value' view of the world was making me reject certain ideas/rebuilds/bikes I might have been interested in because the numbers didn't add up...

Fortunately I managed to clear my head of all that and now squander money on the things I am interested in with no real thought of the financial outcome...

It will work out for as long as I can afford it and is, in the end, how things should be IMO...Unqualified enthusiasm and interest in old bikes..

My bikes do have a value so one day I, or someone else, will recover that. On the whole though I'm happy to leave the investment market to the 'commodity dealers' in the old bike world....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Yes we can, and do argue all the time about what is 'collectable' and what is not, that's being human.
I've had a couple of Brough's and i think the OHV models are terrible, but the prices say otherwise.

I have close friends who have bought cars (and bikes) at the 'wrong' time, specifically an MGA and a Healey 3000.
Despite the period of time they have had them, neither have reached the purchase value since.
Were they an investment?
The MGA does get used, the Healey doesn't - it was bought as an investment .........

I am fortunate to be able to more or less buy what i want, but have an inbuilt adversion to paying more than what i think it is worth, ive missed many a bargain as a result.
I do have to keep a bit of an eye to the future value, if only to justify to ourselves the cost of the wheels/chroming/paint job......
I've just bought a C11 - something that i know will cost more to rebuild than its worth, but it was something i fancied...(had one as a kid)

Sure we ignore the hours spent in shed, we have to do!
i don't drink, smoke or gamble and strictly dancing is on TV - so boring fart i am, i disappear into the shed.
Hours better spent that watching TV.

I have long realized that i cannot second guess the stock-market or the value of stuff.
Happy in that fact, i buy what i fancy and keep what i like riding.
My racing days are coming to an end, so Old Bike runs/trials beckon in 2017 ...

- hopefully when i croak, wifey will be able to sell the bikes and give me a decent funeral and/or a good holiday.

There was an episode on Pawn stars in Las Vegas Nevada(not sure if you guys have that show in England?) and a guy brought in a nice WD m20. I think he wanted 5,000 dollars. The pawn owner only wanted to offer 2,500 dollars as that was the only way for him to make a profit! The owner didn't want to sell and I don't blame him. I remember yelling at the the TV saying I'll take it for the 5 as it was nicer looking than mine.

People see my m20 and comment all the time how that thing must be worth a fortune! Then they ask what I paid and was it running!. I say 5,000 dollars broken down then I rebuilt the engine and the transmission and changed all the bearings and tires. Then they ask whats it worth now and I say 5,000. dollars!

email (option): xeon25@hotmail.com

Nigel,

BSA made more WM20's than any other model except the Bantams.
I have a funny feeling that the same would apply to most WW II motorcycles so they could never be considered "rare" And as for interesting you would have to be kidding.
One WM20 is pretty much the same as any other WM20 save the paint job.
Now I have grown to love my M20 to the detriment of the rest of the stable which have fallen into disrepair but I would never call it interesting in any way shape or form.
Now every second WM20 owner will tell you a fabulios history of the "service life" of their mount , about 1% of which might have some resembelance to the reality.
Like the reincarnated who were all princes & kings in a previous life, every WM 20 seems to have had a glorious carer where in reality most of what are still around either never saw active service ( like mine ) or were a mechanical wreck stuck in the back of a government warehouse some where and forgotten about till the warehouse was emptied to make way for community housing and they fell into the hands of people with an interest in military motorcycles.
Those that survived intact were quickly civilianised in most cases with the exception of a very small bunch in the hands of military enthusiasts.

When I start hearing stories like this bike threw a rod, got sent back to RAME and toss in the back room for a few years till there was a desperate shortage when it got fitted with a replacement engine just before the gearbox fell to bits so again it was sent back to RAME when it was repaired and resaigned to a medical ordlery, then I will start believing the stories I hear about everyones "interesting" motorcycle.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

I have always thought that there has been a huge disconnect between truly interesting bikes and monetary value....perceived or actual. Interesting bikes are (IMHO) those representative of changes in social history and from that perspective, bikes such as Broughs and Vincents are really just irrelevant footnotes. On the other hand, the "grey porridge" motorcycles of the 50s and 60s were the means of making Everyman individually mobile for work and play. Most were well designed, reliable and enjoyable to own and ride, and properly looked after remain so. To true enthusiasts, money is only important for BUYING a bike! Buy what you LIKE, as they say in the antiques world.

Buy high, spend lots of money, then sell low. That, my friends, is our lot in life...

Now, tell me how much being part of a worldwide community of wonderful, like-minded people is worth? what would you pay to belong to this exclusive club?

Well, I now have to go to work, on my old WM Wheezer as I do every day. Its a slow ride because invariably someone will want to bend your ear about what you're riding. They will be amazed you ride that thing every day. Maybe I'll get that elusive last accessory I've been chasing - a speeding ticket!

email (option): cas.vanderwoude@gmail.com

FWIW Harry Beenham , a multi millionaire rode a surplus LE Velocette every dau to work from St Ives , where every second car was a Bentley to Chippendale.
His one concession was to fit it with a canvas oil skin lap rug.
Every day rain hail or shine, originally bare headed then finally wearing a WWII surplus helmet & goggles.
Riding atire was a pair of odd plastic "roman sandals".
When he died it took over a month to sell off his hoard.
It was the biggest auction of surplus WWII supplies since the 50's
I got sent there to bid on radio valves, some of which went for over $ 2000 each for a friend ( no he did not buy any ) but we digress.
However there were something like 20 or so LE velos and pallet loads of bicycles.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Seller: I have receipts for 5000 pounds and have spend 500 hours working on the bike at 25 pounds an hour. A bargain at R7500 pounds.
Buyer: I will have to employ a specialist for 100 hours to overhaul the bike at 50 pounds an hour and spend a further 5000 pounds on parts. I can only offer you R100 pounds to take it away.
The real truth is somewhere in between and depends on how badly you want one or wish to sell one. Just don't buy one as an investment unless, in the most unlikely event, you come across an absolute bargain that no one else has heard about. Also, don't buy one if you intend to employ someone else to maintain it. Certainly buy one if you wish to experience the joy of riding a classic motorcycle when you are not in a hurry.

email (option): pvlietstra at gmail.com

I noticed a WD M20 recently here in parts that didnt get any further than 2000 euro's.
Still a very nice winter project.