Go to the NEW FORUM
The new update is here. I hope it is to your satisfaction.
Thanks for the update! As always, I'm amazed with the work you do to bring it to us!
For the moment, I see that the most acclaimed album of the 2000s, and I'm a bit surprised, is Funeral over Kid A while we might have thought otherwise (and even The Strokes' Is This It is over Kid A, actually, I just realized). Also, as a French, I can't help but see that Suprême NTM is now part of the top 3000, I think it's due to it's presence on the FNAC list that was not counted, no? Well, I think I remember it was not on AM top 3000 before.
I know, for having sent you some of them, that you still have a lot of lists to include, not counting an eventual songs update. If we can help you in any way to catch up with it, let us know.
It seems that the multistyle problem that happened last time is occuring now as well. I see, on Tinariwen page, two "African traditions", two "Ethnic fusion" and two "World fusion". As of now, I don't know if it happened anywhere else.
Where are you with that "style search" you wished to implement in the past? Are you having trouble in classifying every albums on AM?
Edit : Well, actually it seems it happened on other pages. I've just checked a few and there are plenty of styles that are doubled or more.
OK. Nevermind, then.
The 2009 albums have been added, but there's no link on the sidebar? It stops at 2008.
The 2009 link appears for me.
It worked! Thanks for the tip and the update as well.
Wow, some things i notice and others too:
*Funeral at 34
*I thought artists that didn't make lists would have huge drops, but no.
*Liz Phair's Whip-Smart back to the top 3000
*Hounds of Love is a top 200 of all time
*In 2006, Tv on the Radio didn't overtake Joanna Newsom (surprised by this) and Winehouse is not inside the top 10 of the decade (for a close margin)
*PJ Harvey pushes Since i Left You, but Stories didn't have the steam to surpass To Bring You My Love as her most critically-acclaimed album, although Rid of Me jumped a good amount of spots.
*Alligator jumped like 500 positions and is almost making the top 500, Boxer goes all the way up, too.
*Bjork has no longer the best album of 1993, Homogenic came close to overtake Post and Vespertine jumps into the 400 and something.
*Lauryn Hill surpasses Air to have the best album of 98, by one placement.
*Pixie's Doolittle advance and might (deservedly) be part of the top 50 of all time next time around.
*Radiohead advances to become the 6th best of all time, totally ruling the last 15 years.
*Blur's Think Tank advance and their others albums are holding on, eve though i'm kinda sad 13 fell out of the 1000, i really like that album.
*Animal Collective puts every album of them since 2004 inside the top 1000, but Merriweather didn't make the top 100 like i was expecting. 128 is great, though.
*Another: 808s and Heartbreak inside the top 2000 and Graduation back to the top 1000, imagine next year when MBDTF impacts.
*Is my impression or London Calling surpassed Never Mind the Bollocks only this update?
*Although Funeral has risen to number 34 status, Neon Bible is all the way to number 374, even if it did had high placements inside the lists is did.
*Sad to see both Hissing of Summer Lawns and Hejira out of the top 500 and Joni fell as an artist, she needs more all time and this time to the others too, people only include Blue, doing very well inside the top 50.
*Fever to Tell inside the 500 and It's Blitz inside at 700 and something.
*My Morning Jacket's Z makes a nice leap forward.
*Prince's Parade also fell out of the 500 and something to 607.
*Marianne Faithful's Broken English also has a similar drop, 612 not bad either.
*Let it Be at 615: i know some people who won't deal with this very well.
*Well, David Bowie's Young Americans is at number 750 and i can't remember if it was there already... i guess it was and Let's Dance fall out of the top 1000 (i really can't remember if it was inside or bubbling under the top 1000)
*PJ Harvey's White Chalk simply don't move drastically to anywhere since the 2008 update.
*More falls for Laura Nyro, especially Tendaberry that moves out of the top 1300. she's so underrated.
*I really thought Basement Jaxx's Rooty would go as far as top 700 or something and is stalled at number 1448
*Beth Orton falls but at least Trailer Parks avoids Bubbling Under.
*Kings of Leon can make every list of Rolling Stone with every possible album and still won't give them a top 1000 album, so glad.
*Flying Lotus remais inside the top 1800 with Los Angeles.
*Phoenix's It's Never Been Like That made high inside Pitchfork's, but lacking other lists made it stale at number 2947.
There are a lot of things that changed, i'm euphoric and these are the ones i first noticed, maybe you guys could point others too. New entries, falls, jumps and all that stuff.
There are a lot of things that changed, i'm euphoric and these are the ones i first noticed, maybe you guys could point others too. New entries, falls, jumps and all that stuff.
Thanks for the update, Henrik!
On a sad note, 1999 fell out of the top 200 and Prince dropped to 7th place on the artist list.
I'm thrilled that BloodFlowers is now in the top 3000, though! Hooray for Kaleidoscope bubbling under and A Kiss in the Dreamhouse scoring a top 3000 spot, too!
Thanks for the update Henrik! I've lost a huge amount of my music collection.. it happened two or three months ago, so i was expecting this update to start collecting them all over again, especially the 2000s albums. Now i can restart! God knows how i want them back and the new ones that made this update. You help a lot of us, i cannot name another website that has introduce me to so many great artists, i guess everything i like is basically from here. I came a long way from liking people like Rihanna, Hilary Duff and Jamie Lynn Spears to the likes of Liz Phair, PJ Harvey, Joni Mitchell, Bjork on 8th Grade and now this bunch of artists that range from many different genres and decades and my friends think i'm a musical genius because i enjoy them and they are very thankful that i was there to introduce them to these talents that radio don't play. Also, making part of this forum only made me find out more about others artists, especially the underrated ones. So all i have to say is thank you and the other members. Honestly, they can't make better than this.
Thank you very much for the update Henrik especially considering the amount of work involved...It's got a certain "purity" as Harold had pointed out a few years back given that we've got 6 decades completely compiled! I can't put into words the immense satisfaction to discover new music with AM...latest major discoveries: The National, Elbow and The Streets...not even mentioning all the music before the 40's - this is just great! I will invite a few friends this week to celebrate this; we'll open a few bottles of beer and drink to you Henrik! Cheers!
That sounds great o.m.! Cheers!
Wilco continues to slip into the abyss of "One album band" with Yankee Hotel Foxtrot at 71 and it's actual best album, Summerteeth at 611.
I think Funeral at 34 is dangerously high. I understand saying it's the best album of the decade, but I just have trouble saying it should honestly be ranked above Remain in Light, The Ramones S/T, The Band's S/T, and many other albums it's beaten this update.
Granted, I know this update was extremely 00s centered, and I sort of expect every 00s album to drop about 10-20% before settling into a final ranking range.
I don't have a lot of time to dive into the update right now, but I'm extremely happy to see it. Congratulations on getting it done - an increasing challenge every year, as we're all aware. Bravo, Henrik!
Horray for Henrik!
I can start my game now!
MPP at 128
Boxer up to 346
Silent Shout up to 310
Crazy Ex Girlfriend back on the chart in the 2200s!
Looks like Sleater-Kinney regained some of their losses from the last update
It'd be nice to see a summary of the biggest gainers at some point too.
Biggest thing I noticed: Radiohead now has 4 albums that are best for their year (95, 97, 00, 07.) No other band has that. Kanye and Jay-Z also make it into the top 100 artists, surely with what they have been doing song-wise the past 3 years will really help them, when/if we get a songs update.
Thanks a lot Henrik! A lot of respect for you and your work here.
YESSS!!! Thank you so much for all your work on this, Henrik, and anyone else who helped.
Finally we now have the noughties artists in critical perspective, getting the credit they deserve pretty much across the board.
What's going on here?!?! Kanye's in the top 100 over Arcade Fire? (Let's hope Kanye doesn't find this blog and start ranting about how I should have started AM Survivor later so he had a shot at winning). Also, how is Kid A a better album than The Bends?
Massive job, Henrik!
Thank you very much, HENRY
Super good to see Interpol break the top 5 of 2002. In my opinion it's top 5 of the 00s at least but it's a start.
for this update, Henrik. And for including those few all-time lists.
Madonna lost just two positions with this update (42-44)- not too shabby, considering Music and Confessions on a Dance Floor didn't appear on as many decade-end lists as some other albums. Music took a decent hit (1348-1655), but Confessions... jumped more than 300 places. She has appearances on other lists (especially songs) that are sitting in the to-be-added-at-a-later-date files.
Michael Jackson gained one spot (35-34), while sister Janet lost 13 (345-358).
Moonbeam, Prince ONLY at No. 7? The scandal.
that's right. But, isn't it "all 7 and the watch them fall?"
I didn't check where Kylie Minogue had ranked on the last update- with decade-end songs lists to be added, she should advance up the list.
Kinda glad Britney Spears' Blackout still ranks outside the top 3000, even with the handful of decade-end lists. With decade-end songs lists to be added, she's set to break the top 400. And that's on the strength of just two notably acclaimed singles.
But now I need to update the positions before posting the results of the 00-40s and 50s poll
I join in the chorus of "Thanks" and "Well Done," Henrik.
No one's mentioned the most important development of this update: IN THE AEROPLANE OVER THE SEA has finally cracked the top 500!
I'm happy In the Aeroplane over the Sea went up, but it's a little hard to get excited considering the fact that I think its still 489 places too low.
at least it isn't 611...or worse...671 like my best friend's favorite album.
Thanks, Henrik! You did a great job!! :D
Some of my favourite parts of the updates:
The Beatles' Abbey Road now in the top 20
Green Day's American Idiot now in top 500
Robert Plant & Alison Krauss's Raising Sand's huge increase to #701 (first time in top 1000), top 100 albums of the 2000s
Belle & Sebastian's The Life Pursuit now in top 1000
Lily Allen's Alright, Still now in top 1000
U2's How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb back in the top 2000, and All That You Can't Leave Behind still in top 1000
Gorillaz's Demon Days jumps up 228 points
Coldplay's Viva la Vida increases, gets closer to top 2000
The Killers' Hot Fuss now in top 1000
Danger Mouse's The Grey Album now in top 1000
Radiohead now the #1 act of the 2000s
Kanye West now in top 100 artists list
No sign of Taylor Swift or the Black Eyed Peas
Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon drops out of the top 20
Dennis Wilson's Pacific Ocean Blues drops 158 points
Cat Stevens's Teaser and the Firecat drops out of the top 2000
The Velvet Underground's Loaded drifts further away from the top 200
Billy Joel now only has one album in the top 3000
Surprised to see:
Justin Timerlake's huge increases (FS/LS #978->#619, Justified enters at #1546)
Kanye West's 808s & Heartbreak enters at #1598 (after previously bubbling under)
No sign of Lady Gaga
Arcade Fire falls out of the top 100 artists, despite Funeral's huge increase
Thank you again for the wonderful work, Henrik.
Ok, some quick stats :
104 albums appear for the first time on the AM3000 (or at least where not included in the 2 previous updates), including 33 albums from 2009
31 albums make their come-back
Highest entry not from 2009 : Luomo - Vocalcity #1084
Highest re-entry : Spoon - Girls Can Tell #1138, which fell off of the AM3000 on last year's update
Highest re-entry not from the 00s : Tom Petty - Wildflowers #2128
Highest entry not from the 00s : Suprême NTM - Paris Sous les bombes #2188
TOP 3 increases :
Amadou & Mariam - Dimanche à Bamako : +1515
Boredoms - Vision Creation Newsun : +1174
Unwound - Leaves Turn Inside You : +1076
top increase not from the 00s (Vision Creation Newsun is from 1999 but was voted for in many 00s lists) :
Vogue - Funky Divas : +721
TOP 3 decreases (excluding album no longer ranked on AM3000)
Blonde Redhead - 23 : -985
Devendra Banhart - Cripple Crow : -972
Robert Wyatt - Cuckooland : -833
Previously highest ranked album to fall out of the AM3000 :
The Magic Numbers - The Magic Numbers, formerly #2019
(but the one I would complain the most about would be Spank Rock - YOYOYOYOYO)
Top 3 increases compared with 2008 (considering only album that were ranked 2 years ago) :
The National - Alligator : +1712
Justin Timberlake - FutureSex/LoveSounds : +1580
Low - Things We Lost in the Fire : +1522
Top 3 decreases compared with 2008 :
Dizzee Rascal - Showtime : -1285
Blonde Redhead - 23 : -1132
Maxïmo Park - A Certain Trigger : -1062
Only new entry on top 100 :
Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot (kicking Hotel California out of it)
Thanks Henrik ! As usual, very good job.
I hate to be the one to ask, but when is the song update coming?
And by the way, thanks for the all the work on this update, it's super exciting!
First off, thanks Henrik as always for a fantastic update. Your work is, as always, greatly appreciated.
Looks like 18 albums left the top 500:
The B-52's - The B-52's
Tim Buckley - Happy Sad
John Coltrane - My Favorite Things
Benny Goodman - The Famous 1938 Carnegie Hall Jazz Concert
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage
Richard Hell & The Voidoids - Blank Generation
Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy
Joni Mitchell - The Hissing of Summer Lawns
Joni Mitchell - Hejira
Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners
Motörhead - No Sleep 'Til Hammersmith
Neu! - Neu!
Public Enemy - Yo! Bum Rush the Show
The Rolling Stones - Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out!
Steely Dan - Countdown to Ecstacy
Traffic - John Barleycorn Must Die
The Wailers - Burnin'
Wire - Chairs Missing
...To be replaced by 5 re-entering:
Bloc Party - Silent Alarm
Bjork - Vespertine
Radiohead - Amnesiac
Radiohead - Hail to the Thief
Kanye West - Late Registration
...and 13 older/brand new entries:
Daft Punk - Discovery
Bright Eyes - I'm Wide Awake, It's Morning
Madvillain - Madvilliany
Beck - Sea Change
Scott Walker - Scott 4
Broken Social Scene - You Forgot It in People
Ryan Adams - Heartbreaker
Modest Mouse - Moon & Antarctica
Elliott Smith - Either/Or
Green Day - American Idiot
At the Drive-In - Relationship of Command
Neutral Milk Hotel - In the Aeroplane Over the Sea
Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Fever to Tell
I wouldn't expect another update for at least six months or so. There are numerous Songs lists to add (aside from End of Decade ones) and some are quite large 9i.e. that French listing, the Guardian list, that new 1,001/10,001 songs, etc. etc.). Tere also are some smaller ones, too. Not to mention some other all-time albums stuff.
RE Lady Gaga- I'd expect that will show up after a songs update.
Henrik, I see that rankings below the top 50 for 2007-on are listed (i.e. Britney Spears' Blackout, 62.5). is that a new addition? And, will albums that ranked below 50 in prior years- for which we have that complete information- have that info added in the future?
Once again, thank you for the update. I'm sure that it's absolutely time consuming and I'm grateful that you can spend your time doing this.
I think I like the ones that fell out of the top 500 better than the ones that came in.
American Idiot, for instance, I liked when it first came out, but I don't think it aged well at all. Now it just kind of comes off as gimmicky and marketing-oriented.
Whereas the two Joni Mitchells and Chairs Missing, those are in my AT top 200.
Is it just me, or did jazz albums not fare particularly well on this update? It seems like nearly every jazz album I've looked at has dropped a few places.
Henrik, how would that work, with albums below the top 50 (say, 51-100) on Pazz-N-Jop producing a popularity ranking? I mean, even within the top 50, you're going to have albums with fewer top 10 citations than others around it, but rank as high as it does because of high placements on some lists.
I have no issue with your thinking, but would like to understand better. Thanks. :)
On a sad note, 1999 fell out of the top 200 and Prince dropped to 7th place on the artist list.
Speaking of 1999 the actual year 1999 isn't very popular with the critics if their highest ranking album is only at #23 of the 90s. The Flaming Lips deserve better that to have the weakest ranked #1 album of the entire decade. They should have at least outranked Nirvana and Public Enemy who had inferior #1's in comparison to their classic's Nevermind and It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back.
I always felt like if some of the 1999 albums had been released in the 00s, they'd all be ranked higher. When an album is released in the last year of a decade, it benefits the least from decade end lists, as they're too new to really perform well (Unless it's an instant classic album like MPP.)
I think if some of the 1999 albums had come out in 2000, they'd have benefited a lot more. Probably every album would be about 30-40% higher, with points from decade end lists.
Country still remains the most overlooked genre on acclaimed. Kind of sad that some people can't get past the stigma to see that ultimately, without Country there'd be no rock.
There's not a single country album in the top 100.
Henrik, I have a question about a ranking:
Amy Winehouse's Back to Black outranks Jay-Z's Blueprint, yet on both the end of the decade lists and the last update, The Blueprint was well ahead of it. How did Back to Black jump ahead?
Henrik's formula when adding the decade-end lists to the site differs from the ranking on the 2000s spreadsheet? Just a theory.
I'm not talking about in the past 25 years. I'm talking about period. Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson don't come off nearly as well as they should given their cultural importance.
I would agree R&B and Jazz deserve more too; if anything Rock as a whole gets kind of overrated. There are sub-genres of sub-genres of rock that get more acclaim than entire other genres of music (For example, I bet 90s brit pop gets more acclaim than the entirety of country music.)
It's funny...if a rock album is ranked 1500th of all-time, it's probably decent to good. If a jazz, r&b or country album is ranked that low, it's probably still pretty damn good, maybe even a masterpiece.
I guess that's just how the cookie crumbles.
I've found some major gems from rock albums lower down on the AM chart. They're just more eclectic (Or less English) than the equally good ones higher up.
I think one problem Johnny Cash and Hank Williams have with climbing up the charts is that they were single artists, rather than album artists. Modern country that's worthy of inclusion at the top (Steve Earle, Lucinda Williams, Miranda Lambert) gets excluded because it's lumped in with the Toby Keiths and Garth Brookses of the world.
Just noticed - Illmatic is up to 275. (If I recall that's about a 200-spot jump.) I think that it's probably the most underperforming album on the whole list. It seems to get more acclaim than it actually does.
Hi Henrik, I'm relatively new to the forum, but I have used your brilliant lists for several years now. Thanks for a great job, this is the best resource of its type out there. And imho your algorithm is spot-on as well, as an IT type I appreciate what is involved here.
Thanks again, and now you can have a holiday?
Yeah, jazz and country will always get the short end of the stick in a general overview of best-of lists such as this one. In the same way that comedies, cartoons, and science fiction movies do on a site like They Shoot Pictures. This makes me particularly sad because jazz is my favorite genre. Luckily, this problem is remedied by the Jazz 100 site, which Henrik very helpfully provides a link to. That's what I use for jazz, not AM. And as others have pointed out, classic country acts were most often singles based. The country "albums" I listen to now (from the golden era) are nearly all compilations, and you won't see them on many lists.
Sites like this one will always favor the more popular and canonized, instead of the more deserving. It's not the fault of the site, but of the list-makers. And this is the reason why I do most of my exploring not in the top 500, but in 501-2500. TONS of lesser known masterpieces there. Shellac's At Action Park. Meat Puppets' Up on the Sun. Vashti Bunyan's Just Another Diamond Day. As for country, Michael Hurley's Have Moicy!. All albums that are as indispensable for me as Revolver.
Eh, 'More canonized', I wouldn't say 'More popular'.
Here's the secret about lists like this and They Shoot Pictures. Not a lot of people, if you ask them, will say Citizen Kane is their favorite movie of all time. But, if you ask them to make a list of their favorite 100 movies, more lists will have Citizen Kane than any other movie. So what these lists are really measuring is an album's hit/miss ratio among people who listen to a large variety of music.
That's also why genre films hit lower on critic lists. If you like the science fiction formula, you'll like science fiction films as much as drama films. If you don't, you won't like any science fiction. So, if you poll people with widely varying tastes in films, a lower percentage will include them.
It's not fair to chalk it up to some kind of elitist bias. It's just a matter of a formula that rewards the size of the niche more than popularity within that niche.
I'm sorry BillAdama but what is BMAA and TSPDT ?
T'as tout compris !
Tu dois nominer 10 albums soit "bubbling under" soit classés en dessous de la 500ème place, et les 128 qui étaient qualifiés la dernière fois sont exclus. Pas de points à donner mais un ordre de préférence.
Bill prendra le n°1 de tout le monde, puis le n°2, puis le N°3 etc. jusqu'à avoir 128 albums, sachant qu'il y a quelques contraintes (par exemple il ne retiendra pas plus de 25 albums classés au-dessus de la 1000ème position je crois) donc tu peux "stratégiser" un peu ta liste (faire remonter un album classé autour de la 700ème place pour augmenter ses chances de se qualifier par exemple), mais une liste avec tes 10 albums préférés dans l'ordre suffira je pense ! Et apparemment, on compte sur toi pour mettre des albums français (parce que perso, j'ai mis 10 albums anglophones).
I have a small side note to the animation bias.
Most of the famous animes are from the 90s or 00s, with a handful from the 80s. Pixar didn't really get started until the 00s. And that list is far more biased against newness than any genre.
The list actually has Spirited Away second highest from 2001, behind only Mulholland Drive. And the older Disney classics like Snow White and Bambi are on the list, just down in the 300-600 range.
And if you look at the 21st century list, they've got Fantastic Mr Fox, Up, and Coraline as their #3, #4 and #10 of 2009, and Wall-E and Waltz With Bashir as their #2 and #7 of 2008.
I take this as a sign that animation is becoming critically viable as of just a few years ago, thanks to Pixar. And I think if it weren't for Social Network, Toy Story 3 would win Best Picture. The real problem is, among a lot of serious cinephiles, animation is still mostly delineated as something for kids.
No, but I think success at the AAs represents a sort of cultural acceptance as a serious genre. Far more so than the grammies, at least. Maybe the success of animation on the sight & sound polls are a better example?
Alright, I'll be the first to say it.
When's the next update?
at least the majority of Oscar nominees indeed were notable critical hits. Look at the history of the Grammys and that is far from the case. But, the Oscar awards are the major category is "Best Picture,' whereas for the Grammys it's Album of the Year," "Record of the Year," etc.- "Best" is not part of the title. So, other factors come into play.
It seems most of you don't agree with me, but I do think that the Academy Awards aren't much better than the grammys.
In the 2000's we had Crash in 2006, Chicago in 2003 and A Beautiful Mind in 2002. The 90's were worse with Shakespeare in Love in '98 (what?), Titanic in '97, Braveheart in '95 and then Driving Miss Daisy (right) in '89. Then again, the 70's were much better, mostly because of the overall quality of popular Holywood films.
The Best Foreign film category is quite rediculous anyway.
Moreover, the campaigns of big studio's for certain films seem to be more important for the voters (who are not necessarliy films experts or lovers and most of the time don't watch half of the films) than the quality of films. The year Crash won is a very good example of that.
A Beautiful Mind was easily the best film of 2002. I do agree that the winners aren't always the most deserving films, but the nominations for the Oscars definitely correlate more with critical acclaim than the Grammy nominations.
The critics don't agree. A Beautiful Mind isn't even found in the Top 250 of films of the 21 Century, on the TSPDT list.
But maybe you're right and the grammys are even worse. Although before the 90s, the grammys didn't seem to be THAT bad (especially the 70s).
The winner of BP isn't usually the one that deserves it, but if you look at the full list of nominations it usually contains decent to great, accessible, American films. Which I think is the most you can expect from a mainstream award show. Crash may not be a very good film, but it's less ridiculous a choice than over half the Best Album nominees.
A Beautful Mind was just that, a decent and accessible movie. It just, like many Ron Howard films, skews reality toward the sentimental. (If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the book.)
before the 90s did have some deserving nominees (and winners)- i.e. Thriller. But, it had PLENTY of middle-of-the-road, safe, commercial nominees. Things have progressed some since the late 90s, but we still see those head-scratchers annually. There's so much baggage from the past to overcome that it's never going to be as in line with what critics regard as the best in a given year as the Oscars are.
The Grammys didn't earn nicknames like "Shammys" and "Grannies" for nothing.
I concur with many of the posts above. Nobody is saying that the Oscars are perfect, indeed they often make suspect choices. The Grammys, on the other hand, have been laughably awful for longer than I care to remember. I would never look at Grammy nominees to figure out what music to listen to, but I would look at Best Picture nominees to get ideas on what to watch.
I have a question for Henrik or any of the more statistically minded posters; what is the point differential between 400 and 600? It seems like every update, some album makes a massive leap on the third page of the all time list, and an equal amount drop. Am i correct in saying those albums are all fairly close together point wise?
Henrik, DO you know when we can enjoy the update of the top 3000 songs?