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Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

ROUND 3, WEEK 4

Here are this week's brackets. Remember, you can also view the brackets on this site. Voting is now open, and you have until 11:59 PM Pacific time on this upcoming Saturday to vote. Vote either in this thread or e-mail me.

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#5. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin
#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
#60. "Loser" - Beck
#229. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#86. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash
#150. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground
#331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder
#630. "Think" - Aretha Franklin

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#7. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding
#26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen
#39. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones
#71. "Live Forever" - Oasis

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#13. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes
#20. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles
#52. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast
#84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience


REMINDER: You must comment on ALL the songs in order for your ballot to count.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Because I forgot to post this until Sunday afternoon, I'm extending voting for Week 4 an extra 24 hours. Mea culpa.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#5. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin
Hard to vote for anything over this one.
#229. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
A great song about murder and pride, with one of Hendrix's more memorable guitar parts.
#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
Cool funky song but not one of my favorites of his.
#60. "Loser" - Beck
Great song, very fun to quote, but out of it's depth in this bracket.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder
One of Stevie Wonder's best songs, with lyrics that get straight to the point of neighborhoods politicians want up to certain barely liveable standards but not any higher.
#150. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground
I would pick a few other of their songs on the same album over this, but the album is universally strong enough to get an easy second in a bracket that's weak for the third round.
#86. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash
One of his most canonical songs, which shows off his vocal style.
#630. "Think" - Aretha Franklin
Good song, but not final 16 material.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen
"Tramps like us, baby we were born to run!" is easily one of the best hooks in rock music history.
#7. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding
Great soulful song beautifully delivered, just barely behind Born To Run.
#71. "Live Forever" - Oasis
I will say what I always say about Oasis, great singles band, average album band. This is one of their best singles.
#39. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones
Good song, but I vastly prefer the Stones roots-instrumental oriented stuff to their pop-oriented stuff.

Strongest bracket of the week, easily.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
One of Dylan's post poetically beautiful songs, channeled through Hendrix's masterful energy. One of the greatest songs ever.
#52. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast
Extremely fun song to listen to.
#13. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes
Great production, great hook.
#20. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles
I will repeat my comments on this in other rounds. Good song, but doesn't stand out in the Beatles' canon to me.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. #229. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience /
Very easy winner. Not only one of the two best covers by Hendrix, but also one of the best covers in general.
2. #60. "Loser" - Beck /
Huge drop-off after number one. I guess this is the most interesting one of the songs left.
3. #37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder /
Not one of my favorite Wonder songs. Maybe a little too repetitive.
4. #5. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin /
Not my favorite Franklin super song at all. I prefer 'Think', 'I Say a Little Prayer' and 'A Natural Woman' any day.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. #150. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground /
Great song. Didn't have a lot of trouble ending first here. One of the four marvelous opening songs on VU&N.
2. #331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder /
One of the better Wonder songs. I like the music here.
3. #86. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash /
Not his best, but still a nice Cash song. Short as well. Boom-chica-boom forever.
4. #630. "Think" - Aretha Franklin /
I like this song, so I am sorry that I have to put Franklin fourth again. This one would be second in the first bracket.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. #39. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones /
Not my favorite Stones song, but good enough to end first here. From a period when they couldn't do anything wrong in my eyes.
2. #7. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding /
Wonderful, relaxing soul song. Only the whistling wasn't the best idea ever.
3. #26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen /
Not my favorite song of same-titled album. But the album doesn't have a mediocre song on it, so it's still fine.
#71. "Live Forever" - Oasis /
I'm not a fan of Oasis and I don't think this is their best song either. That adds up.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. #20. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles /
My favorite Beatles song. Beautiful, interesting and different. And that counts for both Lennon's and McCarthy's part.
2. #84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience /
The other essential Hendrix cover. I'm glad I don't have to choose between those two.
3. #13. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes /
Beautiful song, I'm sorry I have to put it third here.
#52. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast /
Nice and very fresh song. I have listened quite a lot of times to it. But the competition is strong at the moment.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#5. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin
One of the most powerful vocal performances of all time, and it's a great song too!
#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
Big hit from his best album. Lots of great hooks and transitions. The composition, vocals and instruments were spot on. This song and album moved Stevie into the stratosphere after an often overlooked effort "Music of My Mind" which included "Superwoman."
#229. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
Great song that I once performed (I only played the very repetitive bass line though).
#60. "Loser" - Beck
Beck does some amazing things in this song, but I just don't enjoy listening to it that much compared to the other three in this strong bracket.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder
I am not sure that this song is any better than Superstition, but this bracket is not nearly as strong as the Wagner Bloc this week. I don't really love the end of the song so much when their locking the protagonist in jail. "Get in that cell ...."
#630. "Think" - Aretha Franklin
A fine song that doesn't come close to Respect in my view, even though it does seem to be analogous.
#86. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash
One of Cash's best - but I'm not a big Cash fan.
#150. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground
One of VU's best and a close call with number three in this bracket. I don't mind voting this 4th at all.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen
A tour de force and neck and neck with All Along the Watchtower as the best song under consideration today.
#7. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding
I don't see this song as one of the top 10 of all time, but it is wonderful. Another hit with whistling.
#39. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones
A rather unexceptional Stones hit in my view. It has many great elements and energy; but it doesn't reach masterpiece status for me.
#71. "Live Forever" - Oasis
A fine song, but a fairly easy call for 4th in this strong bracket.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
An easy call for first in this bracket. Hendrix is remarkably intense while remaining melodic in this masterpiece.
#20. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles
While I consider this song a masterpiece, its status is diminished similarly to "Superstition," because I find the ending of this song to be somewhat gratuitous and off-putting - as I almost always find when there is a large gap of silence followed by a small ditty of music. One exception to this is "Her Majesty" on Abbey Road.
#13. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes
A fine pop tune with great production and vocals. Not quite a masterpiece for me.
#52. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast
One of the better songs of the past two decades, but in this rarefied company it gets beat (although it is a very close call between 3rd and 4th in this bracket).

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder (Funky, freaky, and has an amazing bass lick by the other Beck.)
#229. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix (I love Jimi, ahd this is off one of my favorite albums, but it's not even my favorite Hendrix song this week)
#5. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin (Two great covers in this bracket, both timeless classics. But we're looking for a top 16.)
#60. "Loser" - Beck (All the songs in this round should be good, and this is no exception.)

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder (Two Stevie songs, to winners, in my eyes.)
#630. "Think" - Aretha Franklin (One of my favorite Aretha songs.)
#86. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash (I can't believe I didn't listen to this song on youtube before I stumbled upon it in my mom's old record collection. That same day I also discovered The Dock of the Bay.)
#150. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground (I like the song, but I seriously need to get this album instead of listening to it on youtube. Good thing it's October.)

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#7. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding (The only song in my top 10 left in the competition, aside from Stairway and the already gone SFF.)
#39. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones (This song is a gas gas gas.)
#71. "Live Forever" - Oasis (Love the guitars, but it is disturbing that Oasis got more songs through than Bob Dylan, U2, Radiohead and R.E.M.)
#26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen (I love the Boss, but I like his Born in the USA album more than Born to Run.)

Best Bracket Yet!
BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix (With one song in my top 10 this week, we also have number 11. This is THE greatest cover in history, and not because it get good acclaim, but because Jimi did something unthinkable: He made a Bob Dylan song a Jimi Hendrix song. He turned acoustics and Harmonicas into electric madness. Even Bob Dylan says the song is Jimi's! He only plays it with an electric guitar now as a tribute to him!)
#13. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes (If there is a perfect pop song, it is right here.)
#52. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast (Outkast is slowly growing on me, like moss....)
#20. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles (Not one of my favorite Beatles' songs, I think the already gone Strawberry Fields Forever is much better.)

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#229. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
This is as bluesy as Hendrix got probably, and it suits his at times languid, at times half-arsed playing style down to the ground.
#5. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin
So accomplished, but not quite on the level in my mind that most other people seem to put it on.
#60. "Loser" - Beck
I love this song; there's even a bit of Frank Zappa in its spoken sarcasm, and Beck strikes just the right chord with his voice.
#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
Very good song and incredibly catchy, I just don't like the quality of Stevie Wonder's lyrics. When he tries to be conceptual, like here, or a narrator in other songs Talking Book onwards, his words pale in comparisons to the Dylans and the Neil Youngs. If that's not the point then why did he bother to go for such big ideas with these songs?

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#630. "Think" - Aretha Franklin
This understated vocal is maybe Aretha's best. Its casualness makes her even more imposing as she talks down to her inferior man.
#86. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash
Maybe Johnny Cash's best song with a nice little guitar hook which almost sums up Country on its own.
#150. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground
This song is crushed both by Heroin and by Venus in Furs on VU&N, but makes for a nice change of pace on the album after Sunday Morning. A better song about New York than Stevie's anyway.
#331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder
A very good song, but I'm really not into the sound of Stevie Wonder's golden 5. Too much jazz backing without the raucous jazz feel.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#71. "Live Forever" - Oasis
Maybe the most empowering song still in the competition, as vague as its message is.
#39. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones
The Stones' best song for me. The riff, the immediacy, the ridiculous lyrics, a bit of blues - it's all there.
#7. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding
This song is so serene and pleasant to listen to, it just got blown away by the two above when I listened to it again.
#26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen
Don't really like Bruce. For a song about frontier spirit (which I don't really get as definitively as Americans seem to define it) I prefer the sharper-edged We Gotta Get Out of This Place by The Animals.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
#84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
This bracket is a killer, trumping last week's best. Simply Hendrix's best recording, combining perfection and authenticity.
#20. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles
Here The Beatles are simultaneously at their most real and their most surreal (and more amazing manage to carry this contrast in each part of the song). I am glad that it won't go through to the last 16, however, since The Beatles were the most profilic songwriters but by no means wrote the best song, and this is their best shot.
#52. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast
This is such a free-spirited song, it definitely deserves last 16; just a shame it got this bracket.
#13. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes
Of course it has been influential, but it is really SUCH a magical recording. I prefer The Chiffons and The Loco-motion. Still a great song though.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Guy
WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET

#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
Very good song and incredibly catchy, I just don't like the quality of Stevie Wonder's lyrics. When he tries to be conceptual, like here, or a narrator in other songs Talking Book onwards, his words pale in comparisons to the Dylans and the Neil Youngs. If that's not the point then why did he bother to go for such big ideas with these songs?



I very much appreciate your comparison of Wonder with Young and Dylan. It is interesting that you think that Wonder's words pale in comparison to Young's or Dylan's. In my view, this is a subjective call and depends on the lyrical attributes you find most compelling. Perhaps if you provided some characteristics of Dylan's and Young's lyrics that you find more compelling than Stevie's your statement would be more convincing. In my view, Young and Dylan are superior story tellers than Stevie, but that doesn't necessarily make their lyrics superior in terms of poignancy or having an ability to deliver "conceptual" messages with sufficient impact in his songs. In my view, Stevie meets this test as he becomes a young adult, starting with his Music of My Mind album as exemplified by "Superwoman."

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

I'm glad you've made this into a debate, Henry; I'm going to find it challenging. Also, you should know that I'm interested in metrical poetry (i.e. not free verse, as good as Eliot is), and take the lyrical quality of certain songs very seriously.

Okay, I'll compare Dylan with Stevie, rather than Young - partly because I know and love a lot more of Dylan's stuff than Young's, and partly because Dylan seems to cover the type of social commentary that Stevie Wonder often tried his hand at more, without straying into overt protesting and politicism as Neil Young so often does.

An extreme example:


Visions of Johanna (my favourite Dylan song, with a lyric several hundred storeys high with irony, metaphor and yet still raw emotion, Andrew Motion's description of which as the greatest song lyric ever written really doesn't do it justice)

Ain’t it just like the night to play tricks when you’re tryin' to be so quiet?
We sit here stranded, though we’re all doin’ our best to deny it
And Louise holds a handful of rain, temptin’ you to defy it


Superstition

Very superstitious,
Writing's on the wall
Very superstitious,
Ladder's bout' to fall
Thirteen month old baby,
Broke the lookin' glass
Seven years of bad luck,
The good things in your past


Here are the opening verse of Visions of Johanna by Dylan and the opening verse of Superstition by Stevie Wonder.

The first thing to note is Dylan's rhyming scheme is not only inventive but technically perfect, and continues as such through the rest of the song; Wonder's lyric makes the slight slip (the first of several) of trying to rhyme 'glass' with 'past'. This feature, a prominent contrast apparent between many of their respective lyrics, should be ignored when analysing their lyrics, however: Dylan relied on original poetic turns in place of musical frills to decorate his songs; Stevie Wonder in the seventies, lacking the energy which effervesced through his earlier songs, used his production skills.

Secondly, we should look at how Wonder does make a rhyming scheme work. Both begin their songs in a conversational style (Dylan with a rhetorical question, Wonder by leaving out a subject and verb). In Dylan's case, this is to make the listener let their guard down and relate, ready for the five stanzas of Blake and Ovid about to hit them (I'll say now that this is better than anything William Blake or even Ovid ever did); in Wonder's case, it is so as to allow a smooth continium into the littany of cliches ('writing on the wall', 'ladder's 'bout to fall', 'lookin' glass') upon which his rhyming scheme relies. Dylan, too, uses cliches, but not as a cop out to fit his rhyming scheme. Playfully he subverts the idea of the night playing tricks on you onto the innocent ('trying to be so quiet'), aching with self-pity and setting the existential mood for the rest of the song.

Hopefully, here I have given you a taster as to why I see Wonder and Dylan in completely different universes, and why to mention Wonder's lyrics in the same breath as Dylan's seems almost blasphemous to me (I do admit that not even Dylan got very close to topping Visions of Johanna's lyrics though, so I'm not saying all his lyrics are this good, just that this is what he was capable of as opposed to Wonder). So when I hear Stevie Wonder talking about the same things as Dylan (or trying to) with lazy cliches, improper rhyming schemes, and unimaginative turns of phrase, to an orchestral pop-for-pop's-sake backdrop, it doesn't do it for me. I mean, would Stevie Wonder even dream of coming up with the phrase 'handful of rain' and the connotations behind it? And this idea of Louise with it, and...I could go on for hours about that song.


This final example is what made me forever sceptical about Stevie's lyrics after listening.

I Wish

Sneaking out the back door
To hang out with those hoodlum friends of mine
Greeted at the back door
With boy thought I told you not to go outside
Tryin' your best to bring the
Water to your eyes
Thinkin' it might stop her
From woopin' your behind

I wish those days could come back once more
Why did those days ev-er have to go
I wish those days could come back once more
Why did those days ev-er have to go
Cause I love them so

This is the second verse and chorus for I Wish. Firstly, the rhyming scheme is diabolical. The problem, however, lies in Stevie's occasional detour into colloquial language, which he fails to maintain throughout the song, making the lyric sound strained and awkward. Even worse, this is a reflective song, among the closest to introspection in Wonder's collection. Such a feeling or atmosphere cannot be gauged from the song even remotely, on account of the upbeat jazz-funk sound, particularly in the chorus. In fact, the lyrics are so out of place with the music that they were replaced and the tune and instrumental hooks used as the soundtrack to Will Smith's big picture flop Wild Wild West, whose sentiments greatly opposed those of Wonder's lyrics. It's almost as if he said to himself, "I need to write a song about my childhood and how I wish I could have it back. I know, I'll just use this melody I've got lying around and call it 'I Wish'".

Two things, so you don't get the wrong idea:
1) I really like a lot of Stevie Wonder songs and love a couple. I think he did have some great lyrics (though I'm not sure how many he contributed to); My Cherie Amour, for example, is a simple lyric full of cliche, but emotes his feelings at the time (which were apparently genuine) so well. It's when he followed Marvin Gaye into more mature themes that he became unstuck in terms of lyrics.
2) I'd say 99% of people in rock music and 100% of people in the charts can't write a complete rhyming scheme which is technically correct throughout. I'm not picking on Stevie, it's just that when you come up against Dylan that factor has to be at least mentioned (Dylan himself wrote quite a few bad rhyming schemes).

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Guy
I'm glad you've made this into a debate, Henry; I'm going to find it challenging. Also, you should know that I'm interested in metrical poetry (i.e. not free verse, as good as Eliot is), and take the lyrical quality of certain songs very seriously.

Okay, I'll compare Dylan with Stevie, rather than Young - partly because I know and love a lot more of Dylan's stuff than Young's, and partly because Dylan seems to cover the type of social commentary that Stevie Wonder often tried his hand at more, without straying into overt protesting and politicism as Neil Young so often does.

An extreme example:


Visions of Johanna (my favourite Dylan song, with a lyric several hundred storeys high with irony, metaphor and yet still raw emotion, Andrew Motion's description of which as the greatest song lyric ever written really doesn't do it justice)

Ain’t it just like the night to play tricks when you’re tryin' to be so quiet?
We sit here stranded, though we’re all doin’ our best to deny it
And Louise holds a handful of rain, temptin’ you to defy it


Superstition

Very superstitious,
Writing's on the wall
Very superstitious,
Ladder's bout' to fall
Thirteen month old baby,
Broke the lookin' glass
Seven years of bad luck,
The good things in your past


Here are the opening verse of Visions of Johanna by Dylan and the opening verse of Superstition by Stevie Wonder.

The first thing to note is Dylan's rhyming scheme is not only inventive but technically perfect, and continues as such through the rest of the song; Wonder's lyric makes the slight slip (the first of several) of trying to rhyme 'glass' with 'past'. This feature, a prominent contrast apparent between many of their respective lyrics, should be ignored when analysing their lyrics, however: Dylan relied on original poetic turns in place of musical frills to decorate his songs; Stevie Wonder in the seventies, lacking the energy which effervesced through his earlier songs, used his production skills.

Secondly, we should look at how Wonder does make a rhyming scheme work. Both begin their songs in a conversational style (Dylan with a rhetorical question, Wonder by leaving out a subject and verb). In Dylan's case, this is to make the listener let their guard down and relate, ready for the five stanzas of Blake and Ovid about to hit them (I'll say now that this is better than anything William Blake or even Ovid ever did); in Wonder's case, it is so as to allow a smooth continium into the littany of cliches ('writing on the wall', 'ladder's 'bout to fall', 'lookin' glass') upon which his rhyming scheme relies. Dylan, too, uses cliches, but not as a cop out to fit his rhyming scheme. Playfully he subverts the idea of the night playing tricks on you onto the innocent ('trying to be so quiet'), aching with self-pity and setting the existential mood for the rest of the song.

Hopefully, here I have given you a taster as to why I see Wonder and Dylan in completely different universes, and why to mention Wonder's lyrics in the same breath as Dylan's seems almost blasphemous to me (I do admit that not even Dylan got very close to topping Visions of Johanna's lyrics though, so I'm not saying all his lyrics are this good, just that this is what he was capable of as opposed to Wonder). So when I hear Stevie Wonder talking about the same things as Dylan (or trying to) with lazy cliches, improper rhyming schemes, and unimaginative turns of phrase, to an orchestral pop-for-pop's-sake backdrop, it doesn't do it for me. I mean, would Stevie Wonder even dream of coming up with the phrase 'handful of rain' and the connotations behind it? And this idea of Louise with it, and...I could go on for hours about that song.


This final example is what made me forever sceptical about Stevie's lyrics after listening.

I Wish

Sneaking out the back door
To hang out with those hoodlum friends of mine
Greeted at the back door
With boy thought I told you not to go outside
Tryin' your best to bring the
Water to your eyes
Thinkin' it might stop her
From woopin' your behind

I wish those days could come back once more
Why did those days ev-er have to go
I wish those days could come back once more
Why did those days ev-er have to go
Cause I love them so

This is the second verse and chorus for I Wish. Firstly, the rhyming scheme is diabolical. The problem, however, lies in Stevie's occasional detour into colloquial language, which he fails to maintain throughout the song, making the lyric sound strained and awkward. Even worse, this is a reflective song, among the closest to introspection in Wonder's collection. Such a feeling or atmosphere cannot be gauged from the song even remotely, on account of the upbeat jazz-funk sound, particularly in the chorus. In fact, the lyrics are so out of place with the music that they were replaced and the tune and instrumental hooks used as the soundtrack to Will Smith's big picture flop Wild Wild West, whose sentiments greatly opposed those of Wonder's lyrics. It's almost as if he said to himself, "I need to write a song about my childhood and how I wish I could have it back. I know, I'll just use this melody I've got lying around and call it 'I Wish'".

Two things, so you don't get the wrong idea:
1) I really like a lot of Stevie Wonder songs and love a couple. I think he did have some great lyrics (though I'm not sure how many he contributed to); My Cherie Amour, for example, is a simple lyric full of cliche, but emotes his feelings at the time (which were apparently genuine) so well. It's when he followed Marvin Gaye into more mature themes that he became unstuck in terms of lyrics.
2) I'd say 99% of people in rock music and 100% of people in the charts can't write a complete rhyming scheme which is technically correct throughout. I'm not picking on Stevie, it's just that when you come up against Dylan that factor has to be at least mentioned (Dylan himself wrote quite a few bad rhyming schemes).


Wow!! That was a great analysis and very much appreciated. When I consider whether lyrics merit acclaim, I am pretty oblivious to the rhyming scheme, so your explanation was very helpful to me.

On the other hand, I am not sure that the rhyming scheme is dispositive when considering lyrical quality.

Much more more important to me is whether the lyrics convey a message of some value to me in a reasonably artful way. While lyrics are properly evaluated using one or more of many standard literary approaches, I typically appreciate lyrics that are clever in terms of their messaging. That's probably why I appreciate Jackson Browne.


Stevie's lyrics on Superstition are relatively mundane, and I cannot speak to his rhyming schemes on other songs either. The only line that I find at all interesting from Superstition is the closing line -
When you believe in things that you don't understand than you suffer.
Superstition ain't the way.

No rhyming scheme in this verse either as far as I can tell, and I don't mind it absence one bit.

Sometimes, I attempt to assess lyrical quality in view of an analytical adage that my high school English teacher often drilled into us:
"Form embodies content; you cannot separate the tale from the teller."

When I assess Wonder's lyrics in "Golden Lady" - in the context of a blind man transcending his handicap and pouring out his joy and hope in simle love song using visual cognition - no shortcoming in rhyming scheme diminishes my enjoyment of these lyrics. Perhaps the "eyes" and "surprise" rhyming scheme is judged as trite and lacking imagination. But, I honestly don't let this get in the way of my appreciation of Wonder's efforts. Wonder came into the music world as a 12 year old, and it mey be a bit unfair to expect him to have matured as a poet to the extent that Dylan clearly has.

Similarly, when I enjoy Dylan's "Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts," I don't think about the rhyming scheme for even a nanosecond as I thoroughly enjoy Dylan's story-telling extraordinaire.

Also, when I listen to Young's passionate "Southern Man" I also do not get caught up on the rhyming scheme.

Wonder's lyrics may not exceptional if analyzed from a poetic perspective. They tend to be less eloquent and perhaps more accessible than lyrics from Dylan, Young and Browne. So in my view (which I believe you have also ably articulated) in terms of certain assessment measures (including rhyming scheme), Wonder's lyrics do not generally rival lyrics from Dylan and others.

But in the general context of pop music, Wonder's lyrics remain impressive in terms of clarity, poignancy, emotional impact, and expression of worldview.

Readily acknowledging the limitations discussed earlier, I now note some of Wonder's songs that have lyrics that continue to move me:

Blame it on the Sun
Big Brother
Superwoman
You and I
You are the Sunshine of My Life
Lookin' For Another Pure Love
I Believe (When I Fall in Love It Will Be Forever)
Too High
Visions
Higher Ground
Livin' for the City
He's Misstra Know-It-All
Smile Please
Heaven Is 10 Zillion Light Years Away
Too Shy To Say
Creepin
They Won't Go When I Go
You Haven't Done Nothin
Please Don't Go
Isn't She Lovely
Joy Inside My Tears
Knocks Me Off My Feet
Summer Soft
Ordinary Pain
Pastime Paradise
Saturn
Ngiculela - Es Una Historia - I Am Singing
If It's Magic
As
Another Star

I must admit that Wonder's offerings after the "Songs in the Key of Life" album have generally not done very much for me.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
01. "Loser" - Beck : An incredibly creative effort that still sounds fresh today.
02. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder : Who doesn't like this song?
03. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin : This sounds weird, but if it wasn't so acclaimed, I might like it more. I don't think it deserves to be singled out as much as it is--"Think" is definitely on the same level, if not better.
04. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience : The first of a killer crop of fourth place songs this week. Sometimes this song's creepy vibe captivates me, while other times I find it somewhat dull.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
01. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground : This tune takes the bracket in an absolute landslide. Riding one of rock's most underappreciated riffs, "I'm Waiting for the Man" is definitely the hardest-rocking song on TVU&N. Yet it still manages to be nearly as haunting as "Heroin" and "Venus in Furs" in its lyrics, which put you in the place of a man completely reliant on drugs for fulfillment.
02. "Think" - Aretha Franklin : I need to get an album by Aretha. This song has an absolutely massive chorus.
03. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder : This song is downright triumphant during the verses, but I can't shake the feeling that it has a lot of wasted space and needs some other element to really be an all-time great.
04. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash : I love Johnny, but when I listened to this back-to-back with the other songs, it just didn't hold up.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
01. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding : Otis and Bruce are poised for a really good battle in this bracket. This is perhaps the perfect soul song, managing to be both laid back and extremely sad.
02. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen : I don't really have anything to add to the mountains of acclaim that have deservedly been heaped on this song. Great in every way possible.
03. "Live Forever" - Oasis : Definitely the greatest moment for the band, and really the only song keeping me from downright dismissing them.
04. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones : I absolutely love this song, but all of the songs in this bracket are top 300 material for me. The Stones really perfected the rock single from about 1966-1972.


BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
01. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes : Making great use of the best and most imitated drum beat of any pop song, "Be My Baby" is definitely one of the most glorious and uplifting mainstream songs in existence.
02. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience : Hendrix's most fully realized and emotionally evocative track.
03. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast : I have heard this more than all of the other songs and it still works. Nothing unifies people my age with extensive and mainstream music taste quite like this song.
04. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles : I used to love this, but now I rarely listen to it and it's not in my top 10 for the group. It certainly deserves acclaim, but it doesn't emotionally move me, and the orchestral crescendos could have been better integrated into the song. That being said, the only reason it's in fourth place is because this is a monstrous bracket.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET

1. Stevie Wonder- "Superstition" 9.5: As big of a fan of funk as I am, this is the first funk song chonologically that I truly love. James Brown and Sly are cool and all, but this really gets me going!
2. Jimi Hendrix- "Hey Joe" 9: My favorite Hendrix song by a mile. The way he narrates the story is quite gripping, showcasing that he is much more than a great guitarist. Until today, I thought he wrote this song, but his interpretation of it is still brilliant.
3. Aretha Franklin- "Respect" 1: Ugh. Otis Redding's version is fine, but Aretha Franklin has always irritated the heck out of me.
4. Beck- "Loser" 0: Double ugh. This sort of ironic self-depricating dribble made me hate the 90s. Sounding like a disinterested drunk idiot doesn't help matters, either. I really should like Beck given his abilities, and there are a few songs of his I enjoy ("E-Pro" most notably), but it just doesn't click for me, especially here.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET

1. Stevie Wonder- "Living for the City" 9.5: Another fabulous Stevie Wonder classic up against one other great song. The righteous anger with which he sings the line "her clothes are old but never are they dirty" is really powerful stuff, and the whole song just scorches.
2. The Velvet Underground- "I'm Waiting for the Man" 9.5: It's so tough to place this one second, and on another day I might swap them, but not today. The chugging riff and slightly warped piano keys give it such a delectable swagger!
3. Aretha Franklin- "Think" 5: This is much better from Aretha, and probably my favorite song by her. Given that I've given it a rating of 5, that indicates just how little I think of her, though.
4. Johnny Cash- "I Walk the Line" 3: Unfortunately, "good country" is still country to these ears, and while I appreciate the sentiment, I don't like the sound.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET

1. Otis Redding- "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" 10: I can't really explain why I love this song so much, but I do. It opened me up to 60s soul, and I've since fallen for the Otis Blue album. Nevertheless, his vocal here is flawless to me, from the way he rolls the "watching the tide roll away" to the subtle but important change in tone in the second verse.
2. Bruce Springsteen- "Born to Run" 5: It's pretty epic and all, but I just generally don't care for this style of music. To his credit, though, Bruce makes this style about as well as anyone.
3. The Rolling Stones- "Jumpin' Jack Flash" 4.5: Yet another Stones song that I could generally take or leave.
4. Oasis- "Live Forever" 0: I've gone on about my disdain for Oasis many times before. Let's just say that their music to me is the symptomatic equivalent to irritable bowel syndrome.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET

1. Jimi Hendrix- "All Along the Watchtower" 7: Definitely a decent track, but it comes nowhere near the brilliance of "Hey Joe" for me. It wins a relatively weak bracket.
2. OutKast- "Hey Ya" 6: I like OutKast, especially Aquemini, but I've never really taken to this song. For hyper-kinetic bouts of awe-inspiring blitzkriegs, I'd much rather have "B.O.B.", or especially "Many Moons" by Janelle Monáe.
3. The Ronettes- "Be My Baby" 5.5: I used to dislike this song, but I'm slowly but surely warming to it. Perhaps my next venture into 60s soul?
4. The Beatles- "A Day in the Life" 1: Probably one of the better Beatles songs for me, but I still just can't appreciate it.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Henry, I pretty much agree with all of your points. As that footnote at the end of my last post alluded to, of course rhyming scheme clearly doesn't matter in pop music generally, and an artist should not be criticised harshly for not sticking precisely to the rules of rhyming verse. In fact, an artist should be commended if they come up with lines which only fit roughly together in a rhyming scheme (e.g. 'scheme' and 'been') but are powerfully or originally phrased. It's just that the technical accuracy of the verse is one of the thousands of things which I love about Visions of Johanna in particular, and it often gets me when an artist cleverly rhymes in a way which I haven't heard before.

The thing about Stevie Wonder is that it is undeniable that, in his 70s albums, he conveys similar themes to the great folk heroes before him, going for the same hard-hitting impact through a different medium. Whether or not they're side by side I'll always have Dylan, whose introspective songs I discovered before Stevie's. And since I'm not a big fan of the jazz-funk elements infused with pop which Stevie Wonder introduces, clumsy and often banal or incoherent lyrics don't help. You could lay these charges at the door of many other so-called Greats whose music I unequivocally adore, I'd say the single biggest thing with Stevie Wonder is that so many of his later lyrics don't suit the accompanying atmosphere of the music and vice versa (I Wish, as I have already explained, being the biggest example).

Also, it's important to remember, as I said on the Survivor thread, that as much as people try to rationalise why they have certain tastes, it's really all about which cave looks better to sleep in, or which buffalo will be easier to hunt. Cateogorising into likes and dislikes is an essential survival tool which, at this stage of human social evolution, is in the main completely unnecessary, but extremely fun to use. Why do I really like Dylan and Neil Young's lyrics more than Stevie Wonder's? Who knows?

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. (Top 400) "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder: I've heard it a million times in a million places, and it's still great.
2. (Top 700) "Respect" - Aretha Franklin: I've actually re-engaged myself with this, as too many wedding receptions turned me off for a while. But that vocal, I mean ye gods that's something else.
3. (Top 1000) "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience: Frankly, pretty terrifying all-around. The straightforward nature of the vocal is probably why.
4. (outside Top 2000) "Loser" - Beck: Fun, not one of his very best, out of its league here.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. (Top 20) "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder: His masterpiece, an absolute tour de force of prime '70s soul. And I LIKE the "skit" section, yes, it's overdone, but that's the point, and it hadn't really been done before quite like that.
2. (Top 1500) "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash: After #1, this is a WEAK bracket. Johnny's fine early track gets 2 by default.
3. (outside Top 2000) "Think" - Aretha Franklin: Solid Aretha. No "Respect".
4. (outside Top 2000) "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground: Maybe my list favorite on VU & Nico? I love 'em, but this has always just annoyed me, and it takes a lot to annoy me.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. (Top 300) "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding: The man wrote his own elegy, and it couldn't have been more soothing to sad souls.
2. (Top 600) "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen: Grandiose in all the best ways, you have to give the man credit for going for it all in.
3. (Top 800) "Live Forever" - Oasis: Still their best, just a fine soaring rock song with one of rock's most definitive subjects.
4. (Top 2000) "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones: Really good song of course, but I go for their deeper cuts these days.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET (Shazbot, what a bracket!)
1. (Top 50) "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes: Girl group/songwriting/production in excelsis.
2. (Top 400) "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles: Not as quite mind-shattering to me as it was when I was 12, but this is of course still a fantastic bit of boundary-pushing. The crescendoing chaotic orchestra makes it...listen for the individual instruments, must've been a fun gig...
3. (Top 700) "Hey Ya!" - OutKast: Painful to have this at 3, but what are you gonna do at this point?
4. (Top 700) "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience: REALLY painful to have this here. It takes a lot to absolutely crush a Dylan version, but Jimi defined this as his own. Oh well SHTB4.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

I'd say the single biggest thing with Stevie Wonder is that so many of his later lyrics don't suit the accompanying atmosphere of the music and vice versa (I Wish, as I have already explained, being the biggest example).

I don't get this criticism...sometimes that kind of juxtaposition is far more effective than the obvious.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Other than Living For The City and Higher Ground I don't really like Stevie Wonder's lyrics. Except for the few exceptions where he's being passionate about racial justice, I find anything he writes unbearably schmaltzy.

Every time I hear "You put some joy inside my tears!" I try to imagine where joy would be stored inside tears, and how doing so would result in the cause of those tears being relieved. He's usually just trying to string together a few pleasant sounding sentences without thinking about them much or putting any greater vision or emotion into them.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

sonofsamiam
I'd say the single biggest thing with Stevie Wonder is that so many of his later lyrics don't suit the accompanying atmosphere of the music and vice versa (I Wish, as I have already explained, being the biggest example).

I don't get this criticism...sometimes that kind of juxtaposition is far more effective than the obvious.


But definitely not in the case of I Wish. Just my opinion.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder: Lots of great songs this week, but easy #1’s for me in all four brackets, starting with one of the greatest singles of all time and one of Stevie’s two very best tracks.
2. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin: A cover of a truly great original that manages to top it, and then some. A perfect record, almost as good as #1, but its massive overexposure works against it.
3. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience: Another transcendent cover, in this case one that utterly obliterates all other versions.
4. "Loser" – Beck: As I’ve said many times, I highly doubt anyone at the time could have envisioned ODELAY (let alone SEA CHANGE) coming from the guy who did this. I still think it’s a great record, but it couldn’t be an easier choice for #4 here.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder: The other one of his two very best, of course, a magnificent epic that’s both soaring and heartbreaking.
2. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground: Not necessarily their best (although it’s up there), but maybe their most prototypical – if someone who’d never heard the Velvets wanted to know what they sounded like, this is probably the song you’d play.
3. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash: Big dropoff between the top and bottom two here. Nothing against the MiB and the QoS, but both of these songs were lucky to make it this far.
4. "Think" - Aretha Franklin: As I’ve said, a terrific single, but I don’t think it can be argued that it owes a huge amount of its popularity to THE BLUES BROTHERS.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen: The sound of a man who thinks he might never get the chance to make another record – and at the time, that may have been a genuine concern. Keep in mind the next time you hear it that it could have been even better – it was recorded before Max Weinberg and Roy Bittan were in the band.
2. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding: All I can do is keep repeating the same things I usually write: Simple. Spare. Timeless.
3. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones: Hard to believe I’m placing a song as iconic as this – the single that jumpstarted them into the finest phase of their career – at #3.
4. "Live Forever" – Oasis: My favorite of theirs, but so ridiculously easy a #4 in this company that it doesn’t merit an SH2B.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles: An outstanding top-to-bottom bracket; honestly, I wouldn’t mind seeing all four of these in the semis, if that were possible. But the Beatles’ magnum opus still towers above the rest.
2. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience: It’s interesting that both of Jimi’s entries this week are covers; here, he had the balls to take on one of the master’s best songs less than a year after the original but the brilliance to thoroughly take possession of it. Still the gold standard for Dylan covers.
3. "Hey Ya!" – OutKast: Seven years out, it’s standing the test of time quite nicely, thanks to its one-of-a-kind mix of catchiness, thoughtfulness and sheer unpredictable weirdness.
4. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes: Hal Blaine’s finest hour, for both that iconic opening and those astonishing fills toward the end. The greatest session drummer ever was the backbone of the Wall of Sound, and merits a salute here in SH2-land.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET - Difficult vote here. All good songs, and the first 3 could have been number first.
1) "Loser" - Beck: A nice grower, although far from being the best Beck song. One of the interesting things here is that it contains one of the best vocals he has recorded. I also love the combination of his usual rap style of singing, the echoing beat and the indian sample in the background; it really gives the song a full climate. It's good to see Beck has an unanimous song that's become his signature. Anyway, in Odelay alone you can find lots of tracks better than this one. That says something about how much I like that album.
2) "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder: Another overrated track from another favorite artist of mine. Funky Stevie has been much better in other ocasions (I Wish, Sir Duke, Too High), even though I like this one. This is one of those tracks I love 50% of the times I hear it, and am indiferent in the other half. Much of what makes me like it those times is fruit of its great arrangments. All that's missing in my #3, here is in overplus.
3) "Respect" - Aretha Franklin: I don't agree with the level of its acclaim, but, really, it is an awesome track! Sixties soul elevated to its best. Rithmycally it's delicious, and the structure of the song makes it continue enjoyable even after inumerous listens. Not to tell about Aretha's astonishing vocal, filling up almost all the gaps that the production wasn't able to. And, btw, that is the only bad thing about the song: the production is so empty, uncreative and silly that it almost hurts the overall quality of the piece.
4) "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience: Good song, with moving vocal, melody and specially those backing vocals.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1) "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder: Now we the real great Stevie Wonder. An absolute masterpiece, from its slight and melodic beggining to the grandeur of its ending. His one and only epic track, going totally out of the style he's usually know for. And I'm still to understand how he was able to sing that hoarse after the "nigger god" part.
2) "Think" - Aretha Franklin: I had never heart this track before, and it's the first time in this round I put an unknown song out of 3rd or 4th places. I must say I was impressed by it. Everything good about Respect and her other tracks that I know is appears to be better here!
3) "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground: The anxiety feeling of the wait, brought specially by the piano chords, makes up for an interesting song. I must admit, though, that I prefer Oasis' Mucky Fingers, which is totally dirived from this track.
4) I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash: Nothing special about this song, except for Johnny's voice of course. It's no bad, but it's also no semifinalist.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET - Another incredible block, like the one with Strawberry Fields in week 2.
1) "Live Forever" - Oasis: I know it has no chance against Dock of the Bay and Born to Run, but only the fact that it's achieved round 3 is already a victory. If I have said how savourless Wonderwall is, this one is totally the opposite. Definitely Maybe (my # 3 album of all time) is much of an urgent noise oriented rock album, but it's centerpiece, that is Live Forever, is a touching Beatles-esque track, with an emblematic and tripping riff, and a melody that soars into skies. Am I being exagerated? Totally yes, given the fan that I am of this group. Oasis best song? Maybeee...
2) "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen: Almost put this in number one. One of the most auspicious songs I know. Yes, it is pretentious, but all its objectives are perfectly achieved. Bruce wanted to be great, intense and complex here. Well, he got there. Woudn't mind if it ended the tournament as the great winner.
3) "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones: Pure rock'n'roll bliss! Much more a definition of the genre than the over-hypped Satisfaction.
4) "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding: I like its calm and contemplative spirit. We use to find it much more in other music genres than in soul. Doesn't stand up against the other three, though.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1) "Hey Ya!" - OutKast: Another Outkast song that I put at number first, and this manages to be even better than B.O.B. There's lots to say about it: the quotable lyrics, the inventive second half, the delicious synth in the refrain, etc. All that I know is that decades from now this will be seen as the definitive '00s song. I love Paper Planes, probably more than this one, but it won't be able to hold up a classic status the way this will.
2) "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience: His only song in this round that I didn't put #4. Don't know how to explain but this track is fucking good, man!
3) "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes: In my childhood when I used to watch Dirty Dancing some times and listen to it's famous soundtrack CD, I always thought about this song: "I don't like it, but unfortunately I'm sure everybody must consider this the best track of the disc!". And then I discovered it really was. Today, though, I enjoy it, with it's primer use of the wall-of-sound, and the so-talked drum intro. Anyway, discovering it was the all time #12 some years ago was one of my biggest surprises about AM list. And although I truly like the song nowadays, I still can't understand it's placement!
4) "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles: Given the number of Beatles songs that are among my favorites, it's quite frustrating that among the ones which achieved round 3, the only one I truly like is Strawberry Fields Forever. This one, more specifically is the quartet most overrated piece of music. It is not all that bad, but I could think about at least 150 songs of them that are way better than it.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Damn, almost missed the last quarterfinal matchups. Glad I extended this week by a day...

WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
2. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
3. "Loser" - Beck
4. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin

This isn't meant to imply that "Respect" is a bad song. It's just that this bracket is stacked from top to bottom. Today, I'm giving the nod to Stevie, but on any other day I could give it to any of the other three. They're all that close. I'll put Wonder first today, if only because I've got a soft spot for the drumming in that, not to mention the little "ow" that Stevie lets out in the middle of the bridge. Hendrix goes second because it's just such an incendiary track. Slow-burner might be a better word. "Loser" comes third because it's just so bizarre, but even its strangeness all seems to make sense within the context. It's a mess, but it's a beautiful mess. Which leaves "Respect," but SHTB4.

SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder
2. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash
3. "Think" - Aretha Franklin
4. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground

I'll go with Stevie again here. "Living" is one of those tracks that is just complete. There isn't a single note out of place, the message is deep, and the music is accordingly complex. Cash goes second because, as (I think it was) Harold noted in a previous round, none of the verses is in the same key, yet it's always the "right" key, somehow. "Think" is top-notch Aretha, but it's hardly strong enough to deserve a spot in the Final 16. As for the VU, I love the song, but it doesn't have the same impact outside of its album as it does as part of the whole.

HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen
2. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones
3. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding
4. "Live Forever" - Oasis

It's a rock song, but it's also an amazing pop song, and that makes "Born to Run" an outstanding piece of music. Pop perfection in a rock song. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" is top-notch Stones, and I won't complain if it wins. As for "Dock," the song has just never struck me as being that great. It's good, but I just don't get all the hype. Which leaves Oasis, and I'm just not that hot on this song.

BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes
2. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast
3. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
4. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles

"Be My Baby" is quite possibly in the top ten of my all-time favorite songs. Spector's production seals it, but the vocals are oh-so-wonderful as well. OutKast comes in second for creating one of the happiest and most danceable hip-hop songs ever, and those handclaps are just so infectious. Hendrix's cover of Dylan is iconic, to be sure, but I just happen to prefer the other two. The Beatles magnum opus (to my way of thinking) is just a victim of a killer bracket. SHTB4, and damn if it doesn't pain me to put this one there.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Voting for this week is now over.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

After reading some of the week's posts about lyrics, I have to ask: Why are lyrics so valued in this forum? I find the music to be much more important than the words, and looking at some of the songs off The VU and Nico, the lyrics aren't exactly amazing,and in some spots awful, yet the album is accepted as one of the best.
I don't think lyrics should be so valued, but that's just me.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Listyguy
After reading some of the week's posts about lyrics, I have to ask: Why are lyrics so valued in this forum? I find the music to be much more important than the words, and looking at some of the songs off The VU and Nico, the lyrics aren't exactly amazing,and in some spots awful, yet the album is accepted as one of the best.
I don't think lyrics should be so valued, but that's just me.


If an artist contributes great lyrics this should be acknowledged and appreciated as a key component of songwriting artistry. But, in my view the absence of astounding lyrics should not be the sole basis for disregarding an otherwise impressive composition or performance. Still, lyrical quality is a critical meritorious factor in assessing the overall quality of a musical performance; and cannot be completely ignored. Finally, lyrical quality is somewhat subjective - so one should not judge a song conclusively based on one's subjective view of lyrical quality.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Listyguy
After reading some of the week's posts about lyrics, I have to ask: Why are lyrics so valued in this forum? I find the music to be much more important than the words, and looking at some of the songs off The VU and Nico, the lyrics aren't exactly amazing,and in some spots awful, yet the album is accepted as one of the best.
I don't think lyrics should be so valued, but that's just me.


What VU & Nico lyrics are awful? "Heroin" is generally regarded to be one of rock's great lyrical performances, and "Venus in Furs" and "Sunday Morning" are fantastic too.

To me, lyrics can add a lot to a song, but bad or undistinguished lyrics don't take anything away from great music. I like a lot of Krautrock and prog songs despite insignificant or bad lyrics, yet great lyrics are a major factor in my enjoyment of artists like The Kinks, Leonard Cohen, and Neil Young.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Jackson
Listyguy
After reading some of the week's posts about lyrics, I have to ask: Why are lyrics so valued in this forum? I find the music to be much more important than the words, and looking at some of the songs off The VU and Nico, the lyrics aren't exactly amazing,and in some spots awful, yet the album is accepted as one of the best.
I don't think lyrics should be so valued, but that's just me.


What VU & Nico lyrics are awful? "Heroin" is generally regarded to be one of rock's great lyrical performances, and "Venus in Furs" and "Sunday Morning" are fantastic too.

To me, lyrics can add a lot to a song, but bad or undistinguished lyrics don't take anything away from great music. I like a lot of Krautrock and prog songs despite insignificant or bad lyrics, yet great lyrics are a major factor in my enjoyment of artists like The Kinks, Leonard Cohen, and Neil Young.


I would greatly appreciate it if you would indicate which Neil Young songs you believe provide the best examples of his lyrical prowess.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Lyrics only matter if they're really good or really bad.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Jackson- I was not dising Herion in any way, that song has excellent lyrics. But, look at "European Son":
"You spit on those under 21 / But now your blue car's gone"
I agree that Niel Young and the Kinks have great lyrics (Excluding Lola, of course).
Some of Neil's best lyrics: "It's Better Burn Out / Than to Fade Away / / Once You're Gone You Can Never Come Back / ONce Your Out of the Blue and Into the Black"
That song is awesome.
On the note of bad lyrics, look at Smells Like Teen Spirit. That song has the most druged up lyrics I've ever heard, yet you have to love it.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Henry

I would greatly appreciate it if you would indicate which Neil Young songs you believe provide the best examples of his lyrical prowess.


The entire On the Beach album, especially the title track and "Ambulance Blues," completely revamped my perception of Neil's lyrical abilities. As far as his big singles go, "Rockin' in the Free World" has surprisingly good lyrics for a stadium rock anthem.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

"Piece of Crap": Best lyrics ever.

The only time I don't like Neil Young lyrics is when they get holier than thou. Unfortunately, they do that a lot lately.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

BillAdama
Lyrics only matter if they're really good or really bad.


That's pretty close to the truth I think. In the end it's the music that matters and in general musicians do a better job at making music than writing lyrics.

There definitely are some exceptions, but for texts, I prefer real writers.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

I agree with lyrics being secondary. I don't find it fair to piss on someone who was born already a music genius only because (s)he isn't able to write that good lyrics. Think about the great classic composers, who generally made instrumental music; everybody knows about their natural talent, and imagine if they had been popular music composers of nowadays, would it be right to diminish their value as artists if their music was infused with bad lyrics?

Of course generally better music comes in company of better lyrics, and vice-versa. Even because the deeper or sincerer is the subject, the higher is the probability of the resulting music follow the same feeling, but that's not always the rule.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

In what appears a contradiction to my argument earlier, I think lyrics bear no relevance whatsoever to how good a song can be. In fact, there are absolutely no set criteria for what makes a good song, other than that there is a listener who appreciates it.

Stevie Wonder doesn't need awe-inspiring, technically proficient lyrics to make a good song; I'm saying that, in some songs (like Superstition), the lyrics actually detract from the music. There's no question that this is certainly an effect they can have, as well as improving a song. How many people can't stand Panic! at the Disco or Fall Out Boy at least in part for their poorly crafted, gushing lyrics conceptualising a pretence of teen anxst?

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

RESULTS!





WAGNER BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder (34 points, 5 first-place votes)
2. "Hey Joe" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience (28, 2)
3. "Respect" - Aretha Franklin (27, 2)
4. "Loser" - Beck (21, 2)

This was tight all week long, until Stevie pulled away at the end to put "Superstition" into the semifinals. Four of the last five ballots had Mr. Wonder in the top spot.


SCHUBERT BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder (38, 8)
2. "I'm Waiting for the Man" - The Velvet Underground (25, 2)
3. "Think" - Aretha Franklin (25, 1)
4. "I Walk the Line" - Johnny Cash (22, 0)

The week's biggest blowout goes to Stevie Wonder, who wins this bracket by a whopping thirteen points. Aretha is now out of the competition after going oh-for-two this week.


HAYDN BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen (34, 4)
2. "(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay" - Otis Redding (33, 4)
3. "Jumpin' Jack Flash" - The Rolling Stones (22, 1)
4. "Live Forever" - Oasis (21, 2)

The week's closest bracket goes to the Boss. This one came down to the very last vote, with Bruce pushing into the top spot at the last moment.


BRAHMS BLOC, FINAL BRACKET
1. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience (35, 5)
2. "Be My Baby" - The Ronettes (27, 3)
3. "Hey Ya!" - OutKast (25, 1)
4. "A Day in the Life" - The Beatles (23, 2)

The last song to make the semifinals goes to the Jimi Hendrix Experience. No other song was ever able to make a serious run at the top spot, and Hendrix coasted into Round 4.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

And here are your complete semifinals...



SEMIFINAL 1

#1. "Like a Rolling Stone" - Bob Dylan
#104. "Space Oddity" - David Bowie
#120. "Yesterday" - The Beatles
#305. "Paranoid Android" - Radiohead


SEMIFINAL 2

#356. "B.O.B." - OutKast
#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
#44. "When Doves Cry" - Prince & the Revolution
#84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience


SEMIFINAL 3

#3. "Good Vibrations" - The Beach Boys
#59. "'Heroes'" - David Bowie
#331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder
#51. "God Only Knows" - The Beach Boys


SEMIFINAL 4

#130. "Gimme Shelter" - The Rolling Stones
#26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen
#10. "Stairway to Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
#50. "Common People" - Pulp

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Matt Schroeder
And here are your complete semifinals...



SEMIFINAL 1

#1. "Like a Rolling Stone" - Bob Dylan
#104. "Space Oddity" - David Bowie
#120. "Yesterday" - The Beatles
#305. "Paranoid Android" - Radiohead


SEMIFINAL 2

#356. "B.O.B." - OutKast
#37. "Superstition" - Stevie Wonder
#44. "When Doves Cry" - Prince & the Revolution
#84. "All Along the Watchtower" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience


SEMIFINAL 3

#3. "Good Vibrations" - The Beach Boys
#59. "'Heroes'" - David Bowie
#331. "Living for the City" - Stevie Wonder
#51. "God Only Knows" - The Beach Boys


SEMIFINAL 4

#130. "Gimme Shelter" - The Rolling Stones
#26. "Born to Run" - Bruce Springsteen
#10. "Stairway to Heaven" - Led Zeppelin
#50. "Common People" - Pulp


Semifinals 2 and 3 are loaded. Semifinal 4 is a joke for me! I wish Otis Redding had pulled it off so I could at least anoint a worthy winner!

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Who would have thought "A Day in the Life" would fail to make the top 16, much less finish last in this round?

It is unfortunate that this makes "Yesterday" the highest-placing Beatles song, an opinion almost nobody on this forum actually has. Also, the decade breakdown of the top 16 is extremely unbalanced (with only 1 80s, 2 90s, and 1 00s song), but I guess with the extremely high quality of most of the songs, I don't have a big problem with that.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

At least 12 of these 16 are among my all time favorites. It is a shame Yesterday is the only Beatles song to make it, but it got one of the easier draws in the tournament. It kept slipping through by virtue of nobody strongly objecting to it.

For me semifinal 4 is entirely in my top 20 songs ever.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

BillAdama
At least 12 of these 16 are among my all time favorites. It is a shame Yesterday is the only Beatles song to make it, but it got one of the easier draws in the tournament. It kept slipping through by virtue of nobody strongly objecting to it.

For me semifinal 4 is entirely in my top 20 songs ever.


Semifinal 4 is the strongest in my view as well.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Otis was so close!!!!! ARGGHHHH!!!!
At least Jimi made it through. Looking at the sweet 16, the only 2 I really don't like at all are BOB and Common People.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Listyguy
Otis was so close!!!!! ARGGHHHH!!!!
At least Jimi made it through. Looking at the sweet 16, the only 2 I really don't like at all are BOB and Common People.


I enjoy all the songs left in the Semifinals. But, the weakest in my view include:

#356. "B.O.B." - OutKast
#59. "'Heroes'" - David Bowie
#104. "Space Oddity" - David Bowie
#50. "Common People" - Pulp
#305. "Paranoid Android" - Radiohead
#44. "When Doves Cry" - Prince & the Revolution

The rest are extremely strong in terms of influence or respect, and/or are among my favorites.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Funny how opinions differ! None of the songs in Semi 4 are anywhere close to my top 2000.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Moonbeam
Funny how opinions differ! None of the songs in Semi 4 are anywhere close to my top 2000.

What about When Doves Cry?

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Moonbeam
Funny how opinions differ! None of the songs in Semi 4 are anywhere close to my top 2000.


It is funny, and the Semi 4 songs don't even include any Beatles or Pink Floyd.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

I'm on Moonbeam's side here.

I think Semi 1 is incredibly weak. LARS should coast through.

Semi 2 is great, though I pretty much know what's going to be in what position.

Semi 3 is a beast.

Semi 4 has two classics, one song which I find sickly sweet and then one song I'm not a big fan of.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Every single song in the semifinals is in my top 100, except for "Yesterday" and "Living for the City", which are both in my top 300. Also, three of the songs ("Good Vibrations", "Heroes", and "Common People") are in my top 10 songs of all time. Wow. Strong stuff.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Listyguy
Moonbeam
Funny how opinions differ! None of the songs in Semi 4 are anywhere close to my top 2000.

What about When Doves Cry?


I love it, even if I like about 50 Prince songs more! It will surely have my vote in its bracket.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

One of the biggest divisions in this forum seems to be how much you like guitar rock. A few people (Such as myself) love anything with great guitar riffs, and a few other people don't like guitar rock at all.

I think that was factor 3 or 4 on the factor analysis of the album poll, right after correlation with the overall results and old/new.

Semifinal 4 is a guitar rock arena anthem loaded bracket.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

I absolutely love guitar rock, but would only categorise Gimme Shelter and Stairway to Heaven as such genuinely.

Also, when I say I love guitar rock, what immediately comes into my head is British Invasion, Garage and Punk - just raw guitars. Though I particularly like Gimme Shelter and rate Stairway highly, I instead see these as representative of the grandiose rock anthems which dominated the 70s, the album decade. I notice that, out of the top 16, only All Along the Watchtower comes close to the short, snappy, pure-guitar-no-frills songs I'm talking about.

Simplicity is, of course, their biggest downfall when facing the so-called cream, but that's what makes so many of them (Maybellene, Louie Louie, You Really Got Me, I Can't Explain, Gloria, Day Tripper, Wild Thing, Blitzkrieg Bop, Debaser, Fell in Love with a Girl, Last Nite) so incredible. Just the bare necessities, but always awesomely infectious.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

BillAdama
One of the biggest divisions in this forum seems to be how much you like guitar rock. A few people (Such as myself) love anything with great guitar riffs, and a few other people don't like guitar rock at all.

I think that was factor 3 or 4 on the factor analysis of the album poll, right after correlation with the overall results and old/new.

Semifinal 4 is a guitar rock arena anthem loaded bracket.


I love a lot of guitar rock! I just prefer it if it's glam or punk or post-punk or new wave, or even hair metal!

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Being a guitarist, I love guitar rock, but I like pretty much anything. Despite this, I don't like Ace of Spades, which I don't even get.

Re: Bracketology, Round 3, Week 4

Henry
Listyguy
Otis was so close!!!!! ARGGHHHH!!!!
At least Jimi made it through. Looking at the sweet 16, the only 2 I really don't like at all are BOB and Common People.


I enjoy all the songs left in the Semifinals. But, the weakest in my view include:

#356. "B.O.B." - OutKast
#59. "'Heroes'" - David Bowie
#104. "Space Oddity" - David Bowie
#50. "Common People" - Pulp
#305. "Paranoid Android" - Radiohead
#44. "When Doves Cry" - Prince & the Revolution

The rest are extremely strong in terms of influence or respect, and/or are among my favorites.


Replace Heroes by Stairway to Heaven and you have my 6 favorite songs of the semi !