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UMT 4.6...

David Bowie vs. T. Rex
Joy Division vs. The Smiths
Rod Stewart vs. Al Green
The Kinks vs. Creedence Clearwater Revival
Bruce Springsteen vs. LL Cool J
Neil Young vs. Paul Simon
Marvin Gaye vs. Peter Gabriel
Bon Jovi vs. Kraftwerk vs. Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths (Ouch, tough matchup)
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Al Green
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Kraftwerk

The best 16 (well, 17) artists I've seen so far in this game. Eleven of the artists are in my top 100 including all the ones I'm voting for plus T. Rex, Joy Division and Sonic Youth. The only ones I rarely listen to are LL Cool J and Bon Jovi.

Re: UMT 4.6...

BOWIE--
I like T. Rex, alot, but they can not compete against just Ziggy by itself...

THE SMITHS--
Tough vote, it's hard to really like one without the other...

AL GREEN--
Rod has drifted along without major competition, until now...

CCR--
Another difficult choice. It's rediculous to think how many songs CCR had in such a short time...

BRUCE--
If he beat Public Enemy, you would think he should beat LL...

NEIL YOUNG--
Never really cared for Paul Simon...

MARVIN--
Third really difficult matchup of the day. I would take Joy Division, The Kinks and Peter Gabriel in so many other matchups...

SONIC YOUTH--
Bon Jovi's blessing in disguise, a split vote between Kraftwer and Sonic Youth fans...

Re: UMT 4.6...

T. Rex
pass
Rod Stewart
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Bruce Springsteen
Paul Simon
Peter Gabriel
Bon Jovi

Some tough picks this round...

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Tough vote.
Al Green
Weak matchup for the 4th round.
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Easy vote.
Neil Young
Not too much into Paul Simon's solo stuff.
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth
Easy vote. I'm concerned Kraftwerk is going to Nader SY here.

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Al Green
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

Ridiculously strong bracket.

David Bowie (19) vs. T. Rex (12)
Joy Division (16) vs. The Smiths (17)
Rod Stewart (14) vs. Al Green (13)
The Kinks (18) vs. Creedence Clearwater Revival (18) - Heartbreaking.
Bruce Springsteen (20) vs. LL Cool J (9)
Neil Young (19) vs. Paul Simon (17)
Marvin Gaye (17) vs. Peter Gabriel (16)
Bon Jovi (11) vs. Kraftwerk (14) vs. Sonic Youth (12)

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie 19, T. Rex 16
The Smiths 17, Joy Division 16
Al Green 16, Rod Stewart 2
The Kinks 16, Creedence Clearwater Revival 12
Bruce Springsteen 15, LL Cool J 13
Neil Young 16, Paul Simon 14
Marvin Gaye 16, Peter Gabriel 14
Sonic Youth 17, Kraftwerk 14, Bon Jovi 5

So sue me...I still can't stand Rod Stewart.

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Al Green
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

This round hurt...

favorite artist: David Bowie
favorite song: "Ambulence Blues" by Neil Young
favorite album: Ziggy Stardust

Re: UMT 4.6...

count the ouches...

David Bowie
Joy Division (ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch)
pass
The Kinks (ouch ouch ouch)
Bruce
pass
Marvin Gaye
Kraftwerk (ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch [voting against SY not Bon Jovi])

Fav Artist: Brucie, then Kraftwerk
Fav Album: Darkness On The Edge Of Town/Daydream Nation/Ziggy
Fav Song:The Promised Land
FNVF: Sonic Youth

How on earth is it fair that Pixies had to down The White Stripes and Elvis (among others no doubt) and LL Cool J gets to round 4? Ludicrous. Ditto (though less so) with Bon Jovi. Kraftwerk should've taken them out last round, as it's now more likely that SY and Kraftwerk will split the votes...

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Rod Stewart
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Rod Stewart
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
Joy Division
Al Green
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Joy Division vs Smiths is such a heartbreaker; hard to imagine being a fan of one band but not the other. The fact that the winner plays Bowie is even crazier. Here's hoping the Yuuf can take on Bon Jovi even with the 'werk stealing votes.

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Al Green
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Bon Jovi (with underwhelmed apathy)

Re: UMT 4.6...

Bowie
Smiths
Pass
CCR (Really?)
Bruce He better sweep
Niel
Marvin (I've Got to Give it Up To Marvin, He Knows What's Going On, Because He Heard it Through the Grapevine.)
Bon Jovi

Fave: CCR
FNVF: Kinks, Joy Division
Fave Song: Waterloo Sunset
Fave Album: Born in the USA, Sliperry When Wet

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Rod Stewart
CCR
Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

very old school round. no-one released their debut here after I was born, jeez. I'm gonna adopt that 'out of 20' system someone had.

Bowie 20 - T Rex 15
The Smiths 18 - Joy Division 17
-
The Kinks 16 - Creedence 14
Bruce 15 - LL 13
Neil Young 15 - Paul Simon 14
Marvin Gaye 16 - Peter Gabriel 12
Sonic Youth 15 - Bon Jovi 14 - Kraftwerk 14

Re: UMT 4.6...

Zorg
count the ouches...

David Bowie
Joy Division (ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch)
pass
The Kinks (ouch ouch ouch)
Bruce
pass
Marvin Gaye
Kraftwerk (ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch [voting against SY not Bon Jovi)

Fav Artist: Brucie, then Kraftwerk
Fav Album: Darkness On The Edge Of Town/Daydream Nation/Ziggy
Fav Song:The Promised Land
FNVF: Sonic Youth

How on earth is it fair that Pixies had to down The White Stripes and Elvis (among others no doubt) and LL Cool J gets to round 4? Ludicrous. Ditto (though less so) with Bon Jovi. Kraftwerk should've taken them out last round, as it's now more likely that SY and Kraftwerk will split the votes...



Hopefully my plan for having the participants use their top 100 artist lists for seeding will even some of these matchups for next years tournament. There were alot of 4th round matchups in the 2nd & 3rd while a number of artists had easier roads than others...

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie 20, T. Rex 15: What an awesome matchup! I've really come to love Electric Warrior over the past week, and I'm eager to dive into more. However, Bowie is a top 10 artist for me.
The Smiths 19, Joy Division 18: Another fantastic battle! I prefer New Order to Joy Division, but both of these are top 50 artists for me. Strangeways, Here We Come clinches it for The Smiths.
Al Green 14, Rod Stewart 12: I like some of Rod's cheesy 80s stuff ("Forever Young", "Crazy About Her") but his American Songbook stuff is just leaden. I've just recently bought an Al Green comp, and I like it.
The Kinks 12, Creedence Clearwater Revival 12: Another amazing matchup! I'd imagine I'd like both of these artists more if I knew more by them. I bought a budget Kinks comp, so they win by my own rule.
LL Cool J 14, Bruce Springsteen 12: I'll probably be the only AM member who votes this way, but I quite like LL and think he had a solid run for over a decade. Bruce has never really wowed me, although I understand the appeal. I should check his material out more, I think.
Paul Simon 6, Neil Young 6: This is a strategic vote. I don't like either artist really, but I think the winner of LL/Bruce will have an easier time beating Paul Simon.
Marvin Gaye 13, Peter Gabriel 13: Another tough matchup! I probably would have chosen PG, but So turned out to be pretty disappointing for me.
Kraftwerk 19, Sonic Youth 11, Bon Jovi 7: Kraftwerk is utterly amazing, and I really hope they make it through. I only know a few songs by Sonic Youth, but I really like "Kool Thing" and think I'll check them out more. I once liked Bon Jovi, but I'm not that much of a fan since they flirted with contemporary country.

Favorite artist: David Bowie
Favorite artist I didn't vote for: Joy Division
Favorite album: Scary Monsters
Favorite song: "Moonage Daydream"

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Al Green
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

wow first two match ups are very similar
David Bowie
the Smiths
Al Green
the Kinks
Bruce
Paul Simon
Peter Gabriel (hope he avenges his friend Kate Bush)
Sonic Youth

Re: UMT 4.6...

Henrik
The only ones I rarely listen to are LL Cool J and Bon Jovi.
For completeness sake, I forgot to mention Rod.

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
The Smiths
Al Green
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Kraftwerk

Moonbeam, with your tastes I would recommend Bruce's album Born in the U.S.A. as a starting point if you want to explore Springsteen. It has the most hooks and synths of any of his (good) albums.

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
Joy Division
Al Green
The Kinks
pass
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Sonic Youth

Favourite artist/song/album : David Bowie/Moonage Daydream/Ziggy Stardust

Re: UMT 4.6...

Alex D

Moonbeam, with your tastes I would recommend Bruce's album Born in the U.S.A. as a starting point if you want to explore Springsteen. It has the most hooks and synths of any of his (good) albums.


I dislike the title track, but like "Dancing in the Dark". "Glory Days" is also OK.

To be honest, I'm more intrigued by The River and Nebraska. What are your impressions of those?

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
Joy Division
-
Creedence Clearwater Revival
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young (ouch)
Marvin Gaye
Kraftwerk

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie
Joy Division (really tough matchup)
Al Green
The Kinks
Bruce Springsteen
Neil Young
Marvin Gaye
Kraftwerk

Re: UMT 4.6...

David Bowie - T. Rex is a band I need to get to know better. But it's hard to imagine I would ever prefer them to Bowie.
The Smiths - Not a fan of Joy Division.
Al Green - "Young Turks" was the first music video I ever saw.
The Kinks - CCR is a band I am strongly ambivalent about. The Kinks... no abivalence.
Bruce Springsteen
Paul Simon - What a hard choice. My admiration and enjoyment for Young grows every year. After the Goldrush is my #2 album of all time. Simon can be infuriating and inconsistent, and sometimes even embarrassing. But over the arc of their respective solo careers (and I love S&G, Buffalo Springfield, and CSN&Y also) Simon delivered a little more often. His songwriting is just a half level better than Young's, to me.
Marvin Gaye - I like Gabriel, and find Gaye's post- What's Going On work to be unimpressive. But Gaye still wins.
Sonic Youth - I'll be less generous to Bon Jovi now then when I was addressing the young'uns who consider them in the elite class of artists. A SY v. BJ vote is a joke. Actually whoever referred to Kraftwerk as the Nader of this matchup got me thinking. Follow this incredibly strained, an likely wrongheaded analogy. Sonic Youth = Gore: Intelligent, highly skilled technocrat/"musicians' musicians" who people have trouble digesting or enjoying because of their long tangents and wonky presentation, but they may actually be the most talented of their generation. Bon Jovi = Bush: Dumb jocks who get over with a winning smile and the sense that they are the type who you'd like to have a beer with, but absolutely no substance. Kraftwerk = Nader: Ideologically pure purveyors of ascetic material that has no chance of winning over a popular following. In you heart, you thing they might be right, but we have to live in the real world.

Fave this round - The Kinks.
Fave not voted for - Neil Young.

Re: UMT 4.6...

I would much rather have a beer with Thurston Moore than Jon Bon Jovi.

Re: UMT 4.6...

Moonbeam
Alex D

Moonbeam, with your tastes I would recommend Bruce's album Born in the U.S.A. as a starting point if you want to explore Springsteen. It has the most hooks and synths of any of his (good) albums.


I dislike the title track, but like "Dancing in the Dark". "Glory Days" is also OK.

To be honest, I'm more intrigued by The River and Nebraska. What are your impressions of those?


I really don't know The River that well, but I like Nebraska pretty well. It has a reputation for inaccessibility that I think is kind of overrated - even if the production isn't there, Bruce's swagger and personality still are, but darker.

Re: UMT 4.6...

SR
I would much rather have a beer with Thurston Moore than Jon Bon Jovi.


I agree (although JBJ seems like a nice enough guy), and I'd rather have one with Gore than Bush. But the consensus in 2000 among pundits was that Bush won the "who would you rather have a beer with battle," which tells you all you need to know about the state of American political analysis.

Re: UMT 4.6...

Nebraska is my favorite Springsteen album, but I'm not hugely into arena rock. I like the stripped down sound.

Re: UMT 4.6...

Schwah

Sonic Youth - I'll be less generous to Bon Jovi now then when I was addressing the young'uns who consider them in the elite class of artists. A SY v. BJ vote is a joke. Actually whoever referred to Kraftwerk as the Nader of this matchup got me thinking. Follow this incredibly strained, an likely wrongheaded analogy. Sonic Youth = Gore: Intelligent, highly skilled technocrat/"musicians' musicians" who people have trouble digesting or enjoying because of their long tangents and wonky presentation, but they may actually be the most talented of their generation. Bon Jovi = Bush: Dumb jocks who get over with a winning smile and the sense that they are the type who you'd like to have a beer with, but absolutely no substance. Kraftwerk = Nader: Ideologically pure purveyors of ascetic material that has no chance of winning over a popular following. In you heart, you thing they might be right, but we have to live in the real world.


Ha! Brilliant. I like listening to Bon Jovi, but I certainly recognize their music is vapid and visceral. You omitted another obvious connection to Bush - "Wanted Dead or Alive" [as in the cowboy theme, not all this war crime nonsense]

Re: UMT 4.6...

The only really close matchup was our 3-way with Sonic Youth getting 17 votes, Bon Jovi 15 and Kraftwerk with 7...
David Bowie 92.3% / T. Rex 7.7%
The Smiths 78.9% / Joy Division 21.1%
Al Green 71.4% / Rod Stewart 28.6%
CCR 63.9% / The Kinks 36.1%
Bruce Springsteen 84.2% / LL Cool J 15.8%
Neil Young 73.7% / Paul Simon 26.3%
Marvin Gaye 73.7% / Peter Gabriel 26.3%
Sonic Youth 43.6% / Bon Jovi 38.5% / Kraftwerk 17.9%

Re: UMT 4.6...

I can't believe Joy Division and The Kinks got pummeled like that...

Re: UMT 4.6...

I'm not surprised Joy Division lost to The Smiths. I'm surprised, with a 15-10 edge in the AM vote, The Kinks lost by such a margin. This isn't some eclectic band only folks like us have heard of that got one sidedly pummeled by the non-AM, it's The Kinks.

Re: UMT 4.6...

BillAdama
I'm not surprised Joy Division lost to The Smiths. I'm surprised, with a 15-10 edge in the AM vote, The Kinks lost by such a margin. This isn't some eclectic band only folks like us have heard of that got one sidedly pummeled by the non-AM, it's The Kinks.


Though most people know the Kinks, an unfortunate majority know them only for "You Really Got Me" and "Lola," unaware of the incredible six-year run they had in between these hits.

CCR is great, but they have the advantage of almost all their hits being constantly played on classic rock radio.

Re: UMT 4.6...

Jackson
BillAdama
I'm not surprised Joy Division lost to The Smiths. I'm surprised, with a 15-10 edge in the AM vote, The Kinks lost by such a margin. This isn't some eclectic band only folks like us have heard of that got one sidedly pummeled by the non-AM, it's The Kinks.


Though most people know the Kinks, an unfortunate majority know them only for "You Really Got Me" and "Lola," unaware of the incredible six-year run they had in between these hits.

CCR is great, but they have the advantage of almost all their hits being constantly played on classic rock radio.


The Kinks clearly deserve all the acclaim they receive here and elsewhere.
My two part conjecture is that:
1) their strengths include: songwriting/composition, intelligent and catchy lyrics and a somewhat optimistic view of life, and
2) similar to many other supremely talented songwriters and musicians (Dylan and Donald Fagen immediately come to mind), Ray Davies' vocals do not wear well on many listeners and this lack of sustained vocal appeal may be part of the reason why the Kinks' performance in this round disappointed many of you.

For example, the wonderful composition "Stop Your Sobbing" when performed by the Kinks did not do that much for me. But, when I heard Chrissie Hynde's vocal performance the song worked much better for me. But, as many of you have already realized that I have a preference for more conventional vocal styles, so perhaps my conjecture does not explain a large number of the votes for CCR (or against the Kinks). I would enjoy reading other views on the "disappointing" results for the Kinks in this round.

Re: UMT 4.6...

CCR 63.9% / The Kinks 36.1%

CCR still won 22-17 (56.4% to 45.6%) after recounting the votes not 23-13 which I originally had on my tally sheet. I looked over all the other matchups to see if there were any mistakes, luckily no other miscalculations. This means the non-AM vote was 12-2 CCR.

Re: UMT 4.6...

Interesting point, Henry.

But if voters are punishing singers with "non-conventional" styles, well, to be blunt, John Fogerty ain't exactly Smokey Robinson.

I'm also surprised, and disappointed, by the non-AM vote going so heavily against the Kinks. I was also surprised yesterday by the non-AM vote going pretty heavily against Radiohead in favor of AiC.

The Kinks and Radiohead are both bands with a couple of hits and a lot of very, very acclaimed music which more casual music fans don't dig right away--they take a little work (I admit I still haven't reached that tipping point with the Kinks). It looks to me like non-AM voters are failing to back bands like that.