Here's the deal. I live in a very liberal, bohemian town in the mountains. On Friday night, in honor of Valentines day, a local music venue featured local bands playing 69 Love Songs from beginning to end. I was excited to go because it's one of my favorite albums. This particular venue gets pretty good indie bands--Fiery Furnaces were there recently; Beach House is coming there this spring.

So, anyway, here's my thought. When I go there, I feel sort of out of place because I'm surrounded by hipsters. I consider myself a regular, professional guy who just happens to really love music. I started thinking about this forum and how much we all love music. Based on pictures I've seen of frequent posters and the biography threads we've had on here from time to time, it seems like most of the posters on here are also average people who just really love music. I guess I'm getting into sticky territory by using words like average, regular, and hipster. Obviously it's difficult to define average or hipster, but I think most people know what I mean. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. I guess I just found an interesting contrast between the people who, in my mind, post on this forum and the people that I see at indie concerts. Any thoughts? Anyone self-identify as a hipster?

whatever... just don't get intimidated by those hipster costello glasses Greg might wear the day we'll all meet up in brooklyn..

I thought I was coming to Germany? If you're from Brooklyn, I'm much less interested. But I'll be there all the same. Greg must be your brother. I'm sure he's a great guy.

yeah, he is. and then again... no, he actually sucks. the only thing i enjoy with him is watching movies... and brooklyn actually does look a lot like germany - just subtract a couple of trees, hungarian style flavored potato chips and an annoying bunch of cutee_cutee_cutee red squirrels..

wait, i go to school in manhattan! crazy.

anyways, i define "hipster" as any person who just does and likes whatever may be hip at the moment without any regard for personal taste. in other words, they just follow whatever is popular at the time and readily abandon it when it becomes unpopular, but during the peak of "hipness" whatever the object is becomes an obsession. i don't necessarily like its frequent association with things that are "indie" necessarily because i think hipsters can exist outside the indie scenes though there are a lot there. also, personal style isn't really an indication of how much people like music. it's a generational, socioeconomic, and subcultural thing, really. i mean, even i have a flannel shirt and tight jeans!

I suppose that I could be considered a hipster by some people. After all, I post a lot on websites dedicated to music and base at least some of my purchases on such hipstery things as critical acclaim and so forth. It doesn't really bother me if people think I'm a hipster- I just genuinely like what I like.

Agree with that definition.

Well it is true that indie rocks and electro attracks a lot of hipsters because they are "alternative" styles. Hipsters tend to think they're smart if they like something different than the masses.

That doesn't mean you can't genunely love these styles, because there is good, bad, excellent, great, decent and awful music in every genre or style. And that doesn't mean hipsters don't like what they hear. They just don't decide what to listen to, and sometimes they pretend. And sometimes, you know how human nature is, they convince themselves that they like something. Life is much more easier and safer if someone else decides for you.

Just a vocabulary question : Is there a difference in English between "hipster" and "snob" ?

I think snobs genuinely think they're superior because they listen to indie whatever, whereas hipsters seem to be more following the trend.

Oh nj, I love it when you write in English.

I don't think you're a hipster by my definition, Moonbeam. For that reason-you like what you like. My definition of a hipster would be someone who values style over substance.

I think it's unfair to stereotype hipsters. While it is true you can accuse them of only picking out clothes and music to fit in with their social circle, it's also true you can accuse just about anybody of the same thing in one way or another. Heck, in college I played a Buffy the Vampire Slayer tabletop RPG just because the people I wanted to hang out with were doing it. (I hate Buffy the Vampire Slayer!)

I think most of them genuinely like the music they listen to, or at least genuinely dislike mainstream. But more than that, it helps them blend in with the people they genuinely like hanging out with. Which is really the exact same thing mainstreamers do.

I don't know, I can't stand going to shows anymore because it seems like everybody there is just showing up for the scene and to be seen rather than the music. I mean, it is supposed to be a good time, but most of the people at shows just don't care about who's on stage. Why not just go to the bar?

I think one reason you don't see many hipsters on this board is that it's a community that loves the old stuff while looking for the new. We go out of our way to find great music and it doesn't matter how many times it's been played on the radio or what demographic listens to it.

How does anyone here really know what so called "hipsters" like or dislike? Who can really say if they're following the scene or if they genuinely like what they like? What is a hipster anyways? The guy who dresses in flannel, listens to Grizzly Bear, and drinks Pabst Blue Ribbon like water? Is this man a hipster? How does anyone know what a total stranger really feels? People, people don't be so judgmental.

An internet hipster is pretty easy to identify because there is no image masking their disdain for their definition of uncool.

I'd agree with you otherwise, but everytime I go to a show, it's full of people dressed to be seen and hardly any of those people are actually interested in what's happening on stage. But, you are right we shouldn't be judgemental. Rude,self-absorbed people exist in all walks of life, no matter how they dress or what beer they drink.

Nick, please re-read the original post: "I guess I'm getting into sticky territory by using words like average, regular, and hipster. Obviously it's difficult to define average or hipster, but I think most people know what I mean. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. I guess I just found an interesting contrast between the people who, in my mind, post on this forum and the people that I see at indie concerts."

No one is judging. It's just that when I've seen pictures of meetups by members of this forum, they tend to look clean-cut as opposed to hipster. When I go to concerts, it seems like much more of a hipster scene. We can go on all day about definitions, but most people have some sort of idea what clean-cut means and what a hipster is. I just thought it was an interesting contrast and was curious if anyone had any guesses as to the reason.

Does it matter if they're uninterested in the show? Last time I checked, people go to bars and concerts to have a good time, even if they aren't die-hard fans of whatever band is playing. Just because those guys in the skinny jeans are enjoying themselves without staring in adulation at whatever act is onstage doesn't mean they have bad taste, or are trying to be cool, and it shouldn't ruin your perception of what makes a good show. If they didn't like the music, that's the band's fault, not theirs.

As to the topic, yeah, I guess I'm kind of a hipster because I wear cardigans (goodbye flannels, soooo 2008), but I love the Beatles, and they're mainstream so I guess I'm not? Labels like this are self-defeating - the conditions for fitting in are so narrow that no one truly belongs.

I think of San Francisco when I think of hipsters with NYC coming in second

Come on guys, we all know what's a hipster, especially when you reach my age. A hipster is someone who is obsessed by other people's opinion and just can't act without thinking "what do I look like ?"
I understand some of you may find this sort of statement touchy or judgemental, but, hell, if we can't criticize, who are we ? Criticism comes from a greek word which means "to distinguish".
I think most of us out here know there's good music in every style, so we're not ideal candidates for hipsterness.
We're to busy building our own musical gardens. That doesn't mean we never look over the fence to see how the neighboor's garden

I’m certainly not that clean cut and I suppose I could be labeled a hipster if a snap judgment was made, but like everyone else on this forum, I just love music (and I go to shows for the music). I do have a certain style but anyone I know will tell, music is my obsession.

Thats quite poetic Nicolas

Well said Nicolas. Not to mention we all frequent a site that collects critics lists!

For some reason I didn't close this sentence, sorry.

we never look over the fence to peep at the neighbor's garden would have been better

To make analogies in a language which is not your first is nuts

I love it when nicolas does that. He just throws out these (presumably) French analogies and proverbs literally translated to English and they even make sense most of the time.

thanks guys.

In this case, it is not a French proverb, but i had in mind a famous quote by Voltaire "il faut cultiver notre jardin", which means "we have to grow our garden". But the character, Candide, says that after a trip all around the world.

I love analogies, and I think that once translated, even clumsily, they make sense.

I think what's great in this forum is that the gardens can communicate. I mean we all explore and listen to alot of music, and with our own personal filters we just separate the wheat from the chaff that's how we grow our gardens, but living in one's isolated musical world can be sad, and that's why I love this forum where every one learns from the others.

Amen, brother Nicolas has spoken

amen indeed!

Yeah Greg sometimes I think I should have been a preacher but here in my Catholic France, priest = no women, so I guess I made the right choice after all

A good song about hipsters and snobs :"J' suis nob" by Boris Vian (English translation provided)

here in the 50s recommendations thread

It also translates well as one of the greatest musical theater numbers ever.

I don't understand John

That's it. I didn't know there was a musical theater piece of Candide.

yeah, sure. although.. i still sense the presence of some Monsieur De Gree who eventually tried to pull up some garden fence between the "rootsy" and the "artsy" harvest stuff...

i seriously hope it wasn't Cole McCold..