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Four Chords, 36 Songs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4_f6pfabQk&feature=related

"There are only so many combinations of notes that a musician can use. It's inevitable that we're going to run out of original songs eventually, hence this video.( www.todaysbigthing.com )"

someone posted this link on facebook. i've heard a couple of people try to argue this point and none of them have been able to convince me that it's anything other than absolutely stupid. i'll just copy and paste what i said on facebook:

"i've heard this arguement before and i don't really think it's true. it's true that many songs use the same chord progressions, but to say that we'll run out of original songs eventually is a stretch. take a simple song like "heart of gold". if neil young hadn't written it, it would be hard to argue that someone else would have..."

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

Assuming a finite number of notes, a specific limit on the permissible length of songs (of any duration of time), and an infinite amount of time to write songs, then it is true that we would eventually run out of unique combinations.

There is no way around it.

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

But precisely the "infinite time" condition supports Moeboids view that for all *practical* purposes there should be quite enough songs still out there waiting to be written for quite a while, doesnt it.

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

The thing that amazes me more is that LYRICALLY, people are still coming up with an infinite number of songs even though the vast majority are on the same basic time-honored themes:

* I would like to have sex with you
* I am currently having sex with you on a regular basis and I enjoy it a great deal
* We are not having sex as much as we used to - why is that?
* I now have no one with whom to have sex and I am sad
* I like my car

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

Harold: You forgot "I am awesome because I have lots of sex".

I disagree with the notion that music is a finite space. Sure, we will eventually run into a wall of supersaturation where it is impossible to write a song that sounds *very much like* some other song. But you assume that there's a finite number of possible instruments, finite number of tones, finite number of variations on notes, finite number of scales. Heck, all we've really explored at all is the twelve note Pythagorean octave.

People generally can't tell the difference between a well tuned piano and a normally tuned one, but play the same notes on a well tuned one, you've got a different song.

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

We're talking western pop music, right?

If so, well... I think it's pretty much common knowledge that there are certain melodies and combinations of notes that the human brain finds pleasing. And to sort of tag Paul's comment... yes, eventually it will reach a point where all the permutations of these 'pleasing' melodies will be used up, but I do think that's a long way down the road from now.

I'm sure most of us have, at one point or another, heard a song that made us go "shit! that sounds exactly like _____ !". But for me, it's equally likely that I'll hear a song that makes me go "shit! that song is amazing! But it's so simple; how has it not been written already?!" Recent examples (to my ears anyway): "Intervention" - Arcade Fire, "Phantom Limb" - The Shins, "Strange Condition" - Pete Yorn.

And then there's "Hey Ya" by OutKast, which is based around the classic G-D-Em-C progression, but nobody ever did THAT with those chords before 2003. Musically, it's about as fucked-up of a pop song as you can get, but it works. (Damn, maybe I should've saved that for bracketology.)

I dunno. I guess what I'm saying is that I think there's still a ton of original pop songs yet to be written. Or who knows, maybe we're closer to the brink than we think. If that's the case though, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

Anthony

And then there's "Hey Ya" by OutKast, which is based around the classic G-D-Em-C progression, but nobody ever did THAT with those chords before 2003.


Not even OutKast themselves, but someone did a nice genuine G-C-D-E 6 bar progression via a follow-up where a bag of sugar fights those stupid polaroids in the auditorium until their herapathites drop out. Just google for that video, it's worth it.

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

i agree with you, but hey ya was a bad example... 'tis a long way from a I, V, vi, IV progression. it's I, IV, IV, V, VI, VI (G-C-C-D-E-E... obviously), and as if that wasn't different enough already, it changes from 4/4 to 2/4 for the D chord. it's really not a standard progression at all...

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

I think it's also worth pointing out that you guys are talking simple melodies here. Just think of all the creative things that people like Beck, Tom Waits and the Pixies have done outside of the standard melody.

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

Moeboid
i agree with you, but hey ya was a bad example... 'tis a long way from a I, V, vi, IV progression. it's I, IV, IV, V, VI, VI (G-C-C-D-E-E... obviously), and as if that wasn't different enough already, it changes from 4/4 to 2/4 for the D chord. it's really not a standard progression at all...


Ok... I used the wrong terminology there.

The point I was trying to make was, they took a pretty standard group of chords (yes, maybe not I, V, vi, IV) and made a huge, original-sounding hit out of it.

Basically, there's still plenty of originality to be milked out of four chords, that's all I'm sayin'.

PS. Isn't it an Em?

Re: Four Chords, 36 Songs

yeah, i thought it was Em too, but everyone on the internet is telling me otherwise.