Some friends where attending a German vehicle rally here in the USA about 19 hours drive away and they ran into a guy that had several project bikes including a BSA M20 which they called me about. I chatted with the owner and over a 24 hour period made arrangements to purchase since my friends had a trailer and could bring it home with them. Thus saving a lot of time and money going to get it or having it shipped to me.
I’ve had a couple of project M20s that I’ve restored in the past but they are all long gone and I haven’t been on the forum for at least a decade. My old posts are still out there but the eMail back then is no longer valid.
This new project bike has a workshop rebuild tag on the valve cover showing engine overhaul in 1954 but still has standard size parts. The front tire still has great tread and is a military WD 1953 postwar original. Odometer only shows 60 miles and the speedo gear and numerous other parts still have lead safety wire seals on them. Scratched paint looks like one of the postwar colors so wondering if this could be a bike sold as surplus that really never got messed with once it came to the USA 50+ years ago?
Last owner was a bike guy and bought it as a future project but he was already too old he says to really do anything with it. He knew it had no spark and bought a Mag gear puller which he included. Gear cover only has two screws so he’d had it off. Front pegs are on backwards in the linked photos so the rear brake could not be connected and the gear change lever would have been obstructed. Fixed those already since it bugged me even though they will come off again in the future. Rear pillion seat is mounted on double panels for some reason even though both are in solid shape and so is the rear fender. Kicks over properly and transmission appears to shift so might have gotten lucky with this purchase.
Starting small and checking little stuff to begin with. Found all three lamp bulbs were still military /|\ Broad Arrow marked. Tested, working, now removed and put away for safe keeping and will install new bulbs inside.
Engine number would be from sometime in 1942 and the frame number from sometime in 1945. Likely a result of the postwar rebuild program.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Still slowly hand sanding the fuel tank looking for markings. So far about four lines of white text starting to appear on the top along with two yellow lines about an inch wide and at least four inches long. Haven't messed with the sides yet for numbers or unit flashes.
Shot linked is the pedestrian cutter and rear number plate. Once removed, I was able to sky-light them and see the markings.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
The bike with frame number WM20.120671 (and matching “duplicated frame number” on the engine) was built under contract S/7218, which was a contract for 10.000 bikes. But because the war was over before the contract was completely delivered, production stopped after 5.869 bikes. The remainder of this contract was cancelled. The frame numbers that were issued for this contract were WM20.116818 - WM20.126817. The allotted census numbers were C5885918 - C5895917. Your bike would have had census number C5889771. First deliveries of this contract took place on 15/5/1945, deliveries were to be expected at 1.500 per month. This means that your bike must have left the factory around July - August 1945. In 1949 the bike was re-numbered 24 YD 09 under the new ERM system. Apparently the engine was rebuilt in 1954, more info on that rebuild plate can be found here. The bike remained in the post war British Army until February 1976, when it was sold off.
By the way, Lex can provide a high res scan of the appropriate KeyCard for a modest sum.
Here's a sister bike, to give you an idea how it looked like when new:
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Hey Jan, appreciate the production and eventual sale date information. Nick had already got me the census and contract numbers earlier in the week but good seeing your information matched it.
I knew about the rebuild program. Same thing happened with jeeps when our older relatives must have decided it would be fun to take all matching machines and mix up the parts so future generations would have a challenge putting them back to original configuration. :wink:
These are shots of the last M20 I did a ground up restoration on. Needed floor space so I could restore a Daimler Scout Car so regrettably had to sell it. It started life as December 1941 bike with a single seat and the small horizontal luggage rack and square number plate on the back. Ended up making it into a later looking '42 which is generally how this new project will end up since it already has most of the needed accessories. We had a Universal Carrier as well back then which also sadly had to go away to make space and provide project money. Such is life when you don't have money...
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
16 Base Vehicle Depot is the familiar BAOR store at Olen so this may be another machine with Belgian Customs seals on it.
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Hey Lex,
I sent you a direct message. I'm on the Welbike site as well if you don't remember. This is my Mark I that I'd previously restored.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Starting the tear down process and figured I should share some of the finds as this bike appears to have been unmolested since its postwar military rebuild in 1954. It was sold out of service with the British Army of the Rhine in 1970 so the last tire change or flat repair was sometime between 1954 and 1970.
These three shots show the speedometer gear with British military wire-tied seal still in place. You can't effectively remove the front wheel without breaking this seal.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Details of the front tire and tube since they are both British War Department marked postwar originals. Tire and tube are both 1953 dated. Spoke liner on the front was red rubber like the tube. The rear tire and heavy duty tube were both Dunlop marked but neither was WD marked or dated. Spoke liner on the rear wheel was black rubber.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Voltage Regulator also still retained its War Department seal.
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Front brakes are the cleanest I've ever seen on any old military motorcycle or other wheeled vehicle. Light surface rust is likely from my having pressure washed the bike last week and it sitting until I could get back to it.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
On the stand and parts are starting to come off. Waiting on mag related parts from the UK and want to test them on the engine before taking anything further off the frame since the controls are still set up. That way I can see if it fit will light, even if it runs really rough. Have thin oil down the spark plug hole which I kick over a few times now and then to slowly get things inside polished up again even though what I've seen so far has been clean and lubricated.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Been a few months since I posted so figured I should update this restoration thread....
Not a pure restoration but pretty much finished with the bike and its running great. Decades of sitting in a non-running state and/or poor storage from previous owners led to the oil tank being Swiss cheese on the bottom (soldered now) and the oil pump lower cover having a hole blowout once I got it running (welded up the monkey metal). Cables, tubes and tires are all new but everything else was simply striped down, painted and reassembled aside from the fuel tank which needed some external work due to numerous dents. Pannier bags are reproductions made by Frank Brown.
Decided to try a Thorspark electronic ignition and not mess with restoration of the mag. Certainly not correct but it really is nice being able to switch on the fuel and give it a single kick resulting in an immediate start and idle. Even my 100 pound youngest daughter can get the bike running with no issues. Mounted a small coil inside the tool box along with a toggle switch to turn its electrical power off when not in use. People that know what they are looking at will notice the switch and that the HT lead passes the mag but doesn't originate from it.
Random shots showing the bike after an initial seven mile test run. Markings are 2nd Oxf & Bucks Light Infantry which were part of the British 6th Airlanding Brigade.
Much appreciation to everyone that offered advise, helped with research and parts, and of course the wealth of information available from this forum and its knowledge base from many years of accumulated searchable message threads.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
David can I just point out, that the "Long" Acumen pillion saddle you have, looks like one of the high type that was fitted to the Ariel W/NG's. The WM20 used the same saddle which had the hinge points riveted in different places. (Would need to see it without the cover, it is possible to alter it). Also the hump should be at the front. It was there to protect the rider's tail bone over rough ground. Regards Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Hey Ron,
Good eye and something I'd noticed and corrected after taking the photos the other day. I'd only just put the saddle covers back on and had been doing my previous test rides sitting only on the springs. The rear could be something swapped out postwar during the rebuild program as the bike didn't appear to have been messed with once released from BAOR storage in the 1970s and only had 60 miles on the odometer. It's part of it now for better or worse.
Added an updated shot showing the rear saddle corrected as it sits stuffed in my shop building.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Here's a couple of shots showing the current fleet. Daimler Scout Car is a 1944 Mark II, Weasel is 1945 but rebuilt by the USA in the early 1950s when they were gearing up for the Korean war, Jeep is a 1941 Willys MB, Truck is a restoration my wife did and its a 1932 Citroen, gun is a live registered PAK40 but I haven't restored the recoil mechanism so we can only shoot heavy blanks, trailers are a standard airborne, 100-gallon water, and a British towed 4.2-Inch mortar which is also registered live. All ground up restorations. Have done many more over the years but you can't keep everything. Still miss my carrier that I restored.
For the weasel, I completely rebuilt the tracks around 14 years ago and it can run like a bat our of hell now. Technically its an M29C but I've never had flotation tanks so have it set up like an earlier model.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Nice line up!
The Weasel was fun, but didn't really fit in with my "British" theme. Although the 79th Armoured Div had some for beach work during the invasion.
My Artillery piece is a 1941 2 pounder (Built by BSA) It was derelict when I got it about 30 years ago. It was a long term work in progress, but it's on a deactivation ticket.
I drove a mates Dingo a few times (pre select gearbox) but never owned one. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Nice looking British gun. I'd really much prefer a British or American 37mm or a 6-pdr myself as I don't collect German but the PAK40 sort of fell in my lap and I couldn't pass on it. It had been outside almost all of its life and other than the barrel, shields and main tubes for the trail, everything was horribly rotten. Took me 18 months to rebuild the carriage, spades and get it functional again since it had been demilled.
The Weasel was something we originally bought for use on our south Texas ranch property since it can't get flat tires. It had come from the Ponderosa ranch in Nevada which had been a working tourist "dude ranch" back in the 1960s and 1970s based on the old Bonanza western TV show. They had cut doors into both sides and made a tailgate in the back for hauling bails of hay in it for horses and cattle. Having a tailgate, the exhaust was all routed out of the lower hull so it was a mess to rebuild.
In keeping the Weasel with the British theme, its marked up for 79th Armoured Division and has one of my operational No 19 W/T sets installed. Representative of a vehicle used in the Netherlands around the time of the Battle of Walcheren which was Operation Infatuate even though most had the float tanks on for the initial landings.
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Snap on the Bulls head! And my 2 pounder out with my Morris and Jeep. Ron
Some old snaps scanned
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Looks like you had a good looking Weasel. I've got four good seats and cushions but never got a set of bows or a top. Morris also looks great. Always loved them and the smaller Austin Tilly trucks. Neither turn up here in the USA very often unfortunately.
The 2-PDR you have would go nicely with the office inside my workshop building. The front of it and my ammunition locker are mocked up to look like an early war home guard bunker painted up to look like a civilian structure to fool enemy reconnaissance aircraft.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Ha Ha. No room in my museum for an office! But since you mentioned a Tilly, here's my Austin.
I also had a WS19 in the Weasel, which is now transferred to my UC. Incidentally, I just refurbed the Holley carb on the Carrier. I ordered a kit from USA on Monday afternoon which arrived by Fedex at 8.30 Wednesday morning. Up and running yesterday.:+1: Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Love the truck! UC looks nicely accessorized as well. Mine was a January '44 production Ford T-16 Universal Carrier. Had it marked up British even though the vast majority were pawned off on the Canadians. It was set up as part of a 4.2-Inch Mortar Carrier Platoon. Pulled the wireless set and it's the one I currently have in the dingo. Carrier ended up going to a private museum in California less the weapons and smoke thrower due to their laws related to live firearms. ATF over here considers the smoke thrower to be a short barrelled rifle which has to be registered the same way we do fully automatic weapons when live.
We're not legal driving tracked vehicles on the pavement over here so the carrier could only really get used at living history events. I can get away with limited driving on the street with the weasel since it has track pads and a much lighter footprint but it doesn't get anywhere near the use as our wheeled vehicles.
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Mine is a 1944 Canadian Ford MK2. Also 43rd Wessex (Local to me here in Dorset).
These things are not safe on metaled roads. I've seen one slide sideways on a roundabout and head towards me on my WM20. Fortunately it got grip before it hit me:scream:
My smoke discharger came from Pennsylvania and we cut down a scruffy WW1 SMLE for the action which is on a deac ticket Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
I did some serious power drifting with my carrier when I had it, not always by choice. Some white knuckle times when its in a turn and suddenly decides to stop turning and ice skates sideways towards a parked car or telephone pole. My father was driving around on a military base in my weasel years ago where we were supposed to do a public show battle later in the day. He went missing so my youngest daughter and I went searching in my jeep and found he had slid off a concrete bridge somehow and almost flipped it over in a small lake. I had to climb in and spin it around into the lake and find a spot I could knock down small trees and bushes to get it out.
My launcher barrel is original along with the barrel nut but the action is one we cut down from a live rifle that had the emergency use only EY markings on it. Its a London Small Arms model from 1908 so gave it a second lease on life. Using a grenade launching blank, it will send an empty steel replica of a smoke generator about 100 yards. Guessing a filled one would go 50-60 yards. Shame you guys have to demill so many historical weapons. My wife, kids and I love getting out to shoot firearms and mortars whenever we can here in Texas.
email (option): flashpoint63@outlook.com
Yes they will still swim,....you just don't want any waves over a few inches high.
My smoke discharger tube is also original and dated 1944. My engineer friend cut and threaded the barrel as yours and copied a nut from one at the nearby Bovington Tank Museum. Strictly speaking it should be deactivated??? It's just a piece of tube FFS!! (We don't have that second amendment!) That's a nice hand butt on yours.....Not included on the British version.
Looks like my mounting bracket has been found in a ditch. I might take it off one day and do something better with it.
Good to chat with someone like minded over the pond. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Yes I agree Rik. Not much else goes on here lately. But here's one of my BSA's....The bike that never was! Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Well, if you guys want to keep the chatter going...
This is a bike I put together around 15 years ago. What an Australian friend called a "Delux" restorations as its what they often saw in OZ where people wiped most of the dirt off a jeep and then painted everything including the pioneer tools all one color as it sat. That way it would look nice to a novice looking to buy a quality running vehicle at a bargain price. It has a Chinese sidecar that someone unknown in the past had flipped over and modified so it would sit on the English side. It originally had some rare early parts on it which I robbed to complete a much more pure 1942 M20. Was sold as it sat with a mix of parts from various wartime years/models, postwar parts and reproduction items.
Paint was a flat OD sold to hunters in rattle cans at a home improvement store. Made sure the buyer really knew what it was (and wasn't) and he didn't care since he had no interest in WWII. Just thought the bike was cool.
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email (option): ronpier@talk21.com