Good afternoon all
Following on from my post Aug 5th and Ron Piers advise, please find the bike info and photos.
Royal Enfield
Engine stamps:- 10140 and CM 5567 (the M is stamped with an inverted W). There is also a stamp on the gearbox casing RRW679.
Frame stamps:- C11700 and CH stamped on both sides of the frame with no visible numbers.

I hope it all makes sensed the photos are ok.
Regards and thanks for any info.
Crookie



I

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

- The WD/C with frame number 11700 (and identical duplicated frame number on the engine, just below the cylinder base) was despatched from the factory on 7/5/1941, destination "War Office".
- The WD/C with frame number 10140 (and identical duplicated frame number on the engine, just below the cylinder base) was despatched from the factory on 25/2/1941, destination "War Office".

Both motorcycles were built under military contract C/7182. This was a contract for 6.000 bikes, with frame numbers 5901 - 11900. The allotted census numbers (RASC) were divided in several blocks: 984216 - 989562, 989614 - 989750, 989801 - 989900, 989926 - 990402. Smart readers will notice that these are more than 6.000 numbers... As is so often the case with the WD/C, things went terribly wrong during the allotment. And C/7182 is a Royal Army Service Corps contract, which means that the census numbers can't be calculated anyway. Considering that the frame number is 200 lower than the last bike from this contract, a census number C990202 won't be far off, but impossible to know for sure.

These are two sister bikes, both in use in training schools:

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Thank you for your help Jan. It sounds as though there was a bit of bike rebuilding and swapping of parts back in the day. :-)

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

This is what happened. During these rebuilds frames, engines and gearboxes all got mixed up.

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

My engine is from the same contract but my frame is from a slightly later contract. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron
What a great looking machine that is. Did you rebuild it yourself??.
The bike that I have is obviously exactly the same as yours but has been abandoned in a tin shed with a leaking corrugated asbestalux roof for 45 years so you can imagine the state of it.. even the spokes had rusted through in places. The same fate as hundreds of other though i fear.
Every bike i have ever restored has been back to concourse or very close to, but I really wanted to leave this one with as much of the years of history still there on inspection but to still have a coat of airforce blue matt paint on it. (in memory of my motorbike mad dad who served in the RAF as a mechanic during the war). I am in bit of a quandary on what it will look like as the wheel rims outside edges, the back luggage rack and other parts are so heavily pitted with corrosion that I'm wondering what it will look like.
My concourse head is telling me to get the body filler out.
My oldest restoration before this was a 1974 T150V Triumph trident so this type of bike is completely new to me, but i must say that I have the biggest grin on my face every time I look at it and I'm sure that I will keep it until long after I can't start the darn thing.
Thank you for your advice ref the bike identification and sharing the photo and info of your bikes history. Amazing that your engine was from the same contract (it's not the one from my bike is it :-) HA HA
I know that at the end of the day its my decision, but I would appreciate any comments you may have bourne of experience around the old war time machines.
Kind regards . Richard

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Yes restored by me Richard. I'm not a "patina" guy. I much prefer the fresh from factory type restoration. There has got to be a compromise between patina and what is actually usable. RAF blue was never used during the war and makes my teeth itch when I see it:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes: All vehicles including RAF and RN were supplied in service colour during hostilities. Does yours still have it's aluminium brake plates? Ron


Here is my genuine RAF WD/CO

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron
Thanks for your reply and comments, I never knew about the service colours and was thinking about the RAF blue as i had seen them before at bike shows and Goodwood Revival. Also my fathers connection with the RAF. Food for thought for me.
I'm very much with you on the bike finish because as I said, all of my other restorations have been showroom finished except very often with Stainless steel fixings with mirror polished heads. (a bit ott and not showroom I know, but I just do things for me). I also find it easier and get on with things quicker if it's done properly. Again, I can feel the body filler coming out.
In answer to your question, I do have both of the Aluminium brake plates both cast with the patern number4090, but the front brake plate with the larger hole just below the cast rib lines (speedo drive?) is badly worn oval therefor, boring and bushing or a replacement would be required.
Would you know if the exhaust spigot in the barrel is screwed in, heat shrunk or brazed and replaceable as mine has a lump missing from the side of it?. Maybe it was cut off at an angle when the exhaust was maybe cut off and discarded. (i need an exhaust and down pipe as well) but most of the main parts are there.

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Pre-war RAF vehicles were indeed painted RAF Blue-Grey and the factory records of Norton at least make reference to this. With the outbreak of war, all vehicle manufacturers went over to "service colour", initially Khaki Green. There were inevitably some early-war deliveries still in blue, but not during the mid 1941 onwards period of the RAF WD/C contracts.

The RAF couldn't wait to drop the dowdy colours and as soon as hostilities ended, they began re-painting but WD/Cs were sold of very early (many to the Enfield factory for reconditioning) and it's unlikley that any were repainted blue. However, it's continued use through the 1950s and 1960s meant that many ex-National Servicemen and indeed wartime servicemen who were not demobbed immediately often tended to think of RAF vehicles as blue. These were often the chaps who were the first to restore WD vehicles in the 1970s and they were encouraged by Airfix model box illustrations and the "Battle of Britain" film which all got it wrong.

The surfeit of glamorous blue vehicles is indeed something that causes those who have researched colours and instructions to clench their teeth !:smile: Blue Jeeps are a favourite. There simply never were any in wartime service conditions.

If your dad was a wartime serviceman then he'd have expected to see motorcycles in the service colour. That said, it's your bike and your choice...but if you do it, please make it a nice dull blue-grey and not the "Lady's Boudoir Blue" that we so often see.

As an aside, you have a later long 60w dynamo. This is not surprising as Lucas seem to have stopped supplying service-exchage 40w dynamos during the early 1950s. It's not a problem at all, unless you're going for a wartime period look.

Richard after any remedial repairs to your brake plate, vapour blasting might restore the finish? Otherwise some high build primer followed by Simonize Wheel silver (Rattle can) will give it an aluminium finish.

I'm pretty sure the front pipe port is cast into the barrel. Have a look at Stuart Bray's site as I think he might have one and is reducing prices to cut back his business.

Although they can't replicate the oval shape of the silencer "Armour Motor Products" make a good lookalike silencer (to my design). Mention my name (military Ron)

I know the "Culprit" at Goodwood. He's actually a very good friend of mine and knows my views on the subject....But we are still good friends. Anyone can do what they like with their own vehicles. :relaxed: Ron

Armour's un-plated lookalike

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Richard yours has the later rear carrier and pillion foot rests that were sometimes retro fitted later in the war. Part of the fitment includes turning the brake arm through 180 degrees and changing the field stand from vertical to horizontal. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron
Photos of the frame minus a missing rusted off bottom stay. Also the pillion seat that also came with the bike.
Don't grind your teeth away over the colour of the rack... it Jenolite rust converter that turns black / purple when it comes into contact with rust. :relaxed: There is also a closer photo of the general rust damage.
Thank you for all your help and advice
Best regards

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Yes I've used Jenolite myself in the past. The missing stay is an easy fix and Jan makes all those parts, including a correct pillion saddle. Yours is a post war civy item. I'm not being critical, just pointing out stuff as I see it.

I bought this last NOS brake plate from Hitchcock's some years ago. Right from under the nose of one of their guys who answers the phone who needed one for his own WDC project, who wasn't aware they had it in stock. :smiling_imp: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Rik
Thank you for your time and knowledge to tell me of the colour changes across time. I'm on an information overload now, but still have months to go before paint and having to make my final decision.
Rest assured that I would never pick any old blue for colour (especially 'Blue rinse' blue or Lady's Boudoir as you so eloquently put it :joy: ). I had previously done a little research on the subject which pointed me toward a colour called P.R.U blue, which is more of a grey really but it looked to be as right. This would of course be matt or maybe a little satin so that it didn't look like undercoat. As yet, still completely un-decided.
As for the dynamo, I'm not sure if it is still serviceable but would probably use the 60W as it would have been an upgrade of sorts i suppose?.



Thanks again for your advise
Regards Crookie.

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Richard from the British Standard 381C range. RAF Blue/Grey is 633. This ebay listing is just an example. Ron

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270907178560?var=570057578600&_ul=GB&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338990947&toolid=10001&customid=eb%3Ag%3Avms%3Aeb%3Ap%3A270907178560-570057578600%3B{GCLID}&loc_physical_ms=9045715&loc_interest_ms=&ad_type=pla&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=21349563577&gbraid=0AAAAADmMgigTKjMYXsHZl-PsqjkwXopcV&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzOvEBhDVARIsADHfJJQciywv8MT86uM_mNyodQEHzmAVM8IQnWZtsV_wzou_jCDq_THfh8saAm40EALw_wcB

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Well done!! You can't beat a legal steal!!. Would it be for sale by any chance at 1941 prices? :thinking_face: :smiley:

Thanks for the colour info Ron. More research required as now.
The P.U.R colour i posted was listed as pre 1956 RAF....

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Hi Ron
Thanks for all of your help with colours and info etc..
Would the front aluminium brake plate be for sale or are you keeping it?
Kind regards
Richard.

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Hi Ron
Would the Aluminium brake plate be for sale??.
I have now made up my mind to go the as supplied finish and not leaving the patina traces. I think that there would be too many new smooth part on it making it look a bit patchwork. 👍

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Sorry Richard I needed it for my rear wheel. I had to plug the speedo hole but you can't see it anyway. Have you got the centre stand? I've got one left with bushes and toggles. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron
No, I don’t have the centre stand and am going to need one.
Hi much do you want for it?

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

I had these cast in malleable steel and machined. The whole kit with post in UK is £280. I won't be repeating the process. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron
Thanks for letting me know about the stand and I am happy with the costs.
Let me know details.
Thanks
Richard

email (option): crookie.r@sky.com

Was very happy to find the 2 alloy brake plates (and wheels) in a very short time in 2018! But have not seen any since.

Here my very early WD/C.







Restoration by Ron and me.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@outlook.com