Hi,
I've been dropping into this wonderful web-site for a while in connection with rebuild infor for my 1939 KM23. I've been lucky in almost always finding exactly the information I need.

However, this time I'm stumped in respect of the length of the lower lifting handle studs 24-5205 (RHS) and 24-5207 (LHS). They are listed on the PES webs-site with lengths 32mm (1 1/4") and 46mm ( 1 13/16" ish) respectively. However, I'm wishing to understand why 24-5207 is 46mm in length when to my untrained eye all it has to do is to support the eyes of the chainguard, lifting handle, vertical stay and rear stay. Is there some other component that is attached to the 24-5207 stud that occupies the extra 14mm of stud length?

I'm guessing that for my M23 I would just use the 32mm 24-5205 for both the LHS & RHS (if not too much of a squeeze to get the chainguard bracket on too).

I'd be grateful for any clarification on the matter.

Many thanks
Nigel

The stud part numbers you are quoting are for military machines fitted with pannier frames which have an extra pannier support tube each side and the thick plate for the prop stand clip on the near side.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Rob,

Thank you for the prompt response and great detailed information you provided. It looks as if the WD prop-stand clip plate is what requires the extra stud length. Looking at all that metal-work for the panniers I see why PES provides the studs in high-tensile material! However, I can now relax and go ahead with the shorter studs for the civvy M23.

Regards
Nigel

The 1939 spares list isn't completely clear.

Lifting stay bottom bolt

Right hand M20 DL M21 DL 15-480/6
Right hand M20 standard M367/6
Right hand M23 28-2338/6
Left hand all above 24-2505/6

24-2505 is illustrated but doesn't give a length.
15-480 is mentioned on page 227 as a headed bolt 5/16 x 1 7/64
M367 is mentioned on page 227 as a headed bolt 5/16 x 1
28-2338 is mentioned on page 227 as a headed bolt 5/16 23/32?

Contract C6126 spares list (pre panniers)

Rear mudguard bottom stay bolt (right hand) 15-480/11
Rear mudguard lifter stay bottom stud (left hand) 24-2505/11

So it looks like it should be a bolt one side and a stud on the other?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

The 1940 spares list is simpler

M20 M21 M23 all the same

Lifting stay, bottom bolt (right hand) 15-480/6
Do.,Do. (Left hand) 24-5205/6

But one says bolt the other says Do. (Ditto) but its a stud?

Clear as mud

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Rob,

Thank you for the great information. That caused me to look online more carefully at the 1940 parts list (thank you Baxter Cycle) and indeed I see that a stud and bolt are listed. Having a stud (24-5205) on the LHS makes sense as there is simply no space behind the lug to fit a nut. The RHS has plenty of space though and maybe that's why a bolt 15-480 was used. Surprisingly there are some 15-480 NOS bolts on EBay currently, EBay item 326000197061, and the dimensions (including plain shank length) look right enough. That it has a spilt pin hole suggests the bolt was repurposed as per normal BSA. Maybe for the WD models they swapped in the 24-5205 stud to make assembly easier with all of the extra fittings to be juggled with.

Nigel

You can see the bolt on this India Office M20.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

perfect!

Hi Nigel

24-5205 - 33mm - 1.29”
24-5207 - 42mm - 1.69”

Br Job

email (option): Jonnyob1atgooglemail.com

For info

25-5205 is also used as the carburettor mounting stud

Jo’b

email (option): Jonnyob1atgooglemail.com

I wonder why the bolt was shorter on the 1939 M23? did it have thinner walled Renolds tubing stays like the M24 frames?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I think on the LHS the only option was to use a stud (24-5205) as the presence of the snail cam on the inside of the lug prevents any protrusion of a bolt or overly long stud(5/16 max). On the RHS for some reason the 15-480 bolt was used but imho another stud was the better idea (as per post 1940?) as it's quite fiddly getting the bolt through the stud eyes and then through the lug. The 'sandwich' on both sides is only the three stays ie. around 3/8".

The KM24 and KM23 rear wheel 'drop-out' castings appear identical with the exception that the M23 version usually includes a sidecar mounting lug. The 531 seat stays and chain stays are really a separate thing but maybe I'm missing the point.

The next time I make some 5/16 studs I'll make some shorter 24-5207's
I have one on my bike and it is too long.
When making things like this you have to act in good faith, when so many versions are mentioned.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com