My late 1942 Matchless G3L (C 5256202 ) has the usual small plate riveted to the nearside crankcase half which bears the number 41-G3L-E701 embossed into it and engine number is 38842, but once I had scraped the paint off, faintly visible underneath is another number 83424.
Can the experts amongst you shed any light on this please ?.
Finally this bike was demobbed in 1960, and it now wears a registration number of that year relating to Glasgow,
again would there have been a regiment (or Raf ) in the vicinity where it might have served
I would love to know anything ,no matter how small of its former life.

Thank you in anticipation

email (option): vaughanmiles@btinternet.com

I always thought that when a replacement new engine was fitted. The riveted plated was stamped with the engines original number. I've no idea what 38842 relates to, but 83424 was from contract S4555 (8000 bikes in 1943 with frame numbers 64070-72069) Non matching frame and engines!

I'm not sure you can use it's registration area as any basis for where it served? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Presumably rebuilt engines were sometimes also fitted with the spare part plate, if they were put into stock and there would then have been an original number prior to that.

I've seen a suggestion that in some remote areas such as the Scottish Islands, vehicles were sold off locally. In general though, at the end of their service, most went back to base depots from where they were sent to auction. It wasn't uncommon for the big London dealers to put machines bought by mail order on the train for buyers a long way away.

I beleive that Lex now has the post-war Matchless Key Cards. They should show where the disposal sale took place. Possibly a pencilled note showing the last unit or depot too.

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Jan,
Thank you for replying ,
Both halves have the same number which is 48802
Vaughan

email (option): vaughanmiles@btinternet.com

No, I mean the frame number, which is stamped on the frame... 😊

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Jan,
That is the frame number, its stamped on the headstock and I,m sure I have seen it on the rear half of the frame as well, somewhere near the seat ?.

email (option): vaughanmiles@btinternet.com

To my Knowledge, the G3L frame number was never stamped on the headstock. It was on the frame above the oil tank. but 48802 would have been from contract S1050 (9000 bikes ordered in 1942) Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Frame number 48802 is a contract S/1050 number. This was a contract for 9.000 bikes, frame numbers were 48060 - 57059, the allotted census numbers were C5255460 - C5264459. Your frame would indeed have had census number C5256202. Deliveries started at the end of May 1943, @ 1.400 bikes per month. Your bike must have been delivered in June 1943. Here's a sister bike (same contract, same spec).



I've checked the Matchless KeyCards, and frame number 48802 is not listed. This would mean that the bike was sold off before 1949, when the KeyCards were made, to link the new ERM numbers with the (now obsolete) old census numbers. You claim that the bike was demobbed in 1960, where did you find that info?

Matchless engine numbers were (frame number + 15.000), so the original engine would have been 41-G3L-63802. The current engine is definitely a replacement engine.

Just like Ron, I also thought that this plate was only fitted to replacement engines, and the serial number would then logically be the either the duplicated frame number, or the original engine number (being the frame number + 15.000). It's getting complicated here, especially since there are two different numbers on your data tag (38842 and 83424)...

I've only got two (blurry) pictures of such a Matchless engine data tag. Any chance of a picture of your data plate Vaughan? You can either post it here, or send it to me so that I can post it.

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Vaughan has just sent me these pictures:





Looks as if the last digit of the frame number 48802 is just hidden from sight by the speedo cable...

But I'm baffled by the first registration on July 1st 1960. The registration number 720BGA confirms this date, the "inversed" sequence (123ABC instead of ABC123) started to appear in the mid to late 1950's, and were superseded by the year suffix system in 1963. If the bike was sold off prior to the new ERM system coming out in 1949, then where did it stay during more than a decade? BGA is indeed a Glasgow B.C. area code by the way. Could this one have been a typo in the KeyCards I wonder?

OK, I can see the very faint number 83242 on the data plate. Don't know what it means, I'd say that the much clearer number 38842 is the one to go by.

So, this definitely raises more new questions than answers! 🧐

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Just been thinking... A typical typo is when two adjacent numbers are inversed. For instance 48208 becoming 48802... And when I check the KeyCards, 48208 is in the list! And what's more: demob date is 15 June 1960, that is two weeks before the first registration of Vaughan's bike! The demob location is "EGG" (must be an abbreviation... 😊 Does anybody know this one?)

As I said, it's just a thought...

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Just found this:
Central Vehicle Depot Eggington .
1950's England: Eggington 33 B Vehicle Depot Derby
. 1962?: Closed
Quite a long way to Glasgow though...

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

A friendly gentleman on HMVF is just telling me that The abbreviation for 33B Vehicle Depot Derby was DBY. I was thinking if it was EGL it was 62nd B Vehicle Depot Eglington in Ayrshire.

Bingo, Ayrshire is close to Glasgow! But that would mean another typo... I'm looking on a transcription of the KeyCards, it's worth having a look on the original cards... (Lex...?)

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

I believe that "EGG" was Egginton Hall, Derbyshsire. It's not uncommon in the motorcycle Key Cards...I don't know if it was an actual auction site or simply an "end of life" vehicle depot ?

And I just noticed that there are far more EGG than EGL entries in the KeyCards. They can not all be typos... 🤨

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

email (option): vaughanmiles@btinternet.com

Only saw this now, will have a look tomorrow or so, have my files with me, but never enough time! more bizzy on holiday then when at home!

But I do make the engine plates, engraved and all.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welb**.net