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BSA M20 contact and info sought.

I have just bought BSA WM20 matching engine and frame no's 119307.
Where can I get info on the tank no and any service history please?
Ps the website and machine register shows it's sister bike 308 in India...

email (option): mike-dodd@hotmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Your bike is (approximately) the 2500th bike from contract S/7218. This was a contract for 10.000 bikes, but because the war was over before the contract was completely delivered, production stopped after 5.869 bikes. The remainder of this contract was cancelled.

The frame numbers that were issued for this contract were WM20.116818 - WM20.126817. The allotted census numbers were C5885918 - C5895917. Your bike would have had census number C5888407.

First deliveries of this contract took place on 15/5/1945, deliveries were to be expected at 1.500 per month. This would mean that your bike was delivered in early July 1945.

A lot of the S/7218 bikes saw service in the post war Dutch Army, see first picture. Some bikes may have been used in the Far East, just prior to VJ day (second picture).

C5887712-NL
C5888416

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Just wondering... Was this information useful?

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Hi Mike

the info Jan sent is interesting, what info do you have on the bike

JB

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Well, I hate to say this, but I'm really fed up with these people who haven't learned to say a polite "Thank you" when they get something (for free!). I love doing this research, but it's so disappointing to see that there is no appreciation at all. Two thousand years ago a wise man (Cicero) once said "Gratia non solum maxima, sed etiam parens omnium virtutum." In English: “Gratitude is not only the greatest of virtues, but the parent of all the others.”

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

I feel for you Jan, it's not a big thing to thank someone.

I have wondered if any info has come to light about my M20 but haven't asked due to the way you have been disrespected.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Please start a new thread Mark, and I'll tell you everything that I can find about your bike!

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Thanks Jan,

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: BSA M20 contract and info sought.

Wow thank you so much. Ive just read this information and I'm blown away!
I don't know much about my bike as it came from a deceased estate.
It seems to have been given a UK registration in 2005 and is listed as not having a previous owner.
I did see it's consecutive frame number on the WM20 website frame and engine number list, that bike is in India.
My bikes mystery life, and your information suggests it did intact end up in the far east (India) then was probably re imported to the UK in the early 2000's.
I've only just seen the reply so don't think too unkindly about me.
I really can't thank you enough.!

Re: BSA M20 contract and info sought.

Wow thank you so much. Ive just read this information and I'm blown away!
I don't know much about my bike as it came from a deceased estate.
It seems to have been given a UK registration in 2005 and is listed as not having a previous owner.
I did see it's consecutive frame number on the WM20 website frame and engine number list, that bike is in India.
My bikes mystery life, and your information suggests it did intact end up in the far east (India) then was probably re imported to the UK in the early 2000's.

I've only just seen the reply so don't think too unkindly about me...

I really can't thank you enough.!

Re: BSA M20 contract and info sought.

Thanks. It was beyond useful.
Sorry that my reply was late I've literally only just seen it.
I'm not one of 'those people' and very much do appreciate the time, knowledge and passion that people like you bring to specialist subjects.
It may take me a while to get my bike on the road but I have big plans for it.
Kindest regards
Mike

Re: BSA M20 contract and info sought.

Thanks for your comments Mike.

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contract and info sought.

Thank you Jan.
As the rebuild goes I may well have many more questions!

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Hi everyone
I was wondering if anybody could help me I have just purchased a wdm20 and dont really know too much , I have a little history but doing some of my own research it doesn’t add up but I am new to the screen so dont really know for sure.
The frame is 36009
Engine 36449 which I have a bsa owners letter of proof they are a pair
It’s a 1939 log book model
I’ve been told the war effort contracted in 1940 and completed contract 1941 but has a cut corner petrol tank which didn’t come in until 1942 so I believe
W/D serial number I was given is C4330585 and contract number of c7287 but they all start with S agin which I think, but putting them all the info together doesn’t make true sense to me

So I would really appreciate some help if possible
Many thanks Steve

email (option): Sauntersconstruction@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Hi Steve,

All a bit confusing I'm afraid... Can you post pictures of these numbers in this thread? Alternatively, can you send me these pictures so that I can post them here? Quite sure that things will become clear then...

Regards,
Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Hi Jan
I have sent the pics of the numbers I think
Im not too good with all this computor stuff
Regards Steve
Appreciate your time and responce

email (option): Sauntersconstruction@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Steve has sent me pictures of the frame- and engine numbers, and a copy of the dating certificate from the BSA Owners Club (dated 7/7/87).

IMG-3699
IMG-3702
IMG-3697

We can be short about the engine number: this is clearly a re-stamped number. Not a lot we can say about this I'm afraid...

The frame number on the other hand is definitely genuine. The bike with frame number WM20.36009 (and identical engine number) has left the BSA factory on April 17th 1941, and was built under military contract C/7287. This was a contract for 17.000 motorcycles, frame numbers WM20.25001 - 42000. The allotted census numbers were C4341593 - 4358592. Your bike would have had census number C4352601 on its tank.

Scherm-afbeelding-2024-09-30-om-22-15-32

Here are the works photographs for this contract, so this is how your bike would have looked like when new:

C4354358-2
C4354358-1

But your frame also appears in the KeyCards. Which means that it served in the post war British Army on the Rhine. (A high res scan of this KeyCard is available from Lex, for a modest sum.)

Scherm-afbeelding-2024-09-30-om-22-21-20

Here we can see that shortly after the war the bike was re-registered "18 YD 38". It was demobbed on November 22nd 1960. It is unclear when the current engine was fitted to this bike, most probably during its civilian life.

Here's a photograph of some other BAOR BSAs, to give you an idea how the bike looked like in its post war military guise:

23YD29

Not visible on the picture above, but BAOR bikes had often been rebuilt umpteen times, and during the rebuilds they were often fitted with later parts and components, such as a petrol tank with a cut-out for the Vokes filter, large carrier with pannier frames, pillion seat etc. Your bike wouldn't have had all these "modern" parts when it was new.

Hope this helps! 😊

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Hi Jan
That’s great news thanks for helping.
Really appreciate letting me know the history and all your findings and your correct in what happens with demob bikes It’s got the panniers and pillion seat but in civi colours 🙄
Thanks again Jan for your help and a speedy response

email (option): Sauntersconstruction@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

My pleasure Steve! 😊

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Jan, although the surviving "Key Cards" appear to be the BAOR set, they were a duplicate of those held by Chilwell and whilst some regions don't seem to be included, UK-based machines certainly were.

It looks to me as if the last user of 18 YD 38 was 928 Ambulance Squadron, Royal Corps of Transport (TA). I believe this was the successor to the wartime 928 Motor Ambulance Column RASC. They appear to have been based in the West of England.

RCT were formed in 1965 (from part of RASC) so the machine appears to have still been in service then.

Does the red annotation not belong to the bike below ?

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

I stand corrected... 😊

Indeed, the red annotation is for the next bike on this card.

@ Steve: while we're at it, are there any other markings, stampings, numbers or data plates to be seen? These could yield more information!

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Hi Jan
I see you and Rik mention key cards I’m a bit new to all this without sounding stupid what is a key card and where do I find it
Thanks Steve

email (option): Sauntersconstruction@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Steve just sent me this picture of another number that he found on his engine:

IMG-3711

98562, doesn't look like a rebuild identification, no idea what it means unfortunately...

As for the KeyCards, these cards were made in 1949 if my memory serves me well. At that time the war time census numbers (style C4567890) were being replaced with the new post war ERM number system (style 12 XY 34). They contain all the new registration numbers in numerical order. Against every ERM number there is the frame number, the old census number and sometimes some demob information. There were KeyCards for all the WD vehicles, Lex is the custodian of the motorcycle KeyCards.

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Thanks for the info Jan.
Now how do I find or contact lex please 😊

email (option): Sauntersconstruction@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Just put Lex in the search box and you'll find him! 😊

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Thanks Jan👍

email (option): Sauntersconstruction@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20 contact and info sought.

Lex has just arrived on a visit to Pennsylvania, but I think he will set up a PC. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

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