Hello guys
Please can somebody help me with identification Triumph engine 3HW 38227, I need number of contract, C ......?
Thanks for help Hans

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz

Hi, 3HW engine numbers usually start at 40xxx and the frame numbers at 30xxx,has it got a brass tag riveted under the magneto platform with part numbers on, it could be part of a batch of spare engines with lower numbers.

Photo below shows a low 3HW engine number,the S not seen on other engines probably stands for "spare".

Photo below shows same engine as above with steel tag riveted under the magneto platform,these tags are also on spare front frames.

Photo below shows a very early engine number pre contract C13948.

Photos below show C13948 engine numbers.

Hi, thanks a lot. The embossing and the size of the numeral and the letters 3 HW exactly match the first photo. Only it is not stamped S. The frame of the motorcycle is TL 41 699, T.E.C. 12.43. All hand controls are Amal, handlebars are 1". Motorcycle found in Italy, unfortunately rebuilt in civilian condition. I am now working on bringing it back to original condition. Thanks for your help.

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz

Hello Jan,
here the numbers of my 3HW :
- frame : 32281
- engine : 42281
- C 13498
- on rear frame (under seat) : T.E.C.9.42.

the bike seems to be from sept. 1942 ...

Y.M. (Belgium)

email (option): yvan_mac@hotmail.com

Hi Yvan, thanks for the info, contract C 13948 was the first?
How were the motorcycles managed before this contract? In my case everything indicates an early version, Amal drivers 1", 8" lamp, short rack. I think, at a later time, there was a "cannibalization" and the motorcycle got a different frame. I would like to restore the motorcycle to 1941-42 form? However, I can't track down a suitable pattern. Thank you all in advance for any help.

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz

Jan if you buy a copy of "British Forces Motorcycles" there is a picture and full description of the early 3HW on pages 187-189.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314126108001?epid=235165543&hash=item4923600561:g:30cAAOSwVjxk7HMc&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8D9GpA1ORtNXavNXEmrWrWN5qIRIpm7QeUy81OJSnzbgjrN7AaYUamPhyrniQNvOBYW8R%2BsQAF79ELfZkpmd02HQTK7oLIkUVo3Rn%2BIyHCSp9Vdwd41UkSmRZYlV97vvXjQ4536xxMGOeF4QaPr3mPTRg8K3YBbtUmsvJKxYkFvPRFARCJErvLuR8rOOOJZeYIalCYdlxd0iu7G8DnFMdyjtHcUiMoidYF6pLopbNygM0ODI%2FcaP5eSEkRAMZ4Gdw%2FSc5%2B2T%2Faci4MI90qgZMvlxv27rnvSSDA76I20xI1cG7Xai1ESXuR%2FskfBCNua7ew%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMqOOsl8hi

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron, ordered, thanks for the tip. Have a good day.

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz

I'm not a Triumph specialist, and away from my books, but the Triumph factory in Coventry where they had been building WD side-valves was destroyed by bombing in late 1940. Although there was some limited production of side-valves at a temporary factory in Warwick, it was not until July 1942 when the new Meriden factory opened that production of the OHV 3HW began.

Rik in O&M. The first contract for 3HW's were ordered in 1941 and supplied from Cape Warwick. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Which contract was that, Ron ? I'm at dad's and have no books at all, not even O&M. The Chilwell Triumph cards are a mess as many of the higher Catalogue Reference numbers seem to have been allocated to older ex-RASC 3SW contracts.

Welcome home Rik!
Contract C12492. 82 bikes for the RAF.

See you on Friday. I'll be hobbling! On top of everything else, I dropped the full weight of my M20 jiffy stand onto my toe when I rolled it off the rear stand. :scream: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Ron, I can see you have deep knowledge. So would it be possible to assign the 3HW 38227 engine to a contract, or are such detailed records not extant? I understand from the above that the engine was manufactured between July and September 1941. My knowledge of WD motorcycles is only general. I have mainly restored wartime WH, (BMW, Zundapp, NSU etc) only now I have built an Ariel W/NG and now recently an Indian 741B. A Triump 3HW is now in the plans. Thanks for the reply.

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz

That first contract has engine numbers 30841-30875 and 40876-40922. So before and after yours. I guess there might be missing records? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ah, great stuff, Ron. I'd forgotten the possibility of an RAF contract. In the Norton ledgers there are some mentions of items such as "RAF Spare Engines" but very incomplete. From 1940 though, Nortons were using the separate AS numbers...The Triumph records are with the VMCC, aren't they ? I don't remember looking at them though so no idea how detailed they are.The problem is that they may have been using numbers from the production sequence but only listing completed machines in the ledgers.

Sorry to hear about your little industrial injury. As long as it only hurts when you laugh... :grinning:

Hi, thanks for the help, I don't think I can pinpoint it, there's nothing I can do. Awesome Indian. Mine is January 1943, shipped (lend lease) to Russia.

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz

To date the bike you would have to look at the frame number, frame number TL 41699 is DEC 43 or JAN 44,Contract No S2956 ,Cat Ref 24,frame numbers TL 41418-46417,I have frame no TL 41542 under saddle stamped T.E.C.12.43. not that far from yours,tank no c5423542 your tank number would be c5423699,it should be fitted with Webb girder forks and cut off petrol tank with steel chain cases.
below a couple of photos from the same contract.

Going back to the engine has it got two small holes under the mag platform where rivets could have once been,still think its a spare engine batch.
below spare engine as listed in parts book,the number is similar to the steel tag engine.

Hey, Steve. Thanks, I understand. I don't think my lineup originally belonged together at all. I'd like to refurbish it based on the engine and most of the parts. The frame is made much later than the rest of the bike. That's why I was trying to track down the engine numbering.
Thanks for the information,I appreciate it.

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz

I would agree with Steve. The Frame is what determines a vehicle. It's the part that the authorities would acquaint the vehicle to. Plus your frame is recorded and therefore much easier to determine the spec. Mine is from the next contract. By then they lost the steering damper and were fitted with the 7/8" handlebar and standardised Amal controls. Ron

PS My 741 is 1942 ex British Forces under the Lend Lease scheme.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thank you both. I'll build it with C 5423699. Thanks again for all your help.
and, military bikes forever...

email (option): hans.41@seznam.cz