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1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Hello ,

I have a car type version of the above which I intend to modify by adding the slot allowing light to illuminate the rear numberplate .
My questions are ..I have 2 sizes of the device and assume the larger one is correct for My purpose ?
Secondly , I have clear lenses but require the red version ..are these available or reproduced please ?
the larger (2" diameter) lamp has the red "telltale" Lucas red medallion .
The smaller is a chromed medallion .
The larger is approx 4 3/4" long .
the smaller is approx 3 3/4" long .
im struggling measuring accurately as My wrist is in plaster .
Thank You in advance ,
Steve..

email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Stephen the car side light version is a Lucas 1130, as fitted to Jags, MG's etc in the 30's. I've made two repro MT 1130's over the years, copied from my original. But I've also come across this article from the Ariel owners club.

http://forum.arielownersmcc.com/viewtopic.php?p=28669#p28669

I'm not aware of a bigger version, although they come in Chrome on Brass or Mazak. (I used the brass ones). The original red lens is rare and hard to find, so for my repros I used special glass paint on the inside of the white glass lens's.

Here is my original MT1130 before I painted it and fitted it to my KC10. The one on the right is my repro on my WC10. Ron

All-C10-023

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DSCF3029


email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Many Thanks Mr Pier ,
That will be very useful to Me when I make a start ..hopefully next month when the plaster comes off .
Is the longer version correct for My needs please ?

Very difficult to tell from the article ?


email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Well as I said, I wasn't aware that there is a longer version? My thinking is that a 1130 is a 1130. Anything else would have a different number.....I think:thinking_face: I'll measure mine tomorrow to confirm. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I think you're correct Ron.

If you want to convert a car side light to a BSA / Ariel motorcycle tail light, you need a chrome on brass body, not the later zamac version. And it should have a red opaque logo.

The original tutorial was published in the Birmingham to Berlin blog, which has long gone. But I copied the important details...

Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-32-49
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-33-02
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-33-11
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-33-19
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-33-30
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-33-40
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-33-47
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-33-57
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-34-05
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-34-15
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-34-24
Schermafbeelding-2012-02-28-om-07-34-37

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

That is correct Jan. The Logo shines red as a tell tale. I've bought repros from Vintage Supplies but I don't see them there now?
https://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/products/516medal-lucas-type-lamp-badge-medallion

I used two coats of this glass paint on the inside of the white lens for the repro lamps I made, as I've never found a suitable alternative Ruby lens. Ron

ALL-C10-032

C10-167

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Thank You Ron ,
Yes both sizes are marked up MT1130 !
Other than size they are identical ..Im guessing the larger one is correct ?

Thank You in advance,
Steve ..

email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Thank You Jan ,
The pair I have here are chrome plated brass but 2 different sizes ?
The larger one from end 2 end including lens is 5"approx .
The smaller one is 4 & 1/4" from end to end approx ..Im struggling measuring accurately as My wrist is in plaster .

The diagrams show all the dimensions except the overall size ?
I am trying to guage this against the authors hand but it could go either way ?

email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Stephen Foster
Thank You Jan ,
The pair I have here are chrome plated brass but 2 different sizes ?
The larger one from end 2 end including lens is 5"approx .
The smaller one is 4 & 1/4" from end to end approx ..Im struggling measuring accurately as My wrist is in plaster .

The diagrams show all the dimensions except the overall size ?
I am trying to guage this against the authors hand but it could go either way ?
Also ,
I wonder if Anyone is reproducing the correct numberplate to accept the 1130 rear lamp please ?
I will be needing this shortly .

email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Stephen the length of my original and subsequent repros is 4 1/4". And Jan has the correct number plates. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Thank You Mr Pier .

I will work on the smaller one then .
I assume the 41/4" is from pointed tip to the front of the lens ?
Jan has been in touch .

email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Ron Pier
Stephen the length of my original and subsequent repros is 4 1/4". And Jan has the correct number plates. Ron
Mr Pier ,
I have sent You an email with pictures of both My 1130 lights .

Thank You ,
Steve ..

email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Yes Steve the overall length is 4 1/4" The other one would be far too big. But you should try and retrieve the red plastic "tell Tale" badge. Ron

SF

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Thank You ,
I aim to preserve the red "tell tail" pendant .
I cant even open the body up yet as I cant close My fingers around a screwdriver ..I know all the internals are present on all 3 lamps but dont know how the pendant is attached into the body yet ?

Just had a thought (rare) but how would You be able to see the "tell tail" ..is way out of vision on the bike I think ?

email (option): s.foster11@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?


"Just had a thought (rare) but how would You be able to see the "tell tail" "

Unless you have a neck like an owl. It will remain one of life's mysteries! Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

If anyone is interested

I have 2 bodies
1 x mazac
1 x chromed brass
1 x white Lens
1 x painted red white Lens
1 x mint original red Lens
Some repro lucas red top pennants
1 x nos Lucas red pennant
Some Lens securing screws in st steel I think

These are surplus to my requirements at this time - would prefer to unload as a lot - swaps considered

Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Are all the bodies the same length ?

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I think so Rik

Can check tomorrow when at the container

Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Hi chaps,

FYI Retro Ignition in the Uk sell repro red tell tales for the 1130 light. £8.36 + VAT.

https://www.lucasignition.com/product/lucas-type-red-dot-for-1130-sidelamps/

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Hi all,

I'm attempting the above conversion of a 1130 car side light. I want to rivet a clear bottom lens in place. Any suggestions for the best type of plastic to use -something that'll not go brittle or yellow too quickly?

Regards,

Craig

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I think that I'd try a piece of Lexan polycarbonate cut from an old helmet visor. Modern visors are probably too thick, but the seventies examples were thin and flexible.

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

As I replaced a couple of cheap MT110's with originals, I just used the rolled up clear plastic from those redundant cheapies. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Thank you both. Polycarb sounds good. 'Hadn't thought of that. I have a covid face shield somewhere...

Regards,

Craig

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I have 2 original mt1130 red lenses.
In the past i have mail some companys who can deliver very nive reproduced white lenses for the 1130 car light.
I asked if it is possible to make the red lenses also ..i think it wouldn.t be a problem that if you can make the white glas to make a red one also...but nobody want to do that...so i stopped with it

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I expect I could make copies of the lenses Roy.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

You work in glass as well Mark? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Transparent plastic Ron.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I had 2 x original new old stock top red indicator lens & 2 x red tail light lens
The repro top lens are awful - at least the ones I have seen

If they are to be copied - I can get high quality photos of the originals if required - they are still local to me
Br
Jo’b

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I'd want to work with the real thing John.
Less chance of mistakes then.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

@ mark.
I can make the lenses also out of red perspex.but the problem is that the outerside should be plane surface and the innerside should have the frosted surface..just like the original lens

I just lasercutted some lenses for the lucas lwdmct1 taillight .
I have a couple of the the covers with the original lens in it..but the lenses couldnt be removed anymore as the lens is brittle and faded after 80 years.

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I thought they were more complicated than that Roy.
As in a patterned surface inside to diffuse the light.
Also being curved.
Flat glass should be easy.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

My fault mark...i mean that the lens is doomed but it is smooth at the outside but at the innerside it is frosted

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

This is the lens Roy is referring too. Ron
94423828-2694369687485994-7098043247506751488-n-2

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

👍 ron

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Still easy to cast.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

You mean casting the red lens mark?

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

That is possible, but it's a study in itself and you need some hardware.
# toploader pottery kiln with controller that can do a cooling path (important)
# supply of modellers plaster and fine quartz sand
# some mould making ability, all info can be found on the net.
# patience.

casting glass available here : https://glasscolor.com/catalog/product/view/id/17373/s/gaffer-orange-red/category/405/

After you manage to cast the part you need grinding and polishing equipment.

so....for the specialist :grimacing: .

better to buy 2 component colorised clear casting from Smooth-On like at this shop :https://www.formx.eu/molding--casting/index.php
more info : https://www.formx.nl/products/pu-harsen/pu-clear-resins/crystal-clear-200----1kg.php

but the easy route can be to opt for a existing clear lens and color it red !
have fun ! succes.

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

The plot is well and truly lost!

They do not have to be made in glass, and who will pay for it.

If I did have them done in glass, they would be stamped.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

I have some NOS white frosted glass ones, that I could give you one, if I get a red replica in return.

Let me know,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

whats the conversion for the internals? once cut your missing one bolt hole and probabley shorten it, has any got a pic of an original internal

thanks, barry

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?


Barry I can't find a pic of the actual internals. But if the link to the Ariel conversion still works, it explains the procedure. The mounting foot is made shorter to accommodate the number plate window, so the bulb holder will have to follow suit. Ron
93570060-231502301530118-7455093971996377088-nimage

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

thanks ron, i appreciate the inner has to be cut, just wanted se se one

barry

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Barry you should have looked at that Ariel article like I suggested. Here's the picture of an original and the cut down version. Further down the list of pictures and there's a pic of it fitted. Ron

IMG-0396

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: 1939 KM20 with MT1130 1940 model taillight ?

Thanks Ron, I just saw that ariel post, silly as it seems but makes sense, big thumbs up

Barry

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