Hello there

i have finally got my 'blazing saddles' saddle from India via Dragonfly motorcycles. It took a while to arrive but actually looks pretty decent quality and was supplied with some springs. I had a go at fitting the saddle using existing bracketry and supplied springs and looks wrong and a bit crap as can be seen i 1st image



I have seen some kind of interface plates that fit between the saddle and springs to make the springs vertical and less rubbish looking. Also should there be some interface/bracket between the saddle and the frame near the tank? The parts diagrams I have look different and does not show such a bracket.

When I got the bike I had various extra parts, some of which were springs. The pic below shows the springs I have, including the new ones that came with the saddle and some metal plates that look useful but do not fit anywhere practical. The spring on right is the one supplied with the saddle; as in above pic. The 2 to the left are shorter ones that came with the bike. The springs supplied with the saddle look wrong and too long. Has anyone got a good pic of what the saddle configuration should look like or indeed what the parts i am missing?



cheers

Neil

email (option): nlhclarke@gmail.com

Neil my bike is 1940, configured as a later war upgrade, which includes the Terry's universal saddle which I think those Indian saddles are copied from. These were fitted with the shorter barrel shaped springs on support posts, to triangular plates on the saddle frame. Those helter skelter Indian springs are rubbish to my mind. You will also need to make up a nose bracket, maybe with those two plates you have.

I hate to piss on your firework, but the nice looking molded saddle covers are not very serviceable and often break up quite quickly and the mattress springs are not made from quality spring steel. I don't know what Drags charge but I've seen them all over on ebay and jumbles from around 35 Quid. Ron:confused:

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I have one of the triangular plates that fits to the rear of the saddle and connects to the upper end of the spring...Give me a few days as I get myself reorganised after Netley Jumble and I'll do you a sketch of it if you need it..I can also provide dimensions for the spring support pillars which may work OK with the 'mid length' springs that you have....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

The saddle looks totally wrong as per Rons reply
Looks more like a HD saddle than a BSA one
The spring mounts are way too far back and it looks like the saddle nose is too far forward
Ridden like that those sprigs will collapse in no time flat
IT is also way too high

I've explained all the WD saddles extensively on HMVF... :relaxed:

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

The Indian replica of the Terry universal saddle frame is reasonably accurate...The problem here lies with the incorrect springs and the front and rear saddle mounting brackets...With those items corrected the saddle will fit OK and look correct..
The top spring brackets (the 'triangular' ones) fitted to my M20 don't seem to be in Jans information, or maybe I missed them....I knew the chap who had my M20 straight after demob and also the only other owner after that before I bought it and I'm certain the saddle/mountings were never altered after disposal....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

They are Ian! Second page, approximately on 3/4 of the page :blush:

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Thanks Jan...Ian:relaxed:

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hello Chaps

it looks like I had a digital misfire there and my replies to your helpful comments and questions didn't come through when I tried to post them on Saturday!! I’ll try on a PC rather that a tablet.

Ron I totally agree it looks very wrong; helter skelter springs 😊 that’s great and about as useful. I assume I did get the right saddle as used the correct part number on dragonfly and went that. I did look about on eBay at the time and there was nothing so had to shell out about £70 fror Dragon's but it looks Ok and a lot better than the absolute pile of the hideous green dual seat that it came with.

Your bike looks bloody marvellous, how do you get the engine casings like that? Are they coated or is it just a lot of elbow grease? It did raise another question. I see you have no plug cap. I have been trying off and on to pinpoint a rough running/misfire/poor idle issue to be electrics or carb. On electrics front I read that a resistive plug cap can be problematic for a magneto but probably best in another post.

Ian I’d like to take you up on your kind offer of drawings for the triangular plates and posts if I may. It looks like ill need to get these made, or at least the plates. Dragonfly seems to show something that resembles the posts. It looks like my middles size springs (100 mm long) might do the trick. You mention some front brackets, do you have a drawing of this or part number for these too?

Jan’s thread is extremely extensive indeed. My bike is a post war 1947 variety so may have had some kind universal type saddle? I’m not too fussed with authenticity as the bike is a bit of a mongrel in various areas anyway (rear wheel/chain/carb). I just want to get the correct bracketry this fit this saddle to frame.

I attach a few more pics showing mounting holes and frame holes.











Many thanks again, hopefully this posts!

Cheers
Neil

email (option): nlhclarke@gmail.com

Neil when you get your spring posts and springs set up to your required height. Set the saddle level with the springs upright and then make up two stout plates (Say 1" x 1/8") that you can bolt/weld to the nose of the frame which arrive at the front mounting.

Re my crank cases. When I built the engine some years ago, I grit blasted them with medium aluminum oxide grit and then gave them a rub over with fine wire wool to get a dull sheen. Ever since I just clean them now and then with a paint brush and white spirit. :+1: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

As my M20 had been a daily ride from 1949 through to 1984, The saddle nose mount was trashed and worn conical at each end
So I drilled ( not easy ) then reamed ( even harder ) the hole true ( well better than it was anyway )
Then I made up 2 steel top hat bushes by welding high tensile washers to some tube
These were trimmed in the middle so when inserted from each side & done up tight there was around 0.010" clearence in total between the bush &the frame lug.
If I do it again I will shoot for 1/2 that or go thicker & fit some friction washers not sure yet
The upshot of this ismy saddle can only move in a single plane arc up & down so it does not slew from side to side like a jelly on a plate.
This makes the bike feel a lot better when you ride as your backside is not going side to side
Bushes have a 0.001" running clearance inside the frame which seems to be enough to get grease through
When you set up the saddle height , have the bike sitting on its wheels, not the stand as I did initally .
Sit on the bike and keep on adjusing the pillars so that the saddle is level or tipped slightly up with you sitting on it
If you don't then the seat will slop backwards when you are riding so you will be sliding off all the time .
Even worse is the rear rail that the pillow springs anchor to will be consistantly digging into your rear end , definately not comfortable as I fund out .
Some where in this sites vast archive is instructions for alternative spring mounting using wire so the springs anchor to the top edge of the rail rather than the bottom.
Down side of doing this is there is nothing to hold the felt in place .
I went one further and cut a plate out of a 3 litre milk bottle to sit directly over the springs then wrapped the felt in heat shrink wrap ( used on pallets ) so the felt no longer gets soaking wet then rusts out the pillow springs .

"Even worse is the rear rail that the pillow springs anchor to will be consistantly digging into your rear end , definately not comfortable as I fund out ."

This is something I've been looking with my Czech seat Trevor. To my mind there should be some kind of padding under the cover. Like a compressed sheet of Coir about 1/2" (12.7mm) thick.

Whilst on the subject of seats, does any have the dimensions for the rear seat mountings. I guess the thread size is 5/16" Cycle. Is the hex size 0.600"? (15.24mm)

Then we have springs, what shape should they be?

BTW Neil,

We have in stock the same seat as you got from Drags,

https://pesltd.uk/?product=78-0301&ptno=78-0301

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

My M33 has a single saddle, with which I had problems with the rear rail causing discomfort. I removed the cover and fitted a piece of pipe lagging over it and refitted the cover. It doesn't show but takes the pain away.

Hopefully some one with better computer skils than mine will be able to dig up the modification which from (unreliable ) memory was originally a period RAME modification along with the clutch nut modified to allow adjusting the squareness of the lift .
The original padding on mine was 1/4" thick felt which was just about cut into 5 strips by the springs
So I tried various tricks to put some thing solid between the springs& the packing
Loom tube worked fairly well but the milk bottle was by far the best as it is flexiable enough to contort every which way yet hard enough to allow the spring windings to slide over without pinching.
Next time I do it I will make it bigger & hit it with a hot air gun so it wraps around the springs and down the sides a bit better.
I should really get some HDPE sheeting but hey milk bottles are effectivly free and I have other things to spend my money on as you will find out shortly .
The pallet wrapping was the last mod and I am really happy with it as the cover will dry out quite quickly but the felt took days
And riding for 2 to 3 days with a wet bum is also not fun and I ride for fun not to proove I am superman .

Coir will disintegrate very soon, leaving a lot of coconut dust on your rear mudguard. Originally they used a 3/8 thick sheet of horsehair felt. Difficult to find these days, but I've found a supplier who sells these sheets for a very reasonable price.

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Thanks Jan,

If I can't find anything local, I'll be in touch.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Hello Ian

did you manage to find those sketches of the triangular seat plates and support pillars? I had a good look through Jan's magnum opus on seats but could not find any drawings of these parts . Cheers Neil

email (option): nlhclarke@gmail.com

Mark,

Do you sell just the seat cover without the frame? My bike already has a good saddle frame and springs, I just need a cover that fits a matchless universal saddle frame

email (option): optimar@me.com

Sorry Andrew, no stock. I even checked with our supplier, and they don't have stock either.

Mark

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com