%%htmlItem_1%%

Hi,
Here’s the bike I ended up buying, frame 23284. No it hasn’t got sidecar lugs. What I was referring to was the frame I was going to buy, I think it was a post war frame which I think did originally have sidecar lugs which were cut off. It also had the straight T bar front tank mount, wartime G3L’s had splayed V shape front tank mounts. But I’m no expert.

Thanks for the replies.[/quote]OK Nathan. I misunderstood that bit. It's clearly a bike from that complicated contract. So until definite information comes to light. You might as well pick any number from the sequence and just enjoy it. Regards Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Engine.....Frame.....Tank
27684......23284.....4652059

I'll try to summarise, without speculating too much.

The RAOC Chilwell records show a total of 3750 machines for this contract. 1750 to RAOC and 2000 to RASC. At this stage of the war, Ordnance and Service Corps had their own WD Serial number sequences (often known as the 'Census Number').

The 1750 machines received by RAOC at Chilwell were allocated serials C4649425 to C4651174. Within this batch, 142 machines had Miller electrics and whilst the serial numbers are known, the frame numbers aren't...We simply don't know how the numbers were allocated to these bikes...did they go down the production line at random or was a block of frame numbers used by the factory ?

Where things become really obscured, is with the contract within a contract...the 2000 machines for Royal Army Service Corps for use by themselves and second-line (Corps and above) units...These serial numbers were C941912 to C943911.

The difficulty is that we don't know whether RAOC or RASC received all their bikes first, whether they were mixed up, or how they were split-up. It doesn't look as if RASC had any Miller-equipped bikes though...Without knowing which frame numbers were allocated to RAOC and which to RASC, we can't even begin to work out which WD serials may have been allocated.

4652059 actually had an M prefix...It relates to contract V4518 (M4651901 - M4653100 for 1200 Humber MkIII Reconnaissance Cars)

Rik, there is a very well known photograph of Churchill on Gibraltar standing very close to a G3L. The C number appears to be C943315 and it has RASC painted on the tank and clearly has a Millar headlight fitted. Does that help or hinder your thoughts? JT

John, it seems that I didn't glance properly at the serial number lists in O&M...Small print and I failed to pick up the magnifying glass...There are certainly numbers from the RASC batch of C9***** serials under Cat. Ref 20 (the Miller batch) too.

This is exactly why I first said that it ought to be a Matchless expert who looked at the numbers. I haven't really studied these other than to say "No Way" :grimacing:

Rik, do you have any addition information on these contracts other than what appears in O&M? JT

Here a screenshot of the relevant part of Matchless Key Card database, the number is not in it (only means it was sold off before 1949) but you can see how mixed up it is!

So F is the column Frame numbers, and in the middle, the nearest frame number, then H are the C numbers (on the tank) all the ones starting with 14 are rebuilt bikes, then location and date of sale by the Army.

Then starting at the left are the Key card numbers, postwar Army reg. number, Contract number, and contract number as listed on the Key Card, not always correct.

Also a scan of a Matchless Key Card, own them all, and email me direct if you need information.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welb***.net

Thanks Lex, very interesting. JT

Thanks all for replies.

Can anyone help with another frame and engine please.
Frame 76281
Engine 93853

Contract 6150, early 1944.

Can anyone provide any more info on this bike or contract please.

Many thanks
Regards, Nathan

email (option): nljb345@hotmail.com

Can you help me to find my frame number n census number from the engine number as the frame number is not visible of my matchless g3l the engine number is 96006.
Pls let me know the year of manufacture nd frame number also

email (option): dharmilsorathia7@gmail.com

Ok, this is difficult, and probably will not be right, but will check tomorrow.

Regards,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net

I have already answered this question three days ago, but I notice now that I made a mistake. Sorry for that. Matchless contract S/6150 was a contract for 10.000 bikes, starting with frame number 73000, and engine number 90000. But production stopped after having built 6.089 bikes (last one: engine number 96088), because the War in Europe was over by then.

This makes 96006 one of the last military G3/Ls, but it was built when the war was (just) over, so second half of 1945. Frame number would have been 79006. Census number would have been C6118006.

A couple of bikes from the same contract:

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Just wondering... Was this information useful?
Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

For me it was Jan, 3 new (to me) G3L pictures!

Thanks,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net

My pleasure Lex! 😊

No, I wonder if I will ever get a reaction from Dharmil. From previous experiences I've got a feeling that there is no Indian translation for "thank you"... 😕

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Well, you have to understand their culture a bit, when you are born in a certain Caste, you can never go up in the hierarchy, and the ones in the highest Caste look down on everybody else, like us, the low life investigators, who do the groundwork of discovering new things from the old documents and such.....

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi**.net