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1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Hi guys

I got dramas.

Finally assembled my front forks and installed them onto the bike. I hit some issues and need some help.

I suspect I don't have all the hardware or the wrong hardware for the axle/brakes.

Brake -
The front brake cover plate scrapes as the wheel rotates. I can reduce this only if I have the plate sit further out from the hub. The only way to do this is to unscrew the nut on the inside. The nut with the cut outs.




Have I assembled it incorrectly? The spacer seems to be just floating there, not secured.


All I have on the outside of the brake plate is a nut that holds it into the hub, nothing to support it from the inside, is this the correct nut?

On the end of the axle is the end nut and washer which I think is incorrect as well.



Wheel -
Once I mounted the wheel on the forks I noticed two things. The nut on the left side is way to deep and doesn't seem to be the correct one. It does not appear to go on fully, there is just not enough thread.




Secondly, the front wheel is sitting off to the right side and I am not sure how to move it across or why it is sitting that way.


33mm space between the rim and the mudguard mounts on the left side.
17mm space between the rim and the mudguard mounts on the right side.

I had issue with the rear axle and found out I had a G3WO (solid) axle and not the G3L (hollow) axle, are there different front axles between the G3WO and the G3L?

When I tightened the wheel onto the forks I tightened the nuts on the bottom of the sliders first and then the axle nut, is this the correct order?

Any suggestions on how to fix these issues?

Cheers

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

I had another look today to see if there was some way to adjust it.

As best I can tell I am not missing any parts, it seems the nuts (end nut and brake plate locking nut) are too wide, maybe from the wrong model.

I can see no way to secure the brake plate without it being secured between two points, the locking nut on the outside and against something (another nut) on the inside. Am I incorrect?

Does anyone have any pictures of the inside of their front brake and of both nuts on the left side?


Cheers

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Hello Alun

All is not lost. From memory. Looking at picture 3, there does not appear to be a circlip in the groove inside the hub! This dictates where everything lines up to. Inward of the circlip is a thin flat washer to hold the oil seal in place inside the thick spacer, inward again is another thin washer to hold the oil seal in place again, then comes the bearing outer bearing race, then the inner bearing race & wheel spindle, then the other outer bearing race, followed by a thin washer to retain the oil seal, then the oil seal holder & oil seal, (Holder shaped like a top hat), then the threaded bearing adjuster, followed by the bearing adjuster lock ring.

Hope this is clearer & helps, I will send more details tomorrow, after I have been into my workshop & found my assembly notes

Hope you know how to adjust the bearing adjusting ring correctly, get it wrong & you will ruin the bearing in a very short time ask if you are not sure how to do it!

The front brake plate is located on the inside by the threaded flat plate with the two flats on it, clamping the brake plate with the lock nut on the outside of it, Incidentally, I think, your outer securing nut is wrong way round the hexagon should go against the brake plate, the nut on the wheel spindle should have a washer under it

AS for tightening up the wheel spindle, my method is assemble the wheel in the clamps, just nip it up evenly, then tighten up the end nut on the axle, this will locate the wheel correctly, but you will have to first adjust the position of the front brake plate, so it alighns up correctly with the locating stud in the fork leg

Your brake shoes are the original steel type, with the adjustable end caps on them. These end caps can be adjusted via the slots in the end cap, which are of different depths.

Any further questions drop me a line & I will try to help

Reguards

Chris Moore

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Chris

Thanks for responding. Yes the circlip is in there. All assembled EXACTLY as you have described. I followed my pictures I took when I disassembled and the instructions in the manual.

I have rotated the outside lock nut as you described so the hexagonal end is against the plate. Is this the correct nut? The reason I ask is the amount of space left after I have screwed this down against the brake plate is insufficient for the end nut.

As with the right side of the axle there is a smooth section that is the width of the fork end and is clamped by the four nuts. On the left side of the axle there is a threaded end for the end nut, then a smooth section to go inside the fork end and then some more thread for the brake plate lock nut.

With the lock nut done up tight against the brake plate, the amount of smooth section available to sit under the fork end is insufficient and subsequently half of the threads for the end nut are under the fork end, leaving little thread for the end nut to screw on.



The only way to make more space available is to screw in the threaded flat plate under the the brake plate, but if I go any lower the brake plate scrapes on the brake drum. If the outside locking nut was narrower it would allow more thread for the end nut and move the wheel further to the left which is the other issue I have. The wheel is offset to the right.

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Hello again Alun

possibly a silly question. Have you or a previous owner had the front wheel rebuilt or re-rimmed, one thing that comes to mind is, has the front wheel been rebuilt with the wrong offset? If it had, no matter what you do to the front wheel bearing & its spacers the wheel rim will not be central within the fork legs.

When I go round my workshop tomorrow I will get the vernier gauge out & have a measuring session, would you like the measurements in imperial or metric or not bothered?

Cheers

Chris Moore

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Chris

I am going to say yes, the rims have been replaced by one of the previous owners of the wheels.

I would very much appreciate the measurements in any format.

Cheers

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Hello Alun

I have dropped the front wheel out of my 41 WD G3L this afternoon, & measurements are as follows:-

Rim width:- 2.734/69.4 mm

Gap between fork leg flats, where the mudguard bolts onto:- 4 .5/114.4mm

Rim centre line to brake drum mouth :- 2.050/52 mm

Brake drum mouth to threaded end of the wheel spindle:-2.865.72 mm

Gap between edge of wheel rim & fork leg flat (Right hand side):- 7/8"/22 mm

Gap between edge of wheel rim & fork leg flat (Right hand side):- 7/8"/22 mm

Width of wheel spindle end nut: -0.435/11 mm

Width of washer for wheel spindle end nut:- 0.060/1.6 mm

Width of nut between outside of front brake plate & wheel spindle clamp:-0.545/13.9 mm

My thoughts are that the wheel has been laced up with the wrong offset, hence the problem to get the wheel to line up correctly

The brake plate slot should firstly line up with the stud pertruding from the fork slider, the brake plate should go flat against the alloy of the slider, secured by a flat washer & 5/16 cycle thread nut, with a split pin to retain the nut

The position of the brake plate will dictate the position of the wheel,the brake plate should butt up against the nut on the
outside of the brake plate, then the locking nut (With the flats on it) should be tightened up. Hopefully this will leave a slight clearance between the brake plate & the brake drum

Hope these notes help you

AS for turning the brake actuating cam round 180 degrees, I tried it, as suggested on the forum & it does appear to slightly put the lever in a better position, i.e lower down

And the problem of the missing rear stand mounts is not unsurmountable,you should be able to fabricate a couple of mounting brackets, the problem is fixing them to the original frame. The original frame lugs are made of maluable iron, I think this does not weld, hence the brazed frame lugs/tubes. It might be possible to bronze weld the new mounts to the original frame lugs, but I think that you will have to talk to a welder who knows what he is talking about.

If you need any more info, please drop me a line & I will do what I can to help you

Good luck

Chris Moore

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Chris

Thank you so much for taking the time to do that. Very much appreciated.

I'll try reversing the arm and see how that affects the brake lever position.

I did not notice any hole in the stud on the left fork slider for putting in a split pin for the locking nut for the brake plate. There is nothing on the parts list about a split pin.

A bit confused on your description..
"The position of the brake plate will dictate the position of the wheel, the brake plate should butt up against the nut on the
outside of the brake plate, then the locking nut (With the flats on it) should be tightened up."

The locking nut with the flats on it is INSIDE the brake when you assemble it, so I cannot tighten it from inside, but I assume you mean set that nut (flats on it) position first, to to set the plate position, and then put on the plate and tighten the lock nut on the OUTSIDE to secure the brake plate.

As for the centre stand lugs, I intend to find a professional who can weld them on. The issue will be determining the correct position. I may have access to another G3L and will get some photos and measurements. I need to reach out and see if this person actually has a G3L first.

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Chiris Moore
Hello Alun

I have dropped the front wheel out of my 41 WD G3L this afternoon, & measurements are as follows:-

Rim width:- 2.734/69.4 mm

Gap between fork leg flats, where the mudguard bolts onto:- 4 .5/114.4mm

Rim centre line to brake drum mouth :- 2.050/52 mm

Brake drum mouth to threaded end of the wheel spindle:-2.865.72 mm

Gap between edge of wheel rim & fork leg flat (Right hand side):- 7/8"/22 mm

Gap between edge of wheel rim & fork leg flat (Right hand side):- 7/8"/22 mm

Width of wheel spindle end nut: -0.435/11 mm

Width of washer for wheel spindle end nut:- 0.060/1.6 mm

Width of nut between outside of front brake plate & wheel spindle clamp:-0.545/13.9 mm

My thoughts are that the wheel has been laced up with the wrong offset, hence the problem to get the wheel to line up correctly

The brake plate slot should firstly line up with the stud pertruding from the fork slider, the brake plate should go flat against the alloy of the slider, secured by a flat washer & 5/16 cycle thread nut, with a split pin to retain the nut

The position of the brake plate will dictate the position of the wheel,the brake plate should butt up against the nut on the
outside of the brake plate, then the locking nut (With the flats on it) should be tightened up. Hopefully this will leave a slight clearance between the brake plate & the brake drum

Hope these notes help you

AS for turning the brake actuating cam round 180 degrees, I tried it, as suggested on the forum & it does appear to slightly put the lever in a better position, i.e lower down

And the problem of the missing rear stand mounts is not unsurmountable,you should be able to fabricate a couple of mounting brackets, the problem is fixing them to the original frame. The original frame lugs are made of maluable iron, I think this does not weld, hence the brazed frame lugs/tubes. It might be possible to bronze weld the new mounts to the original frame lugs, but I think that you will have to talk to a welder who knows what he is talking about.

If you need any more info, please drop me a line & I will do what I can to help you

Good luck

Chris Moore
Chris

Close enough on my measurements

Rim width:- 2.734/69.4 mm (mine - a little narrower. listed as 1.85 x 19)

Gap between fork leg flats, where the mudguard bolts onto:- 4 .5/114.4mm (same)

Rim centre line to brake drum mouth :- 2.050/52 mm (mine 61mm)

Brake drum mouth to threaded end of the wheel spindle:-2.865/72 mm (mine 62mm)

Gap between edge of wheel rim & fork leg flat (Right hand side):- 7/8"/22 mm (mine 17mm)

Gap between edge of wheel rim & fork leg flat (Right hand side):- 7/8"/22 mm (mine 32mm)

Width of wheel spindle end nut: -0.435/11 mm (mine 14mm)
It looks a bit big.


Width of washer for wheel spindle end nut:- 0.060/1.6 mm (mine 2mm)

Width of nut between outside of front brake plate & wheel spindle clamp:-0.545/13.9 mm (same)

The brake plate is up against the fork slider so the hub is where it is supposed to be.


You can see how far out I have had to unscrew the inside nut to set the brake plate correctly and can see where it has been scraping in the groove on the brake drum. I suspect this is reducing the amount of thread available for the end nut



I think I need to get the offset changed. Time to start looking for a wheel lacing guru near me.

I ordered a new spindle end nut too.

Cheers

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Hi Alan,

The assembly instructions posted by Chris are correct:


"Looking at picture 3, there does not appear to be a circlip in the groove inside the hub! This dictates where everything lines up to. Inward of the circlip is a thin flat washer to hold the oil seal in place inside the thick spacer, inward again is another thin washer to hold the oil seal in place again, then comes the bearing outer bearing race, then the inner bearing race & wheel spindle, then the other outer bearing race, followed by a thin washer to retain the oil seal, then the oil seal holder & oil seal, (Holder shaped like a top hat), then the threaded bearing adjuster, followed by the bearing adjuster lock ring".

I have uploaded photo's of the relevant pages from the original factory maintenance manual.

https://ibb.co/H73HDZx
https://ibb.co/G2Cz94C
https://ibb.co/3STxfBM

So looking at your last photo, it appears that you still don't have the correct assembly. The spacing collar encircles/ houses the felt washer/ oil seal and should be held behind a thin washer and the circlip, inside the hub. There should then be another thin washer inside. The outer bearing is pressed up to this assembly from the offside on the hub and stoped by the circlip.

I hope this helps.

email (option): peter.h.wright@btinterner.com

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Peter

I am -pretty sure I followed the instructions correctly when I assembled the hub, but happy to pull it apart and double check tomorrow. There is a circlip in the groove.



cheers

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Hi Alan,

I think that the spacing collar, which is loose in your photo, encircles/ houses the felt washer/ oil seal and should be held behind a thin washer and the circlip, inside the hub.

email (option): peter.h.wright@btinterner.com

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Peter

I am reading the 1941 Maintenance Manual and Instruction Book. Page 59 Para 83 TO ASSEMBLE A WHEEL BEARING (FRONT OR REAR)

I'll use that to ensure I assemble it correctly.

However I did note this further down the page.

"NOTE :—In the case of the front brake cover plate it is most important this is correctly positioned.
It is retained to the front wheel spindle by an inside nut (Part Number 40-G12M-H47), and an outside nut (Part Number 40-G12M-H46).

Between the inside nut and the brake cover plate is a locating washer (Part Number 40-G12M-B100.)

The inside nut should be positioned so that, when the locating washer is placed next to it, the outside face of the washer is 1/16th inch proud of the outer edge of the brake drum. (Tested by placing a straight edge across the edge of the brake drum.)"

I know for sure that I do not have this "locating washer" and a google search cannot locate what it looks like, AMC spare and AMOC do not list the part number. (Part Number 40-G12M-B100) New part number is 017334.

Does anyone have a picture of one of these? Does anyone know where I might source one of these?

Cheers

Al


Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Hi Alun,

Les at Russell Motors has them listed as 01.7334

Go to:

http://www.russellmotors.co.uk/

Download his AJS Matchless parts list at:

http://www.russellmotors.co.uk/Classic%20bikes/Downloads/files/AJS%20NORTON%20MATCHLESS.pdf

To be honest, I used a washer of the correct internal diameter and a suitably large outer diameter. This did the job.

If you are not already aware, parts lists and manuals can be downloaded for free at:

http://archives.jampot.dk/

Feel free to email me, if I can help further.

Hope this helps

email (option): peter.h.wright@btinterner.com

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Sorry, my email address should read

peter.h.wright@btinternet.com

email (option): peter.h.wright@btinterner.com

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Peter Wright
Sorry, my email address should read

peter.h.wright@btinternet.com
Peter

Sent you an email

Al

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Alun, I think you mentioned somewhere that you are in Australia?

If you can get a dimension from someone I would be happy to knock one up on the lathe for you?
Postage would be the only cost so if you are in Oz that wouldn't be outrageous.

Ray

email (option): rays54@hotmail.com

Re: 1941 WD G3L Front wheel and fork questions

Ray

Thank you for that. I am hoping to get some dimensions soon and will check with local specialty fastener first, as I have been told it is a simple washer.

I'll let you know if I get stuck.

Cheers

Al

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