Hello All

could anyone give me a suggestion of a good place to get control cables from? I first went to eBay as a lot of folks advertise there anyway. I ordered throttle, air control and clutch from 3 different places. All were wrong, howzat :) All were listed for the M20 in their pages but also along with other machines which i guess should have given a warning.

Also on the very helpful page on cables in the technical section it lists WM20 cables, presumably they are the same as a regular M20?

cheers
Neil

email (option): nlhclarke@gmail.com

Make them by yourself.
The nipples you need can be bought by different suppliers.
I do it always this way

Yes, make your own cables. They will be better than what you can buy and which never seem to be the correct length!

I disagree

A James ML front brake cable requires a specific attachment.

Not an easy one to replicate.

But then, I am but a shade tree mechanic

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

Hi Neil
Make 'em yourself. The fittings can be bought & salvaged from old cables. I quite like making cables. It's a Zen thing. When in the mood I make a couple, it's a nice job.

AMC has them all,

http://www.amcclassicspares.com/Cables%20&%20Control%20Levers.pdf

Dave at JJ Cables makes good cables and will make them to your specified requirements and will alter any cable he makes if it needs it. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Ebay is a dangerous place to buy from. Even though we display on Ebay, you'll get a better price by buying direct from us.
We stock a lot of the Doherty cables and have not had any returns. They are not the very best quality, but they work. By the fact you purchased from Ebay you were not looking for a quality product in the first place.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

I started making my own cables a while back as I frequently build 'specials' and standard length cables won't fit...If you decide to make your own source good quality Bowden cable and crucially, outer sleeving. The rigidity of the outer sleeve has a big effect on the operation of brake and clutch cables particularly...Personally I use a heavy (No.4) Bowden cable for brake cables wherever possible...Also, acquire the correct solder and flux...Finally, ensure you have a clear understanding of the assembly method and the soldering technique you choose to employ...

A nipple pulling off an incorrectly made brake cable for example, could seriously damage you and your bike...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I'm sure I read somewhere a reminiscence by Vic Willoughby talking about coming off in the Isle of Man. He went to use the front brake & it wasn't there anymore. On examination the cable hadn't been belled in its nipple. I figure if British workers would do that to the Norton race shop or one of its top privateers you should always be careful about cables from an unknown source.

If you make your own a "bird nest" tool is a great help (they are generally expensive to buy though)

Well worth the effort to make a tool...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

We use these people for our competition quality cables, but they are slow and expensive.
40 years ago their service was second to none.

https://www.venhill.co.uk/tools/compact-tools/cable-inner-wire-bird-caging-tool-vt13.html

And another site showing the procedure, though the bird cage method is horrible.

https://ariel-square-four.blogspot.com/2014/02/cables-cable-making.html

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Any chance of someone posting a picture of the bird nest swaging tool?

email (option): mcdonnell.roberts@sympatico.ca

I don't have time to do any pictures today but I'll post some after Shepton Jumble which is tomorrow...

My preferred method of soldering is to use a 'pot' for the solder which can be heated with a blow lamp..The cable is then dipped to solder everything together...The picture below is a pot I knocked up on the lathe from a stainless bar offcut. The lower part can just be clamped in a vice...I made the pot large enough to easily accommodate a 3/8" cable nipple but without having an excessive volume to reduce heating time...Using this method it's pretty much impossible to overheat the Bowden cable...I use an acidic flux which cleans and removes any surface oxidisation prior to soldering...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

this is the tool. You can get one from Venhills for 150 quid :scream: I think I got mine from a Dutch trader (a bit cheaper) but I can't remember now. Shouldn't be too difficult to knock one up.





I too like to use a solder pot as you can immerse the whole plot in it and be sure that the solder has really penetrated.
I was very luck to be given this electrically heated pot, with a diameter or around 1.5", it is great to use.

Maybee this supplier?
http://www.cable-shop.nl/index.html

With the former link it is not possible to find the birds nest tool.
Type in google
Innerwire solder tool
It cost 65 euros in this shop

email (option): nlhclarke@gmail.com

I'm sticking my neck out here, but there is very little variation in handlebar width and frame size on motorcycles of out type...cables that fit Amal throttle and choke are likely to be standard, as is the Lucas A/R cable. Front brake and clutch length and nipples will vary. That's two out of the three though.

Hello Chaps,

many thanks for the wealth of information and advise; I can see this is a bit of a popular problem to come up in this new world for me. Having spent a good part of the evening looking into cable options in my much frequented isolation den of late (i caught COVID this last week, so I'm sent to my cave more often than usual !!).

Anyhow I'm coming round to the conclusion that making them will probably be better and possibly cheaper. That is apart from that square sectioned oddity of the Speedo cable which is sheered. It would seem the nipples should be brass and I may be able to reuse? I guess the next question would be where to get inners, outers, ferrule etc. Of course ebay seems to have a lot of hits when you search 'Bowden cable' and they come out as odd metric sizes like 5.27 mm outer for 1.5 mm inner which probably corresponds to an imperial throttle/air/magneto combo (ie thinner cable compared to brake/clutch). So if anyone has a good source of cable parts that would be most welcomed.

That Charlie's shed link of making cables is excellent and definitely gives one confidence and instruction on how to have a go. I guess making throttle, air or magneto is not as critical safety wise as a brake cable?

cheers
Neil

email (option): nlhclarke@gmail.com

For those who have never made a cable, a properly done one should be usable without the solder even being there. If the cable will pull out of the ferrule without solder it was not done correctly. The birds nest tool looks good but I have never seen or used one.

Also use plumbers solder, not electrical solder.

The landlord bought the Venhill cable kit complete with a birds nest tool & I was staggered how much easier it made making cables
You can make one by drilling a small hole in the head of a bolt slotting the bolt lengthwise about 2/3 the way through.
The cable is slipped into the bolt then the bolt is placed in a vice so the head is hard against the top of the jaws.

What is worthwhile doing is fitting floating drums to the handlebar ends of the cables
This allows the inner to rotate freely whan you pull the cable on so the cable will never ever break.
Laid up Bowden cables fail via torsional fatigue at the drum end because the solder prevents the cable rotating when stretched .
SO in the preceeding photo you put a pear on both ends of the cable .
At the handlebar end , you drill the small hole out so the pear will sit inside the drum without fouling on the lever
If you have bought the right sized drum for the inner you are using then the through hole will have to be drilled out as well to clear the parallel section of the pear .
Then slip the drum over the cable first, then the pear, then make the birdcage then solder the pear to the cable and clean it when cool
If you hvae been a bit too enthuiastic with the solder the pear might need a bit of cleaning up.
The drum should spin freely on the pear .

FWIW If you look closely at you cables you will notice one end , usually the handlebar end has a drum fitting while the other end has a pear or ball
When laid up caples ( rope, power extensions etc ) are stretched they rotate in the opposite directon the the spiral of their lay.
To accomodate this usually the engine end has a ball fitting which is supposed to be able to rotate in the lever .
Some probably did when new but most have been bashed around so much diring use the ball can not rotate so the cable ends up fracturing, strand by strand.

As an aside, when Sydney Tafe got their scanning electron micoscope they were trying to make a torsional fatigue sppeciem so students coud see all of the tell tale signs of a fatigue failure.
However when something fails in tortional fatigue, one end usually spinns ( think truck tailshafts ) which destroys the fracture surface .
I dug out some old broken cables & the head of school thought I was a god .
The lab staff were impressed as well because it took them no time to make up some cables to fit in the tensiometer then just keep on alternating the load till the cables failed so they had torsional failures in different metls at different load levels .