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Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Hi Ian,

Terry Mead built a frame for me for a race bike. All I had were the drawings. He made a lovely job of it. Good quality and reasonable price. He has (had) a waiting list though.

Regards

Tony.

email (option): tony-wilkinson@sky.com

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Hi All
Have now spoken to Paul MacDonell in Wrexham and he no longer gets involved in fork restoration. He stopped 2 years ago as a result of sporadic work coming in.
Looks like its back to the drawing board or try the guys in Dudley.
Thanks for your ideas so far.
John

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Hi John..Try Terry Mead (Kent)..01233 840323 .... allyson.mead@live.co.uk

...Ian

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

I'm so glad I read this thread re fork refurbs. Extremely worrying about poor standards of engineering. Let alone multi year delays & wrong stuff being sent out. I had a similar experience with the tank doctor refurb that took 2 years & was sent a different tank to the one I sent them. Never again.
Terry Mead made me a good replica BSA SA race frame quite some years ago, of course that's a big jig with big tubes. I would think he's got a lot of bending / straightening experience. Retubing girders seems pretty complicated to me, let alone fine tapered tubes. I can see that Terry or very many engineers wouldn't take it on. The shortage of reliable girder fork repairers is certainly a concern. Where do we go?!
It would be nice to know how old threads like this are as to whether the info was new or way out of date. RJ 14/11/21:slightly_smiling_face:

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

I'm so glad I read this thread re fork refurbs. Extremely worrying about poor standards of engineering. Let alone multi year delays & wrong stuff being sent out. I had a similar experience with the tank doctor refurb that took 2 years & was sent a different tank to the one I sent them. Never again.
Terry Mead made me a good replica BSA SA race frame quite some years ago, of course that's a big jig with big tubes. I would think he's got a lot of bending / straightening experience. Retubing girders seems pretty complicated to me, let alone fine tapered tubes. I can see that Terry or very many engineers wouldn't take it on. The shortage of reliable girder fork repairers is certainly a concern. Where do we go?!
It would be nice to know how old threads like this are as to whether the info was new or way out of date. RJ 14/11/21:slightly_smiling_face:

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Sorry for the double post folks;
I came to the thread on my phone, which shows no dates at all. In my keen-ness to respond, I didn't recall that the full website had dates on posts.
Secondly - both times when I attempted to post from my phone, I got a message saying something like "you have failed the captcha security" & when I clicked back, "form resubmission failed", then "you have made too many posts" (even after only making one!) Obviously some technical issue with the phone version...
Secondly - :smiley:

It is a great shame that the previously well regarded repairers have retired, ceased trading, or worse, lost the plot re. quality etc.
Has anyone any more recent experience?
Mark at PES is on the way with his decent looking replacement parts / rep forks, I can't imagine he would want start taking on anyone's badly pitted & paper thin, rusted taper tube blades for repair either. It really is is a tough one to solve.
If the options really were / are as limited as has been suggested... I'm pretty confident with engines & gearboxes but girders are tricky.
I would at a push, probably be able to clean out my spindle bores & at a further push, attempt fitting bushes, even if they were the reputedly shorter life oilite type. With my dubious lathe skills & my ancient worn out lathe I would struggle to make accurate bronze bushes to size. I don't have specialised long line reamers to hone true after fitting. I also have absolutely no formal engineering training. The number of mistakes I could make doesn't bear thinking about! With current time in the shed constraints it could also take me absolutely ages.

Re. "simple" straightening, currently ABBA engineering (I don't know them) straighten frames & forks & claim to be able to straighten girders.
Kingpin Components have a basic guide on their site to DIY re-bushing. Don't know if they take the work on themselves. I waited a long time for a sprocket from them. Means they're very busy I guess with more lucrative work...
RJ

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

In the absence of a girder fork specialist the first thing is to get the forks straightened...Once straight they can be assessed regarding wear of the link pins, bushes etc. These are machining jobs and as long as you can provide the necessary information there are toolrooms/machine shops that will take on bush manufacture etc. etc.... It's best to find somewhere in your area that you can visit to show them what you have and to explain to them what you want...
Lots of these places like small 'cash jobs'...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Things move slowly, especially as there are no guaranteed funds at the end. Fork bushes we now make and stock. We do use oilite material for some applications, but I think it's too soft for the link bushes.
As time moves on more parts will be made. Once I have produced the castings it would be possible to look at repairs, though if all the tubes needed replacing I expect new would be cheaper.
And again with fitting and finishing the bushes we should be able to do them now. Once I start fitting the bushes to my fork parts I will produce tooling to reduce production costs. So tooling may be for sale and also a bush replacement service at a fixed price.
BTW I wouldn't dream of reaming the bushes, line honing always gives better longer lasting results.

A little more progress to report. The link pins are now ground, so I should be able to try fitting some soon to the links.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Thanks Ian, that is certainly what I do for precision jobs.
I used to have a brilliant Vickers trained guy local to me who could do anything from his well equipped home workshop but unfortunately now moved away & long retired. He was very good in modifying a race crank & also rebushed a set of M20 girders, among many other small jobs. He had all sorts of interesting stuff turn up on his benches.

The local precision engineer I use now is quite amenable to take on specific machining tasks - he does prefer drawings &/or specific details. Not just a box of bits & a "can you fix these please", as he is not a bike man.
Over the years I have also found other local engineers to be helpful for bits & bobs, although there are fewer of them these days. I think the vintage machinery element appeals to some, even if many have no knowledge of motorcycles.
Providing I have the tools, sometimes I just have a go myself - do a lot of reading, focus on not ruining a anything irreplaceable, take as much care as possible. Over time my welding has improved & I can turn simple stuff; spacers, bushes, footrests etc but the lathe is ancient & worn out of true so is a bit of a pain for really accurate work.
Obviously tooling can be expensive for one off jobs.

Marks reply immediately showed I didn't know what I was talking about! :joy: I'm sure reamer is a word I have seen used re. girders, possibly folk being casual with language. Other than a large bore hone & have never seen another, let alone one small enough to fit in some girder bushes!

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Hello john.....reference repro mudguards...I purchased a front and rear pair from "royal spares" in india about 8 months ago... they were the only place I could find that did a "ribbed" rear mudguard too!!!..(the pair I had on my bike when purchased were absolutely shot away and incorrect for the bike anyway!!)....I must say I've only fitted the front so far but it's well made and sturdy as anything!! The fork " cutout" is very slightly "off" but you've got to look hard to notice!? ..I havnt fitted the rear yet so cant comment on fitting accuracy,but it looks well made too!! The only slight issue is where the rear section of the guard fits on could be a bit better but nothing an hour or so of fettling cant resolve!!??...to be honest I've had crap experiences with a few indian parts (and wont touch them with a barge pole generally!) but in this rare instance I'm happy with the end result!....if reasonably priced originals turn up I may replace them (?) but it keeps the machine on the road for now!!.....also, they came with a rear number plate too which looks the part and I may use on another project!!??.....have a peruse on their site and see what you think?..if you want me to send you a couple of photos email me your WhatsApp details and I'll send them to you!..I cant work out how to send pictures on this email thingy,,?😆 pip pip Shaun

email (option): jacko1977pfc@gmail.com

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

From an engineers point of view, honing fork bushes might be better, but I've only ever read/heard/seen them "Line Reamed":thinking_face: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

That's good enough for me Ron!
I guess if you have a choice of hones & reamers in a well equipped pro shop then you go for the best option.
I have a few reamers but nothing long enough to go right across the forks & none I could fix a guide rod to. A jig on my old bench press where I could line the bush bores up with a rod, & then flip over to the other side might be possible. I need to confirm the chuck is running at 90 degrees to the table as I've not yet used it for anything much beyond drilling holes in thin plate.
As Ian said, they need to be straight to start with.

Re. mudguards, I've often found mudguards need fettling to fit, rears more than fronts.
I got an alu' tank from India a few years back (not M20) & for the money it was pretty good, not perfect by any means but passed muster - no adverse comments, I have a theory that feedback to the makers is worth trying if something is not quite right, like out of line fork indents or whatever. Tell them the correct measurements (if you are sure of them - it helps to have an original).
Otherwise it's no good us complaining of poor quality & how can they ever get any better?
Also I've had a few "poorly made in the UK" parts over the years; copies of copies, & plenty you buy here now was made abroad anyway.

Re: WM20 Front Mudguard and bent forks

Mark Cook
Things move slowly, especially as there are no guaranteed funds at the end. Fork bushes we now make and stock. We do use oilite material for some applications, but I think it's too soft for the link bushes.
As time moves on more parts will be made. Once I have produced the castings it would be possible to look at repairs, though if all the tubes needed replacing I expect new would be cheaper.
And again with fitting and finishing the bushes we should be able to do them now. Once I start fitting the bushes to my fork parts I will produce tooling to reduce production costs. So tooling may be for sale and also a bush replacement service at a fixed price.
BTW I wouldn't dream of reaming the bushes, line honing always gives better longer lasting results.

A little more progress to report. The link pins are now ground, so I should be able to try fitting some soon to the links.
FWIW I use 85:5:5:5 for the girder bushes I made up a decade ago & probably should be replaced around now but having ridden the bike for 35 years I am quite at home with the less than perfect fame geometry.
Then again I use 85:5:5:5 in most places as it is a "good enough " material for everything on any BSA apart from valve guides
I just used an adjustable reamer, hand held from each side to do the bushes.
Probably was a bit crocked but it works well enough.
Remember these bikes were designed to be pulled apart with ittle more than the proverbial flattened out shell casing.
We forget some times that they were obsolete 1920's engineering from new and do not require space shuttle accuracy in order to run reliabily.
Now there is no reason not to ream them parallel to withing a few seconds or 1/10th of a thou if you like but to all extents & purposes the average rider would not feel much in the way of a difference .

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