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frame no

I have a 1944 Matchless G3L with a Frame number of 25CW136 its on the RH side of the lug under the seat and is a single stamping so appears to be the original stamping but I can find no ref to this sort of number.Engine no 90625 has anybody any ideas as to what it refers to.Thanks in anticipation

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

Hi Colin
Its a rebuild number, at some point your bike was rebuilt in a workshop and it was given a replacement frame, either new or an old one with the old number removed, there are a number of similar ones listed in the post war BSA M20 key cards, as yet I haven't seen any evidence to date its use, it could be anytime from before the end of WW2 to sometime in the 1960s.
Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: frame no

Thank you for that Rob
At least it would appear from that, that it was army bike. Ive been trying to trace the batch no etc, so I can give it some proper identification but it looks like that wont be possible, but never mind I will still continue to enjoy it.
Should you find anything else please let me know.
Colin

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

Arguably it was built by the Army rather than AMC so its more military than most?

Lex has the post war Matchless key cards, its possible its listed there with a wartime "C" census serial number, if that is the case you could calculate its original frame number, however you could never be totally sure of its identity that way.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: frame no

The census number would be ideal as it would give the bike its own identity. I dont know Lex and would he be amenable to looking this up for me. With regard to the original frame number with the info that it was likely replaced in an army workshop and is not a cobbled together bike.Im happy to leave it as it is

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

If you enter 'Lex' into the search box, you'll find plenty of references. He gets about a bit :grinning:

I'm not a Matchless man, but for those who are, photos of the number stampings would be really helpful. It seems to have been the practice later in the war that spare part frames from all the manufacturers were supplied unstamped. In general, the workshops then applied the number of the frame to be replaced but the system was a bit variable.

Re: frame no

Colin, 25CW could indicate 25 Command Workshop REME, which was I think located at Gainsborough, Lincs.

Re: frame no

An error in my previous post. The location of 25 Command Workshop was not Gainsborough, but Lanark in Scotland, it operated from 1940 to 1962.

Re: frame no

Thats brilliant information Im sure that among all the paperwork I was given that there is mention of it originally coming from Scotland.

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

Richard that is very interesting, there are also quite a few BSAs and possibly Matchless's too which have a replacement frame number starting 31/BW/.., is this 31 Base Workshop, where and when were they operating?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: frame no

Rob, Richard posted on an HMVF thread about 31 Base Workshop, Ashford.

https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/43102-mil-web/

Re: frame no

Is there any way to access The Command Workshop papers, Ive been trolling though every thing I can think of but it may be included with something ive not thought of.
Colin

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

Thanks Rik, that helps.

These are the similar numbers and some other odds listed in the post war BSA key cards, there may be a similar number in the Norton and Matchless cards as well?, there are several "14/CW" listed which presumably was another Command Workshop, its possible that two of the digits in some cases are the year the rebuild took place, there are also going to be some typos.

Rob

14/CW/0003
14/CW/0008
14/CW/001
14/CW/0016
14/CW/0022
14/CW/005
14/CW/0059
14/CW/0067
14/CW/00713
14/CW/0078
14/CW/0083
14/CW/0090
14/CW/0094
14/CW/0110
14/CW/0112
14/CW/0116
14/CW/0121
14/CW/103
14/CW/133
14/CW/139
14/CW/156
14/CW/182
14/CW/6082
25/687
25/688
25/690
25/691
25/693
25/694
25/695
25/696
25/697
25/698
25/699
25/700
25/702
25/704
25/705
25/706
25/707
25/708
25/711
25/712
25/713
25/714
25/717
25/718
25/719
25/720
25/721
25/722
25/724
25/725
25/726
25/727
25/729
25/730
25/CW/.22
25/CW/014/55
25/CW/1/55
25/CW/101
25/CW/102
25/CW/103
25/CW/104
25/CW/105
25/CW/11/55
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25/CW/96
25/CW/97
25/CW/98
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25/CW211/56
25CW/243/56
25CW/68/55
27/709
31/BW/1
31/BW/10
31/BW/11
31/BW/13
31/BW/14
31/BW/15
31/BW/16
31/BW/17
31/BW/18
31/BW/19
31/BW/2
31/BW/20
31/BW/22
31/BW/23
31/BW/24
31/BW/25
31/BW/4
31/BW/5
31/BW/8
31/BW/9
31/BW3
37/701
40/CW/18
407/10
407/11
407/12
407/13
407/14
407/15
407/16
407/17
407/19
407/20
407/21
407/22
407/23
407/26
407/27
407/28
407/29
407/30
407/31
407/6
407/7
407/8
A5/872
A5/884
A5893
AS/102
AS/106
AS108
AS113
AS881
C206/43002
G206/471
G208/60222
G216/74752
G216/85376
R1005

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: frame no

Hi Rob,
14CW would have been my old workplace, 14 Command Workshop, Ashford, Kent, renumbered to 44 in Sixties

Re: frame no

Thank you Richard, "ASH" seems to be rather overused in British establishment use, but you don't look old enough to have been there in 1955/6.

Ashford Kent 14 Command Workshop
Ashford Middlesex 31 Command Workshop
Ashchurch Gloucestershire Central Vehicle Depot

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: frame no

Hi Rob,
I wear well! Actually I was there from 1974 to 96 when it closed, it was renumbered 44 in that period. Ashford Middlesex was a Base Workshop (not a Command), I think it closed around 1958.
regards,
Richard

Re: frame no

Richard Farrant
Hi Rob,
I wear well! Actually I was there from 1974 to 96 when it closed, it was renumbered 44 in that period. Ashford Middlesex was a Base Workshop (not a Command), I think it closed around 1958.
regards,
Richard
As Im new to this and have no real idea how the numbering system worked. Would the delivery papers for the contracts have stated
The frame and engine numbers of each bike. If they did would it be possible by knowing the engine no 90625 to find the original Frame no, also the batch no and where it would have gone to. If this is possible could somebody point me in the right direction to find this information

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

To add to the info that 25CW was the workshop in lanark. Ive now discovered that the original civilian registration was in Nairn.
It would appear that all the records from this area were destroyed, so another dead end, but at least I know that it was based in Scotland.So does anybody know if the census numbers followed a particular patten in the Scottish regiments.

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

Engine 90625 was from the very last contract (S6150) in 1944 and was fitted in frame 73625 which was given census number C6112625. See how the last digits 625 follow on in this series of numbers. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: frame no

Blocks of Census numbers were not allocated to units, although quite often numbers close to each other arrived at the same place. All machines from this contract were delivered to RAOC Chilwell, theoretically at 1400 per month commencing November 1944. Although originally for 10,000 bikes, (Frames 73000 - 82999 and engines 90000 - 99999) it was curtailed at 6089 so the last frame number was 79088. Presumably the highest engine was 96088.

According to the Chilwell records, the census numbers issued were C6112000 - 6117286, 288-309, 311-332, 334-6118091...no explanation for why 6112310 and 6112333 were not used...but they may well have stayed with the matching last two digits (25) that seem to have featured across all makes by this time.

It is likely that the deliveries were delayed and the bike may well still have been at Chilwell at the end of the war - they were building up huge stocks for a war in the Far East that was expected to last another two years...it could have been sent anywhere after that...and of course not only Scottish infantry regiments were stationed in Scotland.

Re: frame no

Ron and Rik Im amazed at the depth of knowledge you two have, and cannot express my gratitude enough for the help you have given me.
Colin

email (option): colina3cje@gmail.com

Re: frame no

Only just saw this now, but will check over the weekend, and post what I can find.

Cheers,

Lex

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