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BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

Early type BSA M20s press photo,riders have tommy guns,it looks like they have metel tank badges??,also the one on the left has a pillion seat and foot pegs fitted,they also have some type of blackout cover fitted to the rear tail lights.





Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

Although I think that they are M20s,you actually can't see the engines on the photo, so its possible that they may be some other model maybe even OHV.

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

Panel tanks and valanced front guards fitted! Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

Same photoshoot as this one in my opinion, hence a KM21 that was destined for the Dutch Army, but wasn't despatched yet when Germany invaded the low countries in May 1940. These undelivered bikes were then taken over by the British Army.

Jan

C4192169-former-Dutch-Army

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

Hi guys,

@ Jan: I don't agree with you. The Dutch Army M21's had handgearchange paneltanks and gearboxes.

I have another option. A contract with a very limited number of M24's was delivered to the War Office in '39. I found the engine and framenumbers in a G14 BSA factory book last year (the numbers are not yet in the last edition of O&M's book). These 2 motorcycle's could actually be from that contract, it's too bad we can not see the engine's. Both motorcycle's have full spec civilian parts, paneltank, small toolbox, full valanced mudguards, no rear carrier, early rear stand, etc.

Regards,
Bastiaan

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

Impressed civilian M20 or M21 is my guess, were the metal tank badges fitted to both the 1939 and 1940 ranges or did one of them have transfers?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

The stencilled style of serial number on the front guard looks to be the same as the ex-Dutch bike. Would this not point towards contract C7370 ? It would make these two C4192139 and C4192249.

The contract totalled 526 machines and comprised 167 350cc, 147 standard 500cc and 600cc sv and 212 600cc Dutch Pattern.

The metal tank badges and valanced front guard both look correct for the 1940 model year civilian range.

http://home.planet.nl/~leonhop3/1940_m21.jpg

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

You have got a point there Bastiaan... It was the census number that made me think so, in combination with the spec of the bike and the gun.

I'm still convinced that the census numbers come from the same batch as the ex Dutch bike (same stenciled numbers, same crooked position...). If my theory is correct, the complete census number of one of the bikes would be C4192139, the other one could be C4192249. Which would put them in contract C/7370 (just like the ex Dutch KM21), this was a contract for 344 "BSA Motor Cycle solo 600cc", with census numbers C4191959 - C4192302.

Schermafbeelding-2021-09-26-om-18-50-27

Could these two bikes have been on BSA's production line when it became clear that they couldn't be sent to the Netherlands anymore? Hence the fitment of a foot change system...? Just an idea...

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

Jan, you could be correct...the Chilwell card shows that the largest delivery was booked in there on 30th May 1940...If I look at the M21 engine records, there are a lot of early May Dutch despatches which then have a second War Office entry on 29th and 30th May...around WM21 2400.

However, up until May 1940, during the phoney war BSA had still been delivering small quantities for both home and overseas markets and this suddenly stopped...It may just be that rather than converted Dutch contracts, these were simply factory stock of civilian models.

Re: BSA M20s early type.Press Photo.

@Jan and Rick: I see your point guys and the stencilling looks very similar to the ex-Dutch Army WM21's from the contract you are referring to.

I just noticed that these BSA's lack the pre war speedo drive in the brake plate on the right side, so these are at least delivered after the summer of '39 and most likely not KM20/24's.

Regards,
Bastiaan

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

Re: BSA M20s early type. Press Photo.

Now I'm getting all excited again... I'm building a WM21 from this contract. (Frame WM20 2966; calculated as C4191619.) I'm working on the assumption that it didn't get to the Netherlands. But maybe a photo will surface.

email (option): cmmacd @hotmail.co.uk

Re: BSA M20s early type. Press Photo.

:thinking_face: I have most parts in stock to build such a non-delivered BSA WM21 as on the photograph including a spare WM21 engine. I am only missing the front valanced mudguard, which is very difficult to find as I experienced when I was collecting parts for my Dutch Army WM21.

email (option): wdmotorcycles@gmail.com

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