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Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

I've had a number of exhaust systems from Armours for M20/M21s and have yet to get one that fits...It seems to be an insurmountable technical challenge...:persevere: ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

Hi Ian,
Well I am no expert on anything but I would be fairly sure that this exhaust pipe is to put it bluntly a cock up and even after years of buying and fitting or trying to fit remade parts I fail to understand why these companies do seem to able to replicate a part properly.
I mean we live in a day and age where the technology and machinary is far superior to the days when an M20 was built yet they still can't make anything any good!
Cheers, Mike.

email (option): mdew01@hotmail.co.uk

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

Hi Ron,
I don't mind a bit of fettling I expect that but this tube that I have just bought is quite clearly not correct and looking at your first photo it is obvious to me that the exhaust pipe sits lower down and there is more clearance between it and the engine/ gearbox.For example I can only just about slip a finger between the top of the exhaust pipe and the bottom of the timing cover where as in the photo there is obviously more space. also i think they have angled the silencer up too much and even if I had not cut the bracket too short you would be hard pushed to bend the exhaust down enough to clear the underside of the toolbox let alone be able to open it. Had the exhaust sat a bit lower down ie if it was longer on the curved section then yes I think it could be fitted even with the silencers as they are.
The silencers look very nice by the way and I would be sure they were quiter than other types but not much use if the pipe is wrong.
Also I dont personally like to have to bend exhausts down in that way as I am not sure what force it might exert on the cylinder area around the exhaust port plus it should sit level and not really be sloping downwards at silencer end in my opinion.
I think the only thing I can do with this is to forget the tited up silencer and go for a standard one if indeed that will fit but the over all answer is to make the pipe correctly in the first place!
Cheers, Mike.

email (option): mdew01@hotmail.co.uk

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

Couldn't agree more..They've had plenty of opportunity to get it right, even to the extent of being supplied with originals as patterns....It's very annoying and you can only conclude they don't have the required skill set to achieve an accurate result.
I had a silencer from them earlier this year and it was louder, much louder, than the one it was replacing which had detached baffles....
No one should have to adapt anything to make it fit or be forced into modifying baffles to achieve a reasonable noise level...

The last Armours exhaust that I fitted for a customer about 10 years ago took me two days of work/modification to fit and the job didn't make me money, it cost me money...That was a WDM20...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

It can not be that hard can it to copy and original part providing of course that part is actually original and correct! Starting with a NOS part it should be straight forward but if you do like the Indians ie make copies of copies of copies you only get something will never be right. I think it is a real shame as it is not easy to find exhaust systems for our old vintage machines and infact I think Armours is probably the only source for all our odd bod stuff. I have bought some silencers for my model 26 AJS so I will see what they like!
I was just thinking back to not that many years a go when you were looking in to getting M20 cylinder heads and you telling me how much work was actually involved in making a pattern before you even cast anything but look what can be done now just with computers and 3d machines but it seems it is not easy to get and exhaust spot on!
Cheers, Mike.

email (option): mdew01@hotmail.co.uk

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

I have one for my M20, in stainless.
It is very very loud...😒

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

The one I bought was a copy of the one that Ron supplied which looks to have quite a bit of baffling inside so I am presuming if I can get it fit it will be reasonably quiet not that I mind a bit of a bark to my exhausts!
Mike.

email (option): mdew01@hotmail.co.uk

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

Great , just got one of these last year not got round to fitting it as I was accumulating parts, suffice to say I am not looking forward to it now, everybody goes on about how rubbish Indian parts are , and then A reputable company like this can't even get it right.

email (option): chriscool@sky.com

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

I'm lucky enough to have found NOS for my 16H and it just fits straight on...Everything that Jan makes for a whole range of machines...just fits straight on....What sort of jig system is it that Armours use which makes them seemingly incapabable of achieving a decent fit ? The problem to my mind is simply one of a "That's good enough" mentality.

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

It will probably be worth checking yours first as you may have a good one!
I can not condem the company on the back of one exhaust but mine certainly is not as it should be.
Mike.

email (option): mdew01@hotmail.co.uk

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

FWIW .
I get my pipes made by Barry at overlander down here in OZ.
Never had a problem with a pipe that I have picked up in person.
I have had problems with pipes sent through the mail
Contry to popular belief they are quite fragile & easily bent slightly out of shape.
Would not be a problem if they were despatched in a heavy wooden frame but no BSA rider would be willing to stump up for the freight costs.
I don't know how Armours do their pipes bu Barry has his coded for his 3 axis bending machine so every pipe is exactly right when it comes off the bender.

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

If you think there are problems with M.20 exhaust pipes and silencers just try some of the replica offerings for WD 16Hs. I don't think I have ever seen 2 pipes the same and the problem is enhanced by it having to fit to two securing points as opposed to the one for an M.20 pipe. As for the WD 16H silencer I haven't seen a replica in the UK that was even close.

Of course I may not be looking in the right place so if you can please put me right - I would be most grateful.

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

Re: exhaust problems BSA WM20

My last and final dealing with Armours was years ago and I will never buy one again!

Two complete system were ordered, one for my 1961 Triumph Bonneville and one for a Norton Commando. Neither one could be made to fit. They were not even close. The front mounting brackets for the Triumph were off at least an inch and would have required removing the chrome to move the brackets to the correct place. One the silencer was fitted, its mounting brackets were in the wrong place too.

A friend of mine ordered a Velocette system and it was impossible to fit at all unless you left the foot rests off the bike.

I don't know how they remain in business when everything they make is crap!

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