Brexit is done, I voted out and we are where we are, so hopefully this thread will not turn into another in out right wrong argument.
We have a deal which means no trade tariffs on goods but there is still a tax question which seems to be appearing on ebay according to talk on another forum I belong to.
But I am genuinely curious to what the situation is for a jumbler from the UK having a stall in the EU and an EU stall holder having a stall at say Netley, Beaulieu or W&P?
Is a van full of second hand and maybe new reproduction goods potentially for sale in another country subject to tax as it cross's a border? or would you have to carry a full manifest of the goods and then pay tax on items sold and maybe bought?
Is this a "Services" rather than a "Goods" question in which case it may not be covered in our EU/UK agreement?
Has anyone already had experience of this in other countries, US and Canada for example?
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Interesting that you brought this up Rob. I just tried to buy something on ebay that was advertised for £40.99. When I went to pay, the total was £49.19. I queried it with the seller and got this reply directly from ebay. Ron
Dear buyer,
Thanks for your message .
The extra is the tax that ebay collects not charged by our seller.
Happy New Year and hope you have a great 2021 year.
Regards，
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
That's VAT by the look of it...Was it a new part?....If it was then nothings changed apart from the fact e bay is collecting it and not the seller...
When I bought my oil pump from ABSAF in Holland I still paid VAT at the Dutch rate, though ABSAF levied that as the seller...
If it wasn't a new part I'd be interested to know what the tax is..I'm not sure if VAT is/was levied on second hand parts..
Perhaps a non vat registered seller can't collect VAT but it's charged when it crosses the border?.....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Ron I just purchased 2 long bell mouths thru Ebay UK and 10 per cent AUST GST was added to my bill. That's OK but then when I sell parts to USA or New Zealand they also collect 10 per cent. I am wondering if Ebay is getting rich out of collecting tax and not passing it on???
email (option): ukcarbsathotmail.com
This is what I ordered which I see he has now re-priced. It's a UK seller, and I've never seen anything advertised before which doesn't include any VAT. I searched the internet and have ordered one from Amazon for £38 odd including free delivery. Indian Tim brought one of these to my house last week to work on his Chief. I was very impressed with it. Ron
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/500KG-Motorbike-Motorcycle-Table-Bench-Workshop-Scissor-Lift-Jack-Stand-Paddock/284131888550?hash=item4227948da6:g:2pEAAOSw-tBfzYrZ
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Hi Robb
If euro zone jumblers - and there are quite a few who make trips here for various events - are made to declare their goods & pay vat in advance - then claim it back after their departure & declaration of goods sold - it will finish their participation with events here - this is a possibility from what I have heard - yet tbc
As I will be returning to Ireland this year - should have been 2020, I will watch carefully to see if it’s worth my while to travel and be a jumbler at events like Kempton, netley marsh or vmcc events like shepton or founders day
Big events like netley - beaulieu & war & peace have always been supported well by eurozone traders - if it doesn’t make sense financially or from a “paperwork hassle “ point of view - they will not participate actively
This reminds me of pre free trade times - travelling to U.K. to buy parts & trying to ensure the customs didn’t feel your collar on the way back in - somehow - this new arrangement doesn’t appear like progress to me - we will be like pirates going through with our rusty treasure watching our import value limits.
Until recently - no arrangement could be formalised until a “deal” could be achieved - now that this “deal” is in place - the dust can settle & officials here & in EU can confirm what is and what is not permitted .
I have been sending parts to EU zone in last few weeks & it saddened me to have to complete customs declaration forms - it used to be so simple & procedure free - but now it is what it is
Let’s hope Brexit doesn’t deter EU jumblers coming here or our motorcycle riding friends who all enjoy their shopping trips to the U.K.
jo’b
email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com
[' It's a UK seller, and I've never seen anything advertised before which doesn't include any VAT...']
Now I'm confused...If it's a UK seller they will levy and quote VAT on the part if they are VAT registered...If they are not VAT registered you'll still pay the equivalent of the VAT in the price but it won't be listed separately.. The fact is no unregistered retailer is going to absorb the VAT hit from their supplier, it's just passed on and included in the quoted price...
So, that's all normal...Where does an ebay charge of 20% (equivalent to VAT) come into that transaction?.....
Also, what is the relevance of UK transactions to Eurojumbles or the movement/purchase of parts from abroad.??....I think I must have missed something here...Please explain..Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Dear buyer,
Thanks for your message .
The extra is the tax that ebay collects not charged by our seller.
Happy New Year and hope you have a great 2021 year.
Regards，
Mark
email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com
I did mention ebay's new tax's in my original post, it may not be a coincidence that they appeared as the UK left the single market, isn't ebay registered in Luxembourg?
There are several large issues here which we will all have to come to terms with, quite a percentage of stalls at W&P, Netley, Beaulieu and Stafford are European so its quite possible that these events will be smaller from now on, and I imagine there will be an increase in events across Europe to compensate.
It will be interesting to see how it all settles down over time and after Covid19 of course.
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
['I did mention ebay's new tax's in my original post, it may not be a coincidence that they appeared as the UK left the single market, isn't ebay registered in Luxembourg?...']
DOH!..I missed that, must have been reading it too quickly...Some clarification by e bay would be nice seeing as they're taking the money...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
[' Starting 1 January 2021, eBay is required to collect VAT on certain orders delivered to UK addresses:
•Orders up to £135 sent from outside the UK
•Orders where the item is located in the UK, but the seller is not a UK seller...']
That could be it....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I bought something from America off ebay and ebay added the customs duty when I paid. I wasn't happy about this as most small value items go through without being charged.
email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk
I've just bought something from here in the UK and no tax was added, so I was wrong its nothing to do with ebay being in Luxembourg, its just a coincidence that ebay has been made to collect revenue at this time.
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
living in canada 20 mins from the US border here is what i have to contend with
1. buying from the UK, i dont pay VAT, i get the seller to list on the package that it is "motorcycle parts over 25yrs" so i dont pay duty although sometimes customs charge it anyway and i have to pay it to Fedex/canada post etc then reclaim it from the govt.
tax is always due but mostly they never charge it, its up to them i guess
2. buying from e bay in the US, if i have it sent to a shipping/recieving company on their side of the border then e.bay adds the US tax, i then cross the border to pick it up and when i cross back into Canada they collect the Canadian taxes/duty if they feel like it, mostly under $200 they let it slide, depends on: how you look, how they feel, which way the wind is blowing, what their spouse did last night, etc etc. they have guns and attitudes to go along with them.
3 buying from e-bay in the US and getting it shipped to Canada, ebay does not collect the tax they leave it up to customs again, mostly they dont charge.
email (option): taybrig@shaw.ca
Hi Kevin
Do you have Auto jumbles, vehicle shows or swap meets where traders cross the border with stalls?
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Almost never, the few that there are just see Joe public going to look or buy stuff, it seems that the US customs are nice to their citizens going back with their bits but the Canadian customs not so much, most i think just want to avoid the hassle
Within a 2-3 hr drive either way i know of only 2 Cdn and 2 US yearly swap meets
i have about 30 Brit bikes and am so jealous of the whole vintage bike scene you enjoy in the UK, even the support getting rare parts made for example, it is so hard here to get a machine shop to make something for you, they only seem to want to make 900 aluminium brackets at a time, i recently found a large shop that will do anything i want and thats because the owner is from coventry and got his C&G their, of course it costs an arm and a leg, it seems that if you guys break a rocker arm on your 1914 Triumph then theres a guy in the next village that will whip one up for you lol
cheers
Kevin
email (option): taybrig@shaw.ca
Well I am one of those EU ‘jumblers’ as I live in France and come back for most Kempton meetings etc, I also sell Brake related stuff on E Bay. This whole situation will probably put an end to my participation at UK events if the hassle factor increases. To have to complete paperwork etc and make declarations on goods that range from £5 up to £50 would be one example.
I have had conversations with other EU guys about this subject and two things come to mind straight away from a ‘jumblers’ point of view. Firstly, how strict are Customs officials are going to be on a van load of rusty old parts etc, Secondly, how can they determine a value on stuff if it isn’t priced up and how can they prove what your destination is with said parts. So there is a little bit of hope we might get over now and again?
I currently pay my tax in France as this is where my business is registered and I declare my EBay sales here also. My problem with EBay is that they take so much money off you in charges and then PayPal (which is an EBay related company) take their cut also. So to add a tax on top makes goods more expensive to the UK customer will probably end my usage of EBay. So the only way forward for me is to concentrate selling direct from my website which means I don’t have the EBay charges to take into account and can keep the goods sensibly priced taking the tax implications into consideration. A balance in order to continue trading. It’s all an unknown at present, but I hope for better times ahead on all fronts.
Hey Ho! Let’s Go! As The Ramones once sang! 😆
email (option): parkin.gary@orange.fr
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*Savings based on annual total sales volumes, and comparisons of (a) prior eBay final value fees plus typical 3rd party payment provider fees, with (b) new eBay final value fees (without any 3rd party processing fees).
[' Most sellers will pay the same or less than before*...']
Yeh, that really gives me a warm glow:neutral_face: ....If they are managing payments (or anything else) you are not likely to get more (or even the same) in most cases....Last time I looked ebay wasn't a charity...
Note the * after that statement and.... [*Savings based on annual total sales volumes, and comparisons of (a) prior eBay final value fees plus typical 3rd party payment provider fees, with (b) new eBay final value fees (without any 3rd party processing fees). '] ...
That sounds like a theoretical best case scenario that probably rarely happens...A bit like the fuel consumption figures on the urban cycle, cheap nuclear powered electricity and a fairer society..:laughing: :laughing: ....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Ebay seller fees are often better than at other auction houses, and there are no buyer fees "yet" which still makes it a useful place especially if you buy more than you sell like me.
Recently a friend in Canada bought a very light item from an auction house in Exeter for a tenner, the auction house charged him a percentage plus vat on their cut, they then passed him on to their outsourced posting company who demanded £36 to send it, he contacted me, I was passing the place that week anyway, picked it up and posted it to him for £3ish.
So ebay is still OK in my opinion.
And currently Paypal fees for receiving money are quite high, if ebay deals directly with your bank wouldn't this remove those fees and save around half of selling costs?
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
I have almost sold off everything I need to via ebay, after that has all gone I decided to only use it for the occasional item I need.
I have been considering moving away from both ebay and paypal[two cheeks of the same arse by the way] for some time.
There are other sales platforms for the things I'm likely to buy and sell,face book[spit spit] is free and local; etsy for craft stuff, ebid might be another option and for ephemera of the sort that might interest folk on here Delcampe is worth a look.
ebay, like a lot of social media is now too dictatorial and too big for its own boots; its CEO said saome years ago that he wanted to get rid of the small seller, I forget the term he used but it was quite patronising. fleabayers or the like.
Bike forums such as this might well have an oppurtunity to be a specialist sales platform.
['Bike forums such as this might well have an oppurtunity to be a specialist sales platform...']
I've sold quite a bit through the forum over the years...I like it as it goes directly to the blokes that need it and the only additional cost they pick up is postage at cost...It can't really get much better than that...It's a good way for anybody that comes here to dispose of their surplus parts and many do, I've bought a few myself as well!...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
The antique and 'brocante' markets appear to be close to opening in the UK again and it seems that they're worried. All items will have to be declared individually. There is no exemption for second-hand goods.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/05/small-time-dealers-fear-brexit-could-decimate-antiques-trade-in-uk
Individuals will have a personal limit of around £400 I believe and it will be difficult for the authorities to check values.
Personally, I'm dreading having my first boot-full of old junk confiscated at Calais.
My pal tells me that if you have an ebay business account (which he does) ALL payments from sales will be paid directly into that account with no option to make a 'private' or 'personal' sale....When you take that money out of the account that becomes a business 'drawing' and it's all taxable as it would be with a business...He's unsure at this point whether he can have a non business account as well for his personal, non business sales...
Regarding the possibility of Eurojumbles and forgetting any Brexit related complications I wouldn't imagine there'll be much enthusiasm from the government for an influx of visitors from Europe with the present covid/vaccine situation in many countries...
In that regard I think 2022 is the more likely time for a resumption of something like a 'normal' situation..A number of events are pencilled in to be taking place after our restrictions end on June 21st. but it's anybodys guess what the attendances will be like...
Do I want to chance £240 for a stall at Stafford?...Unsure at the moment....Netley in September is cheap enough to be tsken as a nice weekend away without worrying too much about costs/sales and I'm planning to do that, along with Founders Day at Stanford Hall...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
It would seem likely that most of those from mainland Europe of Autojumble-attending age will have had both their jabs and carry a certificate by late August. The numbers are quite small and in the scheme of things, our behaviour a little lower-risk than the crowds who get out of their heads in Ibiza.
Unless some changes are made to the trading agreement though, it doen't make much difference whether the problem arises this year or in 2022. Foreign traders and buyers are not likely to be attending in any numbers.
Whilst still living in the UK, I am booking all forth coming Elk Promotions jumbles here in the south east until end of July,
I will be at Kempton in June & july & founders day too
I have reserved 2 spaces in Stafford for July
that will me be more or less finished as a jumbler in the Uk as the uncertainty of bringing stuff over to do jumbles with from Ireland where I will be after July will be far too complicated from what I can make out. Speaking with 2 people I know not UK based who have attended events here for years, indicates that they will still travel but not as jumblers and only when the vaccine program in that country permits
there are some Euro based jumblers whose stuff we all buy and often wait for Stafford, netley or Beaulieu to meet with them, will not be travelling any longer I suspect
I personally have no issues with Jumbles in summer here - the general make up of people age wise attending such events will be, by and large fully vaccinated by the time June comes round - sensible behaviour of the public and attention of organisers minimising risks to covid transmission should be re-assuring.
Just my opinion on this, it may not match those of many, but I welcome any semblance to a form of normality and if that involves talking old bike rubbish in the middle of a field, then i'm up for it
hope to see some of you there
Jo'B
email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com
I'm planning to be at Kempton and Founders Day in June...Unsure about Stafford at the moment....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I've booked a pitch at Shepton Mallet VMCC AJ in November and they have suggested that you may legally need a Covid passport to get in by then, so I went online and it took two minutes using my NHS number, it was free and it arrived a week later, simples.
I'm also planning a day trip to Beaulieu on the Saturday, apparently its going to be quite a bit smaller this year, which is more to do with Brexit than Covid.
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
I'll be at Netley Marsh in September, Stafford in October and the VMCC event in November...Mortons are saying they have reasonable levels of bookings from Europe, but the would wouldn't they...?...I'll find out soon on that one...
One thing that is clear is that you can still get Covid even after two 'jabs', so a reasonably precautionary approach is still the 'modus operandi' it seems...
I have the card given to me by the NHS after my second jab and that is proof of vaccination...That should be enough to get me into the events above if proof is needed...When I booked my stall for Netley Marsh nothing was mentioned in this regard....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
I have the little card too, but its not the recognised paper "passport", probably because you can fill the card in yourself and a large proportion of them haven't even got the name gap at the top filled in.
Chances are no one will ever ask to look at it but I would hate to be turned away after a long journey.
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Well because it only takes a few seconds and is free, I just ordered my passport letter. Although I did at first mistakenly quote my NI number instead of my NHS number. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
The U.K. NHS letter is advisable & is better recognised than the card issued at the time of our jabs
It takes a few minutes to complete on line, it’s free & arrives within days
Despite the fact it’s not requested to date from show organisers - personally I think it best to have if in the case of requirement or sudden changes to criteria - it’s unlikely at this stage but with the wonderful leadership of government displayed so far - nothing is beyond them
On the Autojumble side - I have spoken to 3 well known continental traders & one from Southern Ireland - none are attending this year - covid bring an additional problem for Dutch traders due to quarantine requirements upon their return home - however the main reason is Brexit - with all 4 stating that unless a smooth passage through customs either side as pre Brexit are assured - their attendance at events such as this in the future will be as visitors & not traders
I have always traded well with Euro visitors at netley but suspect Morton’s projections are not in line with reality
Netley & Kempton park in September are most likely my last jumbles I will attend as a trader whilst living in the U.K. - after I relocate end of next month - I believe it’s impractical to attend due to customs both sides wanting to rip me a new ass every trip over & back
It remains to be seen if beaulieu can recover the yellow field in time due to the fall off in total no of euro traders / I hope it does as it’s possibly my favourite week end of the entire year - for buying, selling, swapping & meeting up for beer, grub & good company
Jo’b
email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com
This is a 'belt and braces' measure that it is best to carry out...
I spoke to the VMCC today about Shepton Mallet and they advised me that currently there will be no requirement for a vaccine pass at the event as far as they (and the owners of the venue) are concerned...
However, if in the intervening time between now and the event the government changes the rules (law) to bring in such a requirement then the VMCC will obviously comply...The risk is, of course, that the rule change may come too close to the event to respond...
The VMCC also confirmed the vaccination card given at the time of the second jab won't pass muster in that case...In the event of such a law change every event in the country would be similarly affected, so I guess this is a must have item if you want to be sure of entry to anywhere at a later date...
Thanks for raising the issue Rob as I hadn't got wind of it...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Just had a final chance email to have a stall at Netley, it seems quite close to the event?
Does the chap in the black T shirt look familiar?
And I've also had an email about a Stratford upon Avon Auto Jumble on September 5th, quite handy if you are on your way home from Netley or Beaulieu with a van full of unsold stock, I wonder how many fresh stalls there will be there, I've not done this one is it any good?
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Hi Robb
That is Guy & Marnic from Belgium - photo from a few years back
I will be at netley on stand B17 near the top with my M20 stuff
I will go to beaulieu as a visitor this year after netley
Job
email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com
I should get to Netley at about 1pm on Thursday...I'm not holding my breath for a record breaking event with all the current pressures and Netley has been struggling for a while now for various reasons...However, I like the venue, the atmosphere and I'm happy just to get out!...
I'm looking forward to meeting up with friends and immersing myself in bikes for a day or two....Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Had a great day on Saturday at Beaulieu, it was a field down but there was still plenty there for my one day visit. Nice to see some friends for the fist time in two years and because of covid safety plans allowing more of the site to be available early I found the secret SOE museum which although shut has a Welbike in the window. A little disappointed with the main museum planting this monstrosity in front of the Triumph 3TW though.
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Can't say I think a Honda Pan European warrants being in a museum at all really, aren't they still in production?...It's not a particularly noteworthy or iconic machine either...
Netley Marsh was, as expected, relatively quiet taking everything into account...A few visitors from over the channel made the trip though apparently there was a lot of covid related paperwork etc. involved...
I had a very enjoyable show and met up again with few old friends and customers...The weather was kind, the atmosphere relaxed and I did quite well with sales...Also, I was after two particular parts for my new project and managed to find both, and at reasonable prices...All in all a good weekend...Next stop Stafford in October!...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Belgium had probably its first post-virus jumble today, at Wieze. A lot smaller and quieter than it used to be but there was some good WD stuff...only thing was that Lex beat me to it all....I passed on the nice 1937 WD16H engine with stamped census number..as the price was €800...
It was great to meet up with Lex, Nick, Bastiaan, Rob van den Brink, Marnic...most of them for the first time in almost two years...
As is usual with a Belgian jumble, the bars receive almost equal stand space to the traders...and I forgot to take any photos...