Does anyone have experience of the Indian made vokes filter?
Cheers Barry

email (option): deadhorsesdontgetbackup@hotmail.co.uk

The ones I've seen look like they were hand beaten with a stone by a Wallah sitting cross legged in the sand:confused: You would think that someone out there should be able to reproduce them accurately.....It's not "rocket surgery":thinking_face: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Not a big fan then Ron

email (option): deadhorsesdontgetbackup@hotmail.co.uk

Not so far Barry.....But willing to be proved wrong. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I spent an entire weekend sanding,beating & refabricating an Indian Vokes filter. Like Ron said,it did look hand beaten with a stone.
The rounded corners were rough and the mesh was of the wrong pattern. Until I get hold of an original it'll have to do.

email (option): Fuzzyempire@hotmail.com

Stuart Bray has one! Ron
https://www.stuart-bray-motorcycles.co.uk/parts/bsa-wm20-spares/vokes-air-filter-set-genuine-filter-with-correct-pipe-and-elbow-for-wm20/

And Peter long has the best repros I've seen. Mention my name to either if you want. Ron
http://www.cornucopia-enterprises.de/spares-bsa_pre.html

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

"Stuart Bray has one"

Chuff me, two grand for a tin box and a bit of hose. Some one will love it though.

Thank heavens Norton didn't use them. Or did they?

What a laugh...I can get a new Gold Star crank with pressed up flywheels, needle roller big end and a Carrillo con rod for less than half of that!!...:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: ....or three all alloy NEB clutches and some change...or four ABSAF high capacity oil pumps....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I think Norton used them before anyone? I've also heard that Norton fitted a sideways hinged petrol cap for Vokes Bikes. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I was thinking relatively, but more in terms of the relative costs of production and the amount of engineering applied....

All these things are made at todays prices, with todays material and labour costs so the real value (cost) can be calculated...I actually haven't priced the production of this piece but I suspect the production costs, with say, a 100% mark up wouldn't come to £2000....It may be there are too many middle men involved, all wanting a 100% profit...

Whatever it is I think it's bloody expensive at that price....For only three times that price you could buy a nice running M20 and you might get a Vokes filter with it...:laughing: Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

AAAAArgh. I'll have to start saving up then, thanks for the pics Ron, I do remember seeing these of Vokes equipped Norton photos now, I must have had a case of selective memory and blanked them out, the potential cost of the filters being too much to bear.
Seriously though, the Corucopia Vokes look very good, Ron can you remember approx. how much they are?

Tony

Norton was the actual developer/designer of the tank top Aircleaners made by Vokes later on.
There is an MWEE (Mechanical Warfare Experimental Establishment) report of October 1936 which describes the Panel Type Air Cleaner as being manufactured by "Messrs. Norton Motorcycles LTd." describing a.o. the felt tubes being folded over a spring loaded rod at front and both ends of felt tube fixed to the "header tank". The report describes the results of tests on efficiency and restrictions on a WD Norton 16H. The test proposed improvements and these were tested and reported on Nov 1936.

I assume that in the end the production was relegated to Vokes as that was an dedicated Air Filter manufacturer (for cars and aeroplanes as well).
Norton was also the first to apply the cut off at the rear end on the petrol tank (1938). These had indeed sideways rotating caps as can be seen in the picture of the Australian one in Ron's remark (no hing visible, it is on the left side instead of rear.
What remains a bit strange is that they did not pursue this practice in later years apart from 2 known contracts.
India Office 1939 and C9062 (of 1941)contracts seem to indicate that they used a modified petrol tank. A number of pre war Australian machines also had the tank top air cleaner and cut-off petrol tank.
The India office spare parts list also gives the details and part numbers in a typical Norton way of identification using just 4 digit numbers.
The BSA spares list and VAOS also refer to these Norton part numbers.
For me there is no doubt who developed the Air Cleaners and their use afterwards known as Vokes tank top Aircleaners.
They were also tested on Matchless G3 and BSA M20, on both tank top and at the side near the rear wheel hanging on its side.

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

480 Euros or £426.95 from Cornucopia....plus shipping and probably plus VAT...£426.95 plus vat is £512.40...

That looks pretty good to me compared to £1950 for an original...But I guess it's how you view repro stuff and where the ends of your pockets are....

I confess I got my wires crossed with the original post and thought Stuart was selling a repro filter for £1950!!!:flushed: ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Cornucopia Vokes Cleaners are definitly the better repro's to look for, at least some years ago.
Only recognisable by tiny detail differences in manufacturing process.
I am not sure they are made by the same firm still.
I also understand they are closing down their business and selling out.
I have no idea if there is anybody going to take this part over.

Cheers

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Rob and Ian, thanks for your responses, I suppose around £500 ain't too bad for a good accurate replica when you consider the amount of tooling and work required, and it's about a quarter of the price of that original,but even that one has some replica parts. At nearly 2K I'd hope for everything to be NOS, but I'm sure Stuart knows his market and good luck to him. Maybe the Cornucopia ones are no longer available.
I don't think it's going to be an issue for me anyway as the Vokes bikes look to have a cutaway tank for the hose and neither my 16H or B4 have this.

Tony.

Ah, Tony,

As in my first reply, late contract bikes like S5161 were delivered with Vokes filters but without the tank cut-off.
Not having such tank is therefore no reason not to apply one.
Many filters were applied on existing bikes going to the desert and these would not have had the cut-off as well.
I also read that many drivers removed the filters when riding in Italy and further North because of the awkward position in relation to certain body parts as well as being noisy.
There is no historical reason to apply a Vokes on any bike that was used in the North Western campaign.

Cheers,

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Does anyone have a set of technical drawings for one?, I could get one made here in NZ

email (option): deadhorsesdontgetbackup@hotmail.co.uk

Hi Rob, thanks again, sorry, I hadn't read your first reply properly and it is now clear to me that I do not need to fit a Vokes so will save a whole load of wonga. I did think that even with the cutaway tank the filter installation looks ungainly and nowhere as neat as the M20 setup, I'm not surprised they were dumped by some DRs
I am always amazed at the depth of knowledge and information freely given on this forum. The research into engine frame and contract numbers is something I just can't seem to do, yet it is so important. I just like riding and working on the bikes, can't do them figgers and numbuz.

Best wishes Tony.

Peter Long from Cornucopia borrowed an original from me, and had it copied in the Czech republic, he has not many left, and doubt he will have them made again, he ordered some of my repro elbows and hoses, so he might sell them complete.

I'm still waiting on the carb adaptors, but when those are in, I will have them available again.



Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welb**e.net