I have just been looking through my 1939 BSA Spare Parts Booklet and have noted that whilst KM20s started with the frame no.KM20 101 the engines were divided into two groups - the 1939 standard M.20 commenced with engine no. KMS20 101 whilst the 1939 De Luxe M20 commenced with engine no. KM20 101.
By implication therefore it would appear that across the two model variants matching frame and engine numbers would be highly unlikely.
Interesting Keith! I wonder if this could explain the double entries in the ledgers…?
Jan
email (option): wd.register@gmail.com
Jan
I would be interested if anyone has an M.20 engine pre-fixed KMS20.
I would have thought that the BSA Spares Book would be an authoritive source of information but perhaps others might be aware that it is not as reliable as it should be.
Wartime source documents are very dangerous to rely on, one of the BSA factory ledges starts listing completed machines as having an "LM" prefix rather than "WM" which was presumable the natural follow on from H J K, we don't know if any machines were actually stamped "LM".
I think the Australian Ledgers may offer a clue as to weather these numbers were ever actually stamped onto machines, these are all impressed BSA in the Australian Forces in the middle part of the war, its difficult to say if the ledgers were compiled from log books or from the actual machines but they should have matched in any case.
There are a few models bearing the extra letter but no KM20s or WM20s, there are obviously some original typos "JM10" for one and maybe I made a few too?
AMF Serial Frame Engine
35655 EX 285 T40018P
34114 JM10 1418 ? Y4458P
34356 KB24 348 ? V41006P
35491 HB20 6135 HB23 1278
35690 HB20 48 HB23 560
35750 HB20 5823 HB23 1190
35808 HB20 4056 HB23 851
34853 HB24 3205 HB24 1931
35068 ? ? HB24 2320
35475 HB21 1980 HB24 384
35503 HB24 2317 HB24 1482
35504 HB24 2733 HB24 1516
35860 HB24 745 HB24 343
86076 ? ? HB24 1463
86079 HB24 1925 HB24 1087
35591 HB24 1687 HB25 146
34355 JB24 393 HB26 745
35587 HB24 3784 HB26 1383
86056 HB24 995 HB26 581
36366 ? ? HM 27
32173 HM19 151 HM20 119
32178 HM19 1921 HM20 568
32295 HM19 1982 HM20 576
32741 HM19 1962 HM20 499
34957 HM19 4149 HM20 1173
35114 ? ? HM20 1148
35153 ? ? HM20 245
35226 ? ? HM20 1144
36244 ? ? HM20 160
36327 ? ? HM20 614
36337 ? ? HM20 140
86508 HM19 4399 HM20 1304
13271 ? ? HM21 681
32364 HM19 2144 HM21 472
32695 HM19 1301 HM21 388
32781 HM19 4478 HM21 990
33068 HM19 4343 HM21 931
33236 HM19 399 HM21 248
33242 HM19 1282 HM21 903
33321 HM19 516 HM21 278
34994 HM19 5036 HM21 1037
35163 ? ? HM21 206
35278 ? ? HM21 1041
35415 HM19 1140 HM21 392
35752 HM19 1250 HM21 332
35783 HM19 1205 HM21 312
36243 ? ? HM21 781
36245 ? ? HM21 471
36362 ? ? HM21 114
86509 HM19 435 HM21 194
13270 ? ? HM22 525
13309 HM19 1656 HM22 438
32180 HM19 2501 HM22 647
32184 HM19 2351 HM22 570
32190 HM19 2481 HM22 623A
32297 HM19 2368 HM22 543
32367 HM19 709 HM22 226
32380 HM19 3381 HM22 951
32752 HM19 2433 HM22 641
32774 HM19 604 HM22 170
32784 HM19 601 HM22 171
32808 HM19 2363 HM22 544
33129 HM19 2497 HM22 650
33306 HM19 2402 HM22 547
34984 HM19 2393 HM22 624
34900 HM19 4533 HM22 1109
34905 HM19 4692 HM22 1152
34938 HM19 2261 HM22 482
35003 HM19 2291 HM22 501
35019 HM19 4916 HM22 1230
35020 HM19 4503 HM22 1112
35026 HM19 4777 HM22 1293
35027 HM19 3517 HM22 523
35040 ? ? HM22 723
35090 ? ? HM22 645
35128 ? ? HM22 356
35135 ? ? HM22 271
35178 ? ? HM22 858
35260 ? ? HM22 248
35272 ? ? HM22 190
35353 HM19 588 HM22 187
35433 ? ? HM22 188
35536 HM 3239 HM22 892
35651 HM19 608 HM22 159
35658 JM19 1408 HM22 393
35659 HM19 692 HM22 240
35683 HM19 3213 HM22 894
35701 HM19 546 HM22 133
35714 HM19 583 HM22 179
35728 HM19 675 HM22 208
35763 HM19 1610 HM22 834
35885 HM19 2771 HM22 756
36246 ? ? HM22 480
36249 ? ? HM22 168
36332 ? ? HM22 173
36333 ? ? HM22 920
36363 ? ? HM22 910
86043 HM19 4689 HM22 1284
86089 HM19 1406 HM22 387
86097 HM19 3173 HM22 901
86098 HM19 3237 HM22 761
86501 HM19 4162 HM22 1301
86512 HM19 2276 HM22 459
86517 HM19 2348 HM22 590
86524 HM19 1251 HM22 340
86531 HM19 2258 HM22 516
32296 HM19 2482 HM23 1000
32366 HM19 2420 HM23 1023
32368 HM19 1473 HM23 664
32372 HM19 937 HM23 303
32583 HM19 2869 HM23 1116
32690 KB21 1532 HM23 589
32696 HM19 2794 HM23 1194
32780 HM19 4767 HM23 1498
32782 HM19 2486 HM23 1008
32786 HM19 1470 HM23 590
33120 HM19 926 HM23 293
33304 HM19 4813 HM23 1473
34897 HM19 4980 HM23 1627
34982 HM19 4768 HM23 1455
34984 HM19 3037 HM23 1113
34987 HM19 2479 HM23 1006
35012 HM19 874 HM23 315
35076 ? ? HM23 939
35143 ? ? HM23 652
35166 ? ? HM23 6665
35175 ? ? HM23 809
35219 ? ? HM23 657
35279 ? ? HM23 189
35343 HM19 890 HM23 183
35352 HM19 2827 HM23 1146
35423 HM19 4935 HM23 1569
35474 HM19 867 HM23 184
35529 HM19 1005 HM23 398
35634 HM19 1032 HM23 421
35645 HM19 3033 HM23 1424
35748 JM19 1031 HM23 416
35805 HM19 881 HM23 317
35814 HM19 4728 HM23 1536
35845 HM19 1661 HM23 888
35877 HM19 1072 HM23 478
36235 ? ? HM23 374
36242 ? ? HM23 1727
36247 ? ? HM23 378
36321 ? ? HM23 400
36322 ? ? HM23 700
36324 ? ? HM23 677
36326 ? ? HM23 383
36329 ? ? HM23 1418
36330 ? ? HM23 952
36335 ? ? HM23 800
36336 ? ? HM23 769
36338 ? ? HM23 873
36339 ? ? HM23 381
36360 ? ? HM23 369
36361 ? ? HM23 486
36364 ? ? HM23 953
86061 HM19 1476 HM23 593
86062 HM19 728 HM23 114
86074 HM19 2783 HM23 1218
86094 HM19 1461 HM23 578
86103 HM19 2718 HM23 1185
86520 HM19 2811 HM23 969
34874 HM19 425 HM41 232
35876 JM19 2498 J22 444
31229 JB20 4645 JB20 1222
32355 JB24 1137 JB20 689
33314 JB20 194 JB20 285
35619 JB20 1376 JB20 762
32687 JB20 3894 JB21 1199
31022 JB20 2270 JB23 476
31380 JB20 809 JB23 218
31531 JB20 933 JB23 205
32172 JB20 2604 JB23 780
32175 JB20 3000 JB23 640
32198 JB20 3015 JB23 649
32268 JB20 2965 JB23 770
32274 389 JB23 1117
32902 JB20 4499 JB23 1059
32906 JB20 2287 JB23 468
32915 JB20 4638 JB23 1131
33020 JB20 1527 JB23 482
33105 JB20 2863 JB23 749
33132 JB20 4631 JB23 1137
33139 JB20 893 JB23 213
33205 JB20 2317 JB23 537
33986 JB20 621 JB23 223
33993 JB20 829 JB23 452
33995 JB21 859 JB23 231
34023 JB20 224 JB23 441
34040 JB20 1170 JB23 454
34056 JB20 2281 JB23 447
34060 JB20 857 JB23 263
34077 JB20 2260 JB23 475
34079 ? ? JB23 458
34081 JB20 830 JB23 444
34112 JB20 2268 JB23 462
34134 JB20 1171 JB23 446
34148 JB20 4228 JB23 966
34201 JB20 2000 JB23 445
34263 JB26 3664 JB23 861
34290 JB20 2839 JB23 737
34293 JB20 1248 JB23 422
34315 JB20 657 JB23 158
34343 JB20 289 JB23 532
34344 JB20 3671 JB23 865
34366 JB20 923 JB23 216
34421 JB20 2954 JB23 798
34428 JB20 1322 JB23 795
34444 JB20 949 JB23 463
34488 JB20 2265 JB23 433
34496 JB20 810 JB23 269
34525 JB20 3682 JB23 867
34529 JB20 882 JB23 266
34546 ? ? JB23 241
34550 JB20 926 JB23 264
34551 JB20 2303 JB23 760
34571 JB20 880 JB23 270
34584 JB20 914 JB23 235
34589 JB20 4238 JB23 967
34598 JB20 2911 JB23 794
34616 JB20 4222 JB23 956
34617 JB20 922 JB23 240
34634 JB20 3673 JB23 864
34640 JB20 1303 JB23 802
34643 JB20 813 JB23 273
34664 JB20 1567 JB23 759
34671 JB20 4240 JB23 961
34686 JB20 1040 JB23 464
34708 JB20 2946 JB23 790
34730 JB20 178 JB23 141
34744 JB20 1295 JB23 478
34751 JB20 4248 JB23 963
34774 JB20 3670 JB23 870
34845 JB20 2283 JB23 443
34850 JB20 2246 JB23 455
34959 JM19 858 JB23 207
35580 JB20 1247 JB23 755
35606 JB20 2344 JB23 743
35629 JB20 1250 JB23 768
35680 JB20 960 JB23 753
86017 JB23 2755 JB23 1232
31273 JB24 468 JB24 126
31291 JB24 1138 JB24 699
31295 JB24 1394 JB24 739
31537 JB24 110 JB24 722
32259 JB24 858 JB24 753
32375 JB24 206 JB24 1087
32581 JB24 1121 JB24 635
32862 JB24 687 JB24 707
32897 JB24 855 JB24 781
32929 JB24 1613 JB24 830
33025 JB24 3145 JB24 1132
33038 JB24 820 JB24 686
33095 JB24 443 JB24 120
33117 JB24 2136 JB24 1151
33119 JB24 1402 JB24 1148
33263 JB24 18 JB24 1141
33275 JB24 2147 JB24 1136
33987 JB24 1369 JB24 673
34015 JB24 451 JB24 157
34053 JB24 517 JB24 579
34054 JB24 497 JB24 272
34055 JB24 1794 JB24 875
34072 JB24 845 JB24 923
34074 JB24 1672 JB24 878
34078 JB24 572 JB24 527
34129 JB24 1192 JB24 774
34163 JB24 548 JB24 281
34244 JB24 577 JB24 154
34297 JB24 1230 JB24 681
34302 JB24 271 JB24 426
34320 JB24 548 JB24 166
34354 JB24 173 JB24 261
34410 JB24 1257 JB24 767
34411 JB24 1747 JB24 867
34414 JB24 1757 JB24 866
34499 JB24 350 JB24 161
34526 JB24 161 JB24 150
34539 JB24 469 JB24 152
34552 JB24 1773 JB24 871
34563 KB24 340 JB24 146
34577 JB24 287 JB24 568
34578 JB24 121 JB24 434
34583 JB24 661 JB24 499
34591 JB24 571 JB24 441
34714 JB24 188 JB24 484
34779 JB24 870 JB24 870
34818 JB24 1460 JB24 889
34858 ? ? JB24 925
34930 JB20 237 JB24 490
34958 TL 387 JB24 155
35034 ? ? JB24 1103
35106 ? ? JB24 873
35410 JB24 1517 JB24 1137
35494 JB24 208 JB24 500
35506 JB24 842 JB24 912
35576 JB24 1353 JB24 1579
35577 JB24 1642 JB24 95
35584 JB24 195 JB24 501
35862 JB24 817 JB24 736
81965 JB24 525
86530 JB24 831 JB24 898
445 JB24 1127
127992 JB24 762
31216 JB24 1146 JB25 126
31284 JB24 1203 JB25 124
31616 JB25 128
31030 JB26 676
31271 JB24 1363 JB26 649
31294 JB24 993 JB26 406
31342 JB24 785 JB26 278
31408 JB24 1017 JB26 427
32849 JB24 1699 JB26 674
32908 JB24 1602 JB26 677
32935 JB24 1335 JB26 650
33143 JB 2177 JB26 1071
33210 JB24 1208 JB26 648
33216 JB24 1154 JB26 414
33998 JB20 888 JB26 237
34061 JB24 795 JB26 310
34064 JB24 1991 JB26 820
34067 JB24 211 JB26 271
34099 JB24 779 JB26 295
34123 JB24 768 JB26 305
34133 JB24 773 JB26 268
34209 JB24 778 JB26 287
34240 JB24 1592 JB26 673
34256 JB24 1588 JB26 802
34262 JB24 1331 JB26 659
34283 JB24 1524 JB26 671
34285 JB24 793 JB26 304
34303 JB24 2456 JB26 1085
34311 JB24 2493 JB26 1077
34312 JB24 2121 JB26 169
34314 JB24 1787 JB26 809
34337 JB20 4134 JB26 810
34373 JB24 797 JB26 273
34375 K24 579 JB26 327
34400 JB24 796 JB26 281
34443 KB24 772 JB26 286
34458 JB24 201 JB26 818
34472 JB24 1662 JB26 714
34484 JB24 2495 JB26 1073
34501 JB24 1682 JB26 801
34502 JB24 2485 JB26 1076
34505 JB24 758 JB26 308
34596 JB24 540 JB26 274
34633 JB24 781 JB26 279
34636 JB24 1633 JB26 813
34653 JB20 2289 JB26 1078
34661 JB24 787 JB26 280
34662 JB24 1947 JB26 821
34678 JB24 576 JB26 283
34696 JB24 757 JB26 291
34790 JB24 1647 JB26 803
34854 ? ? JB26 939
34924 JB24 788 JB26 284
34925 JB24 1585 JB26 666
34926 JB24 857 JB26 309
35025 JB24 1986 JB26 819
35412 JB24 950 JB26 611
34576 JB24 1036 JB26 952
34578 HB24 3774 JB26 1449
35575 JB24 1030 JB26 597
35616 JB24 731 JB26 153
35662 JB24 1407 JB26 932
35766 JB24 973 JB26 341
86014 JB24 1060 JB26 463
31110 JN19 1631 JH23 617
35833 ? ? JM13 199
33262 JM19 1273 JM19 151
149797 JM19 3621
31412 JM19 1463 JM20 367
31656 JM19 1502 JM20 365
31662 JM19 1188 JM20 424
31674 JM19 3557 JM20 803
31814 JM19 3538 JM20 794
31834 JM19 1459 JM20 362
31993 JM19 2466 JM20 494
32057 JM19 1759 JM20 421
32082 JM19 2431 JM20 482
32131 JM19 516 JM20 293
32208 JM19 3628 JM20 796
32401 JM19 1561 JM20 422
32659 JM19 3585 JM20 805
32730 JM19 3619 JM20 809
33518 JM19 122F JM20 411
33627 ? ? JM20 485
33730 JM19 2454 JM20 464
33733 JM19 1204 JM20 373
33804 JM19 1429 JM20 732
33868 JM19 1581 JM20 378
33919 JM19 1503 JM20 394
34423 JM19 3209 JM20 119
34901 JM19 2050 JM20 431
35107 ? ? JM20 371
35117 ? ? JM20 489
35349 JM19 1537 JM20 370
35350 JM19 387 JM20 160
35453 JM19 2723 JM20 714
35490 JM19 1531 JM20 377
35567 JM19 525 JM20 207
35611 JM19 2433 JM20 475
35761 JM19 449 JM20 306
35872 JM20 588 JM20 333
35884 JM19 536 JM20 126
35934 ? ? JM20 347
35066 ? ? JM20 415
36124 ? ? JM20 398
36139 ? ? JM20 217
36160 ? ? JM20 350
36237 ? ? JM20 379
86044 JM19 510 JM20 296
13267 HM19 1176 JM21 350
31580 66 4029 JM21 436
31581 JM19 3554 JM21 1016
31694 JM19 2057 JM21 488
32047 JM19 1436 JM21 490
32201 JM19 3625 JM21 1014
32403 JM19 2085 JM21 501
32405 JM19 3574 JM21 1171
32800 HM19 1521 JM21 428
33519 JM19 2441 JM21 523
33543 ? ? JM21 227
33689 JM19 1988 JM21 493
33785 ? 66 4039 JM21 815
33954 JM19 250 JM21 194
34098 JM19 1632 JM21 418
34153 JM19 320 JM21 232
34639 JM19 1791 JM21 625
34801 JM19 2276 JM21 521
34820 JM19 1910 JM21 492
34889 JM19 1565 JM21 421
35022 JM19 627 JM21 148
35084 ? ? JM21 476
35125 ? ? JM21 564
35209 ? ? JM21 952
35622 JM19 2312 JM21 819
35751 JM19 177 JM21 348
35825 JM19 522 JM21 111
35866 JM19 3193 JM21 934
35895 ? ? JM21 244
35926 ? ? JM21 248
35983 ? ? JM21 449
36006 ? ? JM21 470
36009 ? ? JM21 245
36117 ? ? JM21 1178
36125 ? ? JM21 442
36226 ? ? JM21 479
36236 ? ? JM21 1179
31032 JM22 211
31037 JM22 201
31290 JM19 1462 JM22 264
31327 JM19 3204 JM22 415
31545 66 4089 JM22 269
31620 19 1534 JM22 209
31764 JM19 3609 JM22 591
31833 JM19 3641 JM22 590
31882 JM19 1375 JM22 177
31886 JM19 1388 JM22 190
31887 JM19 3513 JM22 557
31936 JM19 1697 JM22 205
31941 JM19 2410 JM22 1419
31995 JM19 2091 JM22 238
31996 JM19 2094 JM22 240
32133 JM19 1782 JM22 203
32162 JM19 3254 JM22 443
32229 JM19 1471 JM22 273
32369 JM19 1465 JM22 267
32399 JM19 3260 JM22 335
32416 JM19 1361 JM22 163
32425 JM19 31448 JM22 250
32709 JM19 1463 JM22 270
33043 JM19 3601 JM22 581
33472 ? ? JM22 244
33494 JH19 1425 JM22 227
33586 JM19 1451 JM22 253
33658 JM19 1417 JM22 219
33709 JM19 2101 JM22 230
33860 JM19 2810 JM22 369
33861 JM19 1453 JM22 255
33876 JM19 1901 JM22 213
33890 JM19 2724 JM22 363
33922 JM19 1452 JM22 284
33949 JM19 14169 JM22 218
33952 JM19 2725 JM22 342
33967 JM19 1422 JM22 224
34022 JM19 1446 JM22 248
34032 JM19 1423 JM22 225
34193 JM19 2100 JM22 237
34199 JM19 1447 JM22 249
34329 JM19 1444 JM22 246
34574 JM19 1415 JM22 217
34586 JM19 2811 JM22 386
34670 JM19 1445 JM22 247
34808 JM19 2069 JM22 212
35024 JM19 2773 JM22 863
35081 ? ? JM22 110
35092 ? ? JM22 558
35097 ? ? JM22 115
35112 ? ? JM22 189
35129 ? ? JM22 171
35138 ? ? JM22 546
35167 ? ? JM22 138
35205 ? ? JM22 188
35215 ? ? JM22 166
35222 ? ? JM22 433
35394 ? ? JM22 185
35399 ? ? JM22 134
35523 JM19 135 JM22 155
35532 JM19 2171 JM22 404
35533 JM19 175 JM22 181
35547 JM19 1643 JM22 192
35549 JM19 2169 JM22 430
35573 JM19 1355 JM22 1579
35590 JM19 2136 JM22 376
35594 KJM19 3871 JM22 266
35610 JM19 1356 JM22 158
35627 JM19 3351 JM22 537
35636 JM19 1246 JM22 148
35686 JM19 1350 JM22 152
35696 JM19 1359 JM22 161
35730 JKM 1381 JM22 185
35784 JM19 ? JM22 130
35809 JM19 1830 JM22 295
35810 JM20 89 JM22 235
35821 JM19 2175 JM22 2258
35824 JM19 1308 JM22 2110
35829 JM19 1349 JM22 1514
35868 JM19 1384 JM22 186
35882 JM19 2064 JM22 440
35888 ? 4084 JM22 195
35898 ? ? JM22 257
35985 ? ? JM22 260
35992 ? ? JM22 108
36004 ? ? JM22 196
36119 ? ? JM22 242
36150 ? ? JM22 199
36151 ? ? JM22 202
36152 ? ? JM22 184
36232 ? ? JM22 275
36248 ? ? JM22 188
36365 ? ? JM22 258
86015 JM19 2183 JM22 251
86016 JM19 1851 JM22 257
86047 JM19 2206 JM22 243
86551 JM19 1424 JM22 226
31075 JM23 593
31126 JM19 204 JM23 341
31465 JM19 950 JM23 366
31540 JM19 1288 JM23 692
31549 JM19 1536 JM23 592
31557 JM19 2046 JM23 768
31599 JM19 1742 JM23 742
31622 JM19 1816 JM23 757
31661 JM19 912 JM23 286
31696 JM19 975 JM23 334
31699 5119 125 JM23 503
31801 JM19 3345 JM23 932
31832 JM19 2049 JM23 774
31873 JM19 2073 JM23 761
31881 JM19 1544 JM23 644
31937 JM19 2058 JM23 201
31938 JM19 1192 JM23 676
32012 JM19 1123 JM23 600
32035 JM19 3127 JM23 926
32080 JM19 1176 JM23 575
32085 JM19 1822 JM23 759
32086 JM19 2054 JM23 755
32090 JM19 2077 JM23 758
32091 JM19 3287 JM23 908
32109 JM19 884 JM23 305
32132 JM19 182 JM23 410
32143 JM19 2062 JM23 769
32252 JM19 1173 JM23 681
32347 JM19 1443 JM23 740
32400 JM19 1048 JM23 399
32402 JM19 1835 JM23 754
32407 JM19 1836 JM23 745
32420 JM19 1783 JM23 751
32474 JM19 289 JM23 214
32501 JM19 1525 JM23 589
32505 JM19 1840 JM23 750
32559 JM19 1132 JM23 418
32561 JM19 1635 JM23 654
32631 JM19 180 JM23 245
32639 JM19 3032 JM23 928
32653 JM19 1501 JM23 648
32683 JM19 3284 JM23 916
32738 JM19 958 JM23 314
32898 JM19 926 JM23 347
33126 JM23 2071 JM23 773
33131 JM19 1802 JM23 723
33282 JM19 963 JM23 371
33570 JM19 1735 JM23 720
33584 ? ? JM23 225
33647 JM19 868 JM23 194
33706 JM19 1708 JM23 425
33719 JM19 208 JM23 287
33721 JM19 997 JM23 430
33817 JM19 234 JM23 137
33829 JM19 845 JM23 178
33830 JM19 698 JM23 112
33847 JM19 731 JM23 205
33898 JM19 749 JM23 114
33945 JM19 817 JM23 197
33955 JM19 779 JM23 150
34001 JM19 1839 JM23 753
34196 JM19 1654 JM23 725
34237 JM19 221 JM23 453
34309 JB19 1449 JM23 251
34328 JM19 710 JM23 107
34542 JM19 1537 JM23 454
34585 JM19 704 JM23 119
34604 JM19 1562 JM23 703
34605 JM19 196 JM23 327
34680 JM19 795 JM23 162
34768 JM19 1763 JM23 719
34780 JM19 2314 JM23 802
34839 JM23 261 JM23 211
34904 JM19 676 JM23 138
35048 ? ? JM23 1099
35050 ? ? JM23 694
35105 ? ? JM23 118
35124 ? ? JM23 811
35142 ? ? JM23 154
35148 ? ? JM23 930
35165 ? ? JM23 229
35172 ? ? JM23 984
35231 ? ? JM23 186
35233 ? ? JM23 720
35324 ? ? JM23 855
35386 JM19 1290 JM23 699
35425 ? X3782 JM23 145
35487 JM19 863 JM23 397
35564 JM19 1255 JM23 5621
35605 JM19 1940 JM23 621
35612 JM19 284 JM23 272
35643 JM19 1477 JM23 5279
35652 JM19 1467 JM23 572
35671 JM19 1794 JM23 744
35675 JM 1707 JM23 680
35703 JM19 1064 JM23 408
35718 JM19 1026 JM23 374
35731 JM19 2426 JM23 842
35734 JM19 718 JM23 131
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35802 JM19 1536 JM23 685
35811 JM19 853 JM23 176
35843 JM19 898 JM23 330
35851 JM19 297 JM23 179
35880 JM19 1529 JM23 602
35889 ? ? JM23 356
35890 ? ? JM23 346
35894 ? ? JM23 254
35925 ? ? JM23 275
35980 ? 66 4089 JM23 242
35984 ? ? JM23 499
35986 ? ? JM23 339
35898 ? ? JM23 988
35998 ? ? JM23 487
36001 ? ? JM23 323
36002 ? ? JM23 370
36051 ? ? JM23 241
36053 ? ? JM23 433
36056 ? ? JM23 320
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36060 ? ? JM23 273
35062 ? ? JM23 319
35065 ? ? JM23 263
35068 ? ? JM23 646
35115 JM19 1620 JM23 649
36123 ? ? JM23 645
36126 ? ? JM23 612
36130 ? ? JM23 605
36135 ? ? JM23 358
36138 ? ? JM23 496
36154 ? ? JM23 259
36155 ? ? JM23 234
36158 JM19 1629 JM23 647
36231 ? ? JM23 800
36238 ? ? JM23 502
36240 ? ? JM23 501
36367 ? ? JM23 799
36368 ? ? JM23 338
86036 JM19 364 JM23 201
86526 JM19 119 JM23 407
34003 JM19 1478 JM23 280
31544 JM24 228 JM24 228
31852 JM24 326 JM24 326
31877 JM24 179 JM24 136
31883 JM24 274 JM24 295
31894 JM24 372 JM24 336
31916 JM24 126 JM24 135
32158 JM24 390 JM24 330
32504 JM24 402 JM24 335
32640 JM21 221 JM24 220
34365 JM24 230 JM24 225
36121 ? ? JM24 111
36221 ? ? JM24 373
86033 JM24 145 JM24 178
86104 JM24 217 JM24 205
35759 JM19 186 JM25 265
33576 ? ? JY13 181
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34251 JB20 4685 KFB23 144
34029 JB20 4727 KJB23 123
35846 JB20 4818 KJB23 272
13321 J 342-768 KJB26 270
35331 ? 66 4089 KJM 4200
13322 KJM19 4073 KJM22 423
31027 KJM19 4130 KJM22 487
31150 JM19 3265 KJM22 139
31245 JM19 132 KJM22 414
31265 JM19 4593 KJM22 404
31353 KJM19 3401 KJM22 134
31406 KJM19 3887 KJM22 256
31536 JM19 3374 KJM22 130
31558 KJM19 3901 KJM22 258
32083 KJM19 3900 KJM22 260
32135 KJM19 3878 KJM22 254
32142 KJM19 4115 KJM22 468
32218 KJM19 3966 KJM22 279
32236 JM19 3673 KJM22 135
32468 KJM19 3920 KJM22 257
32613 KJM19 3881 KJM22 231
32636 KJM19 2905 KJM22 235
33496 KJM19 3533 KJM22 114
33547 KJM19 348 KJM22 111
33638 JM19 3151 KJM22 118
33673 JM19 3542 KJM22 164
33703 JM19 3352 KJM22 110
33718 KJM19 3924 KJM22 362
33849 JM19 3389 KJM22 116
34690 JM19 3301 KJM22 113
35130 ? ? KJM22 210
35277 ? ? KJM22 419
35355 HM19 4154 KJM22 410
35372 HM19 4277 KJM22 417
35420 JM19 4093 KJM22 405
35524 KJM19 4010 KJM22 353
35526 JM19 3090 KJM22 174
35544 JM19 3976 KJM22 328
35545 JM19 2179 KJM22 178
35548 JM19 3329 KJM22 176
35561 JM19 3295 KJM22 173
35601 JM19 5348 KJM22 177
35608 KJM19 3969 KJM22 314
35631 KJM19 3975 KJM22 336
35660 JM19 3158 KJM22 163
35665 KJM19 4112 KJM22 434
35666 KJM19 3941 KJM22 280
35676 KJM19 3919 KJM22 2263
35681 JM19 3292 KJM22 214
35749 KJM19 4006 KJM22 376
35798 KJM19 3852 KJM22 223
35799 KJM19 3638 KJM22 203
35837 KJM19 3995 KJM22 2361
35854 KJM19 6968 KJM22 339
36010 ? ? KJM22 329
35061 ? ? KJM22 264
36110 ? ? KJM22 435
36157 ? ? KJM22 9181
36159 ? ? KJM22 387
36320 ? ? KJM22 283
86002 JM19 3435 KJM22 165
35667 KM20 586 KM 236
31222 KM20 2291 KM20 152
31309 KM20 2030 KM20 646
31538 KM20 2002
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
31538 KM20 2002 KM20 688
31577 KM20 2024 KM20 685
31829 KM20 2081 KM20 827
31861 KM20 848 KM20 684
31885 KM20 2166 KM20 787
31959 KM20 2241 KM20 836
31984 KM20 219 KM20 178
31990 KM20 2019 KM20 689
31994 KM20 226 KM20 166
32217 KM20 2393 KM20 151
32550 KM20 830 KM20 833
33136 KM20 838 KM20 690
33549 KM20 1579 KM20 1785
33594 KM20 2177 KM20 795
33624 KM20 1560 KM20 182
33625 KM20 204 KM20 173
33630 KM20 288 KM20 176
33727 KM20 2292 KM20 131
33942 KM20 212 KM20 179
34813 KM20 1584 KM20 181
34815 KM20 1557 KM20 105
35461 ? ? KM20 237
35531 KM20 2134 KM20 121
35555 KM20 1578 KM20 175
35558 KM20 2303 KM20 144
35621 KM20 297 KM20 172
35623 KM20 2391 KM20 892
35632 KM20 2453 KM20 127
35644 KM20 300 KM20 165
35657 KM20 616 KM20 192
35661 KM20 614 KM20 194
35720 KM20 269 KM20 128
35778 KM20 2358 KM20 133
35848 KM20 2190 KM20 869
35993 ? ? KM20 177
35994 ? ? KM20 135
36153 ? ? KM20 80
36223 ? ? KM20 285
36225 ? ? KM20 282
36229 ? ? KM20 176
36230 ? ? KM20 786
36234 ? ? KM20 106
36323 ? ? KM20 857
149798 KM20 2840 KM20 2824
31217 KM20 732 KM21 249
31241 KM20 4875 KM21 1398
31322 KM20 757 KM21 257
31530 KM20 1987 KM21 746
31551 KM20 1940 KM21 743
31562 KM20 2560 KM21 1083
31563 KM20 2006 KM21 717
31621 20 2017 KM21 713
31840 KM20 1934 KM21 738
31878 KM20 166 KM21 141
31998 KM20 184 KM21 140
32049 KM20 2973 KM21 1237
32072 KM20 2538 KM21 1067
32213 KM20 232 KM21 124
32304 KM20 1569 KM21 1230
32314 KM20 4888 KM21 1391
32536 KM20 1966 KM21 751
32682 KM20 2545 KM21 1078
33356 KM20 864 KM21 729
33613 ? ? KM21 114
33626 KM20 234 KM21 113
33637 KM20 2309 KM21 1004
33680 KM20 2988 KM21 1182
33724 KM20 198 KM21 760
33729 KM20 2477 KM21 1003
33839 KM20 222 KM21 149
33842 KM20 2848 KM21 1191
33843 KM20 2992 KM21 1184
33844 KM20 2917 KM21 1259
33845 KM20 1581 KM21 1173
33911 KM20 2957 KM21 1178
33948 KM20 2928 KM21 2193
33953 KM20 2066 KM21 731
34644 KM20 2008 KM21 723
34956 KM20 2840 KM21 1274
35624 KM21 257 KM21 122
35626 KM20 85 KM21 734
35793 KM20 247 KM21 142
35795 KM20 2409 KM21 1008
35865 KM20 707 KM21 269
35997 ? ? KM21 1034
36003 ? ? KM21 332
36050 ? ? KM21 207
36058 ? ? KM21 787
35067 ? ? KM21 790
36122 ? ? KM21 258
36161 KM20 2014 KM21 793
36164 ? ? KM21 117
36167 ? ? KM21 168
36233 ? ? KM21 796
36334 ? ? KM21 1037
86018 KM20 857 KM21 337
31809 KM20 4756 KM22 135
32073 KM20 4731 KM22 739
32176 KM20 4757 KM22 168
32216 KM20 4756 KM22 125
32444 KM20 4765 KM22 163
33057 KM19 4257 KM22 412
33495 KM20 4732 KM22 167
33946 KM20 4773 KM22 141
34811 ? ? KM22 140
34838 ? ? KM22 144
35706 HM19 1261 KM22 315
35891 ? ? KM22 463
35935 ? ? KM22 474
35987 ? ? KM22 178
31196 KM23 432 KM23 415
31197 KM23 264 KM23 293
31211 KM23 881 KM23 842
31223 KM23 409 KM23 345
31263 KM23 262 KM23 291
31296 KM23 804 KM23 756
31313 KM23 631 KM23 665
31564 KM23 344 KM23 360
31565 KM23 474 KM23 627
31613 KM23 358 KM23 351
31658 KM 2914 KM23 846
31680 KM23 478 KM23 526
31686 KM23 346 KM23 361
31850 KM23 654 KM23 654
31860 KM23 440 KM23 408
31868 KM23 171 KM23 228
31870 KM23 254 KM23 236
31884 KM23 206 KM23 233
31889 KM23 748 KM23 747
31892 KM23 413 KM23 422
31932 KM23 535 KM23 521
32015 KM23 473 KM23 466
32016 KM23 229 KM23 239
32070 KM23 815 KM23 794
32071 KM23 746 KM23 749
32076 KM23 266 KM23 292
32081 KM23 500 KM23 482
32097 KM23 227 KM23 231
32102 WM20 1143 KM23 273
32128 KM23 930 KM23 844
32130 KM23 215 KM23 183
32141 KM23 357 KM23 379
32168 KM23 592 KM23 635
32206 KM23 777 KM23 752
32241 KM23 623 KM23 628
32245 KM23 527 KM23 528
32309 KM23 640 KM23 666
32330 KM23 407 KM23 369
32404 KM23 636 KM23 619
32465 KM23 888 KM23 872
32471 KM23 421 KM23 404
32473 KM23 607 KM23 641
32512 KM23 933 KM23 864
32513 KM23 212 KM23 227
32557 KM23 339 KM23 372
32676 KM23 555 KM23 529
32791 KM23 554 KM23 667
33279 KM23 63 KM23 66
33493 KM23 273 KM23 206
33497 KM23 875 KM23 815
33537 KM23 143 KM23 234
33546 KM23 512 KM23 539
33548 KM23 192 KM23 190
33551 KM20 4703 KM23 898
33552 KM23 143 KM23 181
33601 KM22 276 KM23 295
33612 KM20 4742 KM23 986
33655 KM23 186 KM23 171
33691 KM23 938 KM23 875
33722 KM23 415 KM23 463
33769 KM23 885 KM23 805
33900 KM23 734 KM23 717
33950 KM23 260 KM23 259
34140 KM23 619 KM23 640
34362 KM23 514 KM23 480
34419 KM24 884 KM23 818
34738 KM23 423 KM23 416
34812 ? ? KM23 267
35042 ? ? KM23 494
35070 ? ? KM23 790
35085 ? ? KM23 778
35091 ? ? KM23 514
35098 ? ? KM23 999
35103 ? ? KM23 990
35109 ? ? KM23 981
35151 ? ? KM23 497
35173 ? ? KM23 1012
35354 ? ? KM23 782
35356 KM23 408 KM23 515
35362 ? ? KM23 984
35375 KM23 486 KM23 501
35443 ? ? KM23 991
35522 KM23 552 KM23 576
35554 KM23 194 KM23 184
35557 KM23 223 KM23 194
35583 KM23 691 KM23 583
35586 KM23 268 KM23 300
35588 KM23 336 KM23 337
35618 KM23 489 KM23 530
35625 KM23 813 KM23 758
35640 JM19 2474 KM23 10206
35711 KM23 510 KM23 570
35724 KM23 361 KM23 338
35733 KM23 359 KM23 317
35781 KM23 682 KM23 720
35796 KM23 332 KM23 336
35800 KM23 320 KM23 316
35816 KM23 670 KM23 661
35841 KM23 362 KM23 340
35844 KM23 738 KM23 711
35859 KM25 544 KM23 504
35892 ? ? KM23 728
35927 ? ? KM23 126
35928 ? ? KM23 384
35929 ? ? KM23 244
35930 ? ? KM23 380
35931 ? ? KM23 513
35932 ? ? KM23 354
35933 ? ? KM23 205
35990 ? ? KM23 766
35991 ? ? KM23 792
35996 ? ? KM23 558
35999 ? ? KM23 629
36000 ? ? KM23 626
36007 ? ? KM23 390
36052 ? ? KM23 574
36054 ? ? KM23 223
36055 ? ? KM23 612
36059 ? ? KM23 1057
35063 ? ? KM23 562
36114 ? ? KM23 376
36116 ? ? KM23 512
36131 ? ? KM23 862
36137 ? ? KM23 911
36156 ? ? KM23 214
36163 KM23 341 KM23 374
36165 ? ? KM23 694
36166 ? ? KM23 310
36169 ? ? KM23 537
36222 ? ? KM23 225
36224 ? ? KM23 760
36227 ? ? KM23 546
36241 ? ? KM23 979
86006 KM23 645 KM23 645
86009 KM23 540 KM23 559
86035 KM23 419 KM23 386
86083 KM23 817 KM23 759
86549 KM23 270 KM23 255
13319 KM24 309 KM24 268
31098 KM24 248 KM24 242
31208 KM24 243 KM24 248
31266 KM24 396 KM24 399
31307 KM24 245 KM24 237
31893 KM24 384 KM24 386
31985 KM24 373 KM24 401
31986 KM24 229 KM24 229
35185 ? ? KM24 216
35571 ? ? KM24 295
35064 ? ? KM24 215
36111 ? 259 KM24 253
36112 ? ? KM24 119
36113 ? ? KM24 129
36120 ? ? KM24 404
36128 ? ? KM24 121
36133 ? ? KM24 166
36162 ? ? KM24 1114
36168 ? ? KM24 227
36239 ? ? KM24 400
36325 ? ? KM24 128
36328 ? ? KM24 130
32151 KM20 2011 M21 724
35853 JM19 1351 M22 153
13312 KM23 547 M23 566
13191 WC10 3266 WC12 125
13192 WC10 3207 WC12 183
13194 WC10 3309 WC12 123
13195 WC10 3276 WC12 352
13302 WC10 3200 WC12 135
31082 WC10 3395 WC12 334
31138 WC10 3343 WC12 156
31228 WC10 3410 WC12 335
34019 WC10 3135 WC12 256
34102 WC10 3339 WC12 169
34106 WC10 3168 WC12 241
34141 WC10 3195 WC12 133
34234 WC10 3271 WC12 266
34235 WC10 3253 WC12 241
34270 WC10 3458 WC12 364
34281 ? 3308 WC12 122
34292 WC10 3360 WC12 167
34305 WC10 3345 WC12 275
34326 WC10 3267 WC12 269
34331 WC10 3481 WC12 363
34396 WC10 3538 WC12 287
34449 WC10 3483 WC12 362
34509 WC10 3303 WC12 103
34642 WC10 3840 WC12 388
34645 WC10 3467 WC12 363
34737 WC10 3289 WC12 168
34964 WC10 3381 WC12 277
34981 WC10 3069 WC12 136
86021 WC10 3496 WC12 308
13189 WM20 1430 WM20 281
13190 WM20 2381 WM20 345
13297 WM20 967 WM20 235
13298 WM20 971 WM20 234
13299 WM20 870 WM20 147
31010 WM20 925 WM20 215
31093 WM20 830 WM20 205
31350 WM20 940 WM20 212
32126 WM20 917 WM20 211
35717 WM20 854 WM20 119
35722 WM20 855 WM20 133
35857 WM20 865 WM20 118
35896 ? ? WM20 2052
36132 ? ? WM20 2069
37002 ? ? WM20 12629
86019 WM20 849 WM20 122
31111 WM20 1818 WM21 332
31149 WM20 1447 WM21 334
31247 WM20 1452 WM21 339
31569 WM20 921 WM21 162
31571 WM20 1458 WM21 328
32054 WM20 1409 WM21 330
32467 WM20 1463 WM21 329
32619 WM20 1495 WM21 323
33530 WM20 1459 WM21 320
33622 WM20 922 WM21 149
33755 WM20 1057 WM21 173
33762 WM20 1486 WM21 299
33797 WM20 1069 WM21 195
33816 WM20 955 WM21 157
33831 WM20 904 WM21 152
33862 WM20 1476 WM21 303
33865 WM20 1467 WM21 306
33870 WM20 1108 WM21 176
34600 WM20 1102 WM21 175
34804 WM20 1107 WM21 172
35189 ? ? WM21 167
35192 ? ? WM21 177
35543 WM20 899 WM21 137
35550 WM20 1085 WM21 18
35596 WM20 905 WM21 138
35614 WM20 876 WM21 139
36008 ? ? WM21 333
36127 ? ? WM21 143
13016 WM23 258
13017 WM23 260
13320 WM20 1053 WM23 149
13339 WM20 1053 WM23 166
13342 WM20 1058 WM23 171
13347 WM20 1017 WM23 147
13348 WM20 1055 WM23 158
13349 WM20 1051 WM23 159
13188 WM20 1427 WM23 295
13300 WM20 112 WM23 198
13301 WM20 1018 WM23 169
31050 WM23 274
31225 WM20 1123 WM23 268
31237 WM20 1178 WM23 245
31253 WM20 1121 WM23 179
31547 WM20 1070 WM23 186
31851 WM20 1146 WM23 238
31867 WM20 1001 WM23 153
31876 WM20 1132 WM23 249
31907 WM20 1091 WM23 266
32044 WM20 1172 WM23 253
32056 WM20 1150 WM23 262
32067 WM20 1187 WM23 247
32068 WM20 1065 WM23 191
32069 WM20 1149 WM23 254
32122 WM20 1037 WM23 234
32140 WM20 1140 WM23 246
32146 WM20 1174 WM23 237
32153 WM20 1125 WM23 251
32164 WM20 1141 WM23 256
32167 WM20 1115 WM23 240
32211 WM20 1144 WM23 271
32219 WM20 1026 WM23 180
32348 WM20 1079 WM23 189
32454 WM20 1166 WM23 259
32472 WM20 988 WM23 174
32484 WM20 1151 WM23 261
32549 WM20 1056 WM23 192
32644 WM20 1023 WM23 193
32651 WM20 1165 WM23 264
33082 WM20 1153 WM23 236
33090 WM20 1103 WM23 269
33508 WM20 11212 WM23 233
33509 WM20 1412 WM23 294
33538 WM20 1148 WM23 239
33592 WM20 1148 WM23 228
33905 WM20 1039 WM23 242
33920 WM20 1131 WM23 232
33934 WM20 1448 WM23 292
33988 WM20 1154 WM23 255
35074 ? ? WM23 102
35108 ? ? WM23 163
35164 ? ? WM23 160
35367 WM20 1007 WM23 161
35455 ? ? WM23 130
35456 ? ? WM23 263
35707 WM20 1175 WM23 241
35893 ? ? WM23 145
35897 ? ? WM23 138
35899 ? ? WM23 370
35981 ? ? WM23 155
35982 ? ? WM23 154
36005 ? ? WM23 148
36118 ? ? WM23 142
36134 ? ? WM23 140
36136 ? ? WM23 136
36228 ? ? WM23 167
86119 ? ? WM23 164
1553 WM23 150
33975 JM19 2147 V41073P
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Good heavens Rob - there isn't much in that list to indicate the frame and engine numbers ever tallied.
I had many exchanges by letter with Chilwell in the 1970s and 80s asking them about engine and frame numbers tallying + asking if the census numbers were allocated in sequence and they were always robust in saying I should NOT assume that to be the case.
Would still be very interested to hear if anyone has an M.20 with a KMS engine prefix.
The 1939 Spares List also shows C10s, B21s, B23s, B24s, B25s, B26s, with similar engine and frame numbering issues as those for the M.20 Standard and De-Luxe. It does seem to be a somewhat shambolic system open to all kinds of confusion. Delighted though not to be the person asked to sort it out!!
Keith,
The BSA numbering system was quite messy. In the late thirties the frame prefix started with the first type of the series:
HM19 for the 1937 M Group
JM19 for the 1938 M group
KM20 for the 1939 M group (the model M19 was dropped from the catalogue)
WM20 for the 1940 M group
So HM19 could have a HM19, HM20, HM21, HM22 or HM23 prefixed engine.Engine and frame numbers didn't match but the WD wanted the engine and frame numbers to match so BSA accommodated that. I haven't checked the despatch records against Rob's list but it is quite possible that some bikes match the despatch records
But there were always anomalies. In 1939 the used up a supply of the 1938 engines which were number KJM20 and still had the 8 bolt head.
I have never seen a KMS20 engine though. It is a separate list in the despatch records but it is very short.
The engine and frame numbers clearly show a lot of errors. It frequently occurred that and engine or a frame number was used multiple times.
The despatch records are an interesting read in that respect.
@Rob Miller: respect for digging up all these issues. I can't get myself to type it all into new lists. I once started to put 1939 M20 engine and frame numbers in an excel sheet but I got so bored and frustrated that I abandoned that project.
Regards,
Leon
email (option): leonhop3_at_planet_dot_nl
That's interesting about the 8 bolt head Leon, when the subject of barrel castings came up the other day I noticed the different part numbers for the 1939 M20 standard and delux.
But I thought the 8 bolt head top end engine had to be used with narrow (one less main bearing) bottom end and the narrower "B" type frame?
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
Rob,
Yes indeed and in that case the frames were stamped KJM19(!). So it was just a 1938 in an updated livery.
Regards,
Leon
email (option): leonhop3_at_planet_dot_nl
Thank you Leon, that makes sense.
I don't have a 1938 spares list, what are the part numbers for the M20 M21? barrels please?
Rob
email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk
I have a 1938 M group frame easily identified by the two lug oil tank mounting using 4 bolts. The rear frame has a tube around the oil pump housing rather than the casting to pass the later engine design. The rear frame is also different in regard to the upper tie between the two rear frame legs - the tie bar being just below the saddle. I will have to have a closer look at it.
Hi Keith,
I have a JM19 frame as well. Much more refined than a WD M20 frame. Lugs instead of brazes and like you said the bottom rails end with lugs on both sides. The front down tube ends in a closed plug type lug instead of a ring. Many differences altogether.
@Rob I will look it up in the parts book for 1938.
Regards,
Leon
email (option): leonhop3_at_planet_dot_nl