Chaps, having not started up my M20 for a couple of years I decided it was time to service it and have a ride when times allow. However on opening the tank cap, all the red oxide coating that has always been inside the tank ( I have the bike since 1975 ) has lifted. I am assuming this is the wretched ethanol in the fuel? Anyway, can some kind soul advise a fix for this please? I am assuming that it will have to be cleaning out chemically and re coated with something. Not best pleased from Kent !!! thanks Andrew
email (option): andrew.honychurch@gmail.com
Andrew,
Might be worth looking at POR15, a three stage treatment, which Frost restoration sell. As Ethanol levels increase (I believe we currently have 5% in the UK but 10% is on its way) I don't know how it will react though. Suggest you contact Frost and talk to their technical dept. I been very impressed with POR15 when I've used it.
Good luck!
Mark
If the paint (if that's what it is) has been removed/loosened by the petrol but the tank isn't leaking then I don't see that you really need a tank sealant....
I'd investigate something to completely remove any residual paint, then thoroughly wash the tank through with the taps removed and refit it...Fill up and see what happens..
Of course, if what you had was an old tank liner complete removal and replacement is the only answer....The last one I did I used 'Tapox'...I recall they make a 'remover' as well for old lining material...Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
thanks for the reply Mark. I am aware of the POR15 and will speak with Frost. I think the issue is removing the old paint, I know they used to recommend a product called Marine Clean, but again not sure whether thats a paint remover or not. More investigation required. As my bike was so original , we had it straight out of storage when it had come out of the Army and not used since, I had thought the red oxide inside the tank was a standard coating which others would have and hence may have experienced. If I could work out how to post a photo I will add a shot of the inside of the tank. thx Andrew
email (option): andrew.honychurch@gmail.com
hi Ian, and thanks for the reply. As above, I feel sure the red oxide is just paint. I will get a photo loaded somehow. Reference Ethanol, its certainly dreadful stuff and perhaps one reason for putting a new coating that is E10 resistant inside the tank as I think we all know how corrosive Ethanol is.
I think I had better start by getting the tank off the M20 and see what I can do. I have used caustic soda and spirit of salts in a prescribed process ( NOT TO BE DONE WITHOUT THE INSTRUCTIONS AS THEY GIVE OFF GASES) to remove rust and tarnish. The article detailing how to do that was from a motorcycle magazine. BUT that was for rust and residues not paint. I will try to find the article once more. thanks
email (option): andrew.honychurch@gmail.com
Hi Andrew, just finished cleaning out my C.O. tank which was full of petrol gunge, melted petseal and rust. First I put in a bottle of Daganflys heavy duty petseal remover and left in for four days swilling round regularly. After draining I put in half a gallon of acetone and left that in for a couple of days, swilling round regularly. After draining and allowring to dry some petseal was still in the seams, so I repeated the process. Atfer this it looked much better, but still a lot of rust. I then put in half a gallon of break cleaner and a load of small sharp flints and swilled around for a few days. This did the trick and cleaned the rust scale was gone. Finished off with some phosphoric acid which gave the inside a very clean finish. Now has plenty of WD40 inside until I need to use it. A rather long winded process but well worth it.
Cheers, Mick.
email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk
Thanks Mick. Great intel there. Funnily enough a mate who plays around with bikes, non military, told me this afternoon to use brick cleaner as well, so there must be something in it. As my tank was empty I managed to scrape the dry lose bits of paint off and then put in Henry the hoover who scooped up quite a bit of flaking paint. All in al I have a road path here thanks to you all for responding . I am not so daunted by the exercise now, only concerned as the outside of the tank is all pretty and marked up with div signs etc. I hope I Can do this without destroying the exterior paint. thanks again.
email (option): andrew.honychurch@gmail.com
I have just encountered this problem of paint in my tank too .
The bike was standing a long while before i got it and upon checking the tank there seemed to be small paint particles almost dust like in there , i swilled it out and every thing seemed fine .
A few months later the petrol seemed to be blocked from the fuel taps , i removed the taps and the filter gauze was clogged again with this paint dust .
It is a to do job although unsure of the best way to sort it out once and for all ?
In my experience, I super clean the tank even going as far as blasting that I can reach inside.
Blow it out with compressed air. Thoroughly rinse with water, then an acid etch with muriatic acid.
This will cause a flash rust inside the tank which is what you want. When dry, blow it out again.
And, then again for the hell of it. And, once more for shits & giggles.
After that, a pint or two of phosphoric acid which combines with the iron oxide to make a sturdy coat
of iron phosphide. I figure that is this good enough for the US Navy and offshore oil rigs
it should be good enough for a Beezer tank.
WIKIPEDIA: Phosphoric acid combines with iron oxide (rust) to form iron phosphide, which is inert -
it doesn't corrode any further. The most common product made of phosphoric acid for this purpose is
called Naval Jelly, available at any hardware store. The other common products are toothpaste and cola
drinks. YUP!!!!!
You can pressure test these things with two screw in plugs at the petrol line terminals and a large
stopper modified to fill the fill port and an air compressor, or just your lungs. Then listen for
the hissing. See your local home brew supply for a bung. I kept a kit in my '58 MGA in case the SU pump
decided to quit. A non smoker can muster 5-6 PSI which would fill the carb float bowls. Should be enough
to let you know. Got me home is all I can say! Fill those float bowls boys!
Here in the States, at the hardware stores you can get a product called "OSPHO" which is an awesome
way to prevent rust. Yes, you can paint right over it too. Our hiway departments often use it for
bridges.
email (option): britool51@hotmail.com
There is no rust in the tank , it is just this dam paint dust that is causing the problem
A few months ago i swilled it out ect and all seemed fine but after about 3 months the dust is back clogging the filters in the taps .
I suspect it is the petrol that is causing the problem over time and loosening any remaining paint in the tank .
Has any used the additive you can buy for adding to ethanol petrol ?
Apparently it helps with the problems this causes , opinions welcome
I've been using Frosts Ethomix for years and for what its worth, I never buy fuel for my bikes from a supermarket, always the super unleaded from an independent station (Esso usually) So far no real problems although I've experienced the delamination of Petseal which I've had to deal with. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
Thanks Ron
Is it the additive or the ethenol which causes the delamination or both with the pet seal ?
Definitely the Ethanol. The Ethomix is supposed to neutralize it. Ron
email (option): ronpier@talk21.com
I am with Iain....if the tank is leak free and that is paint only coming off, don't use a sealer....its just a complication. The ethanol is hygroscopic so water biild up is an issue and like Ron, I Use Ethomix and E5 petrol or premium. You can also buy fuel stabilisrer if the bike stands over winter, etc.. Best also to check fuel lines if using a rubber type......most new supplies seem to be sold as ethanol proof.
I was going down the sealing option and the tank is at the m.c shop although not too late to canacl the work
The tank is leak free how ever the paint inside is the main problem and may remain so till all the paint has come off internally
It has been filled with white vinegar and left for a while which has removed some of the loose paint but as far as i can see some still remains in places , with time this may become unstable and cause the problem of blocking the fuel tap filters again
Hi, this is my first post, but I’m lucky enough to know a couple of people on here already.
You need to buy 1 litre of Dichloromethane , it’s a simple hydrocarbon and the base ingredient of most paint strippers. First remove the petrol from your tank, bung up all the threaded holes with blank fittings, then add the Dichloromethane. Slosh it around, leave the tank overnight, slosh it around again and leave the tank overnight in a different position. Repeat until every part of the tank has sat overnight in this solution. There will be no paint left stuck to the sides of the tank, guaranteed.
A very clued up friend initially advised me to use the above chemical to remove old tank sealer from my M20 tank, it turned that to tiny weird crystallised particles, no bother!
It’s about £25 a litre and I suspect is a base ingredient, if not the main ingredient of the stuff the petrol sealer companies charge you double that for!
With regards to ethanol, it’s very acidic and very hydrophilic. The acid eats natural rubber and the attracted water rots your fuel tank. I’m sure you’re all only too familiar with these traits. Problems I’ve encountered from messing with petrol cookers have led me to make a de-Ethanising rig. It’s a simple process and you can enjoy having petrol that smells like it used to!
email (option): timmykins@icloud.com
Where did you obtain the Dichloromethane?...Methylene Chloride also does a similar job and was the active ingredient in many paint strippers. I could get that in more or less unlimited quantities from my last job in Pharmaceutical Engineering but I went and retired, cutting off all those sort of perks....Doh!......Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com
Hi Ian,
I bought it off EBay and it came through the post, seems
odd, what happened to COSHH etc lol!?
MEK, which I think has the chemical you mentioned in it is now banned
I believe?
email (option): timmykins@icloud.com
When the EU banned the active ingredient from paint stripper our government said no as the alternative was going back to burning the paint off and the risks of fire. A good paint stripper is not available in your average DIY stores but is online. I get mine through ebay. I hope this isn't censored.
yes paint stripper seems as not as good as it used to be so Going down the acetone route to try and remove the remaining paint inside , hopefully this should work and then deal with the very light rust which developed from using the white vinegar and swilling method
From advice I’d read on t’internet, I started trying to remove the tank sealer with acetone, I wouldn’t touch it. It probably will remove paint, but if you want the job sorting, so you can put it to bed. Dichloromethane would be the substance I would choose. I’ve also been down the Diet Coke/vinegar rust removal, whilst they do have some merits. Using a sodium carbonate solution (Wilkos sell it) and connecting your tank to a battery charger will completely remove any trace of rust. There are plenty of ‘how to’s’ on YouTube. Or I’m happy to show you pics and help if you email me.
email (option): timmykins@icloud.com
I must admit I had a wry laugh the last time I bought 'Nitromors' paint stripper (some time back)....It's so safe now it's not even a threat to paint..:relaxed: ....
'Evostick' glue (is it still available?) was the same...It didn't even smell the same but the customer service department would not admit the formula had been changed when I rang them...It plainly had been as the glue didn't work as well...
It seems that all effective active ingredients are dangerous as well as all the nice food being fattening!!...:laughing: Ian
email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com