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Classic Insurance Policies

I have just renewed by M20 insurance with Bikesure, it took ages and threw up several odd question.

I had it down as having a sidecar fitted because I did temporally a couple of years ago, I thought I aught to mention that it currently doesn't, the person I was speaking to kept going off to check because she knew nothing about this then came back with the news that I had to get a new MOT and an SVA test each time I took off or put on a sidecar.

Then she said that because the sidecar was no longer on the bike she would remove my pillion cover, I questioned this as the bike has a pillion seat, and she went of and checked and then told me that classis policies don't cover any pillion passengers. I don't know if this meant that a pillion carried would not be able to make a claim on the policy or that carrying a passenger was forbidden by the insurer?

Is there any truth in any of this?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

Individual insurance companies make up their own rules to a certain extent so you won't necessarily get the same attitude regarding pillion passengers from each one...
Some companies do charge more if you say 'Yes' to the question 'Will you be carrying a passenger?...That is a blatant scam to charge you more money for nothing IMO as you don't get asked the same question when insuring a car....

Regarding the fitment of side cars (or not) it's the first time I've ever heard that an outfit requires an SVA test...That could have implications for the Historic Vehicle status I would have thought...Also, potentially, the original Reg. number and tax and MOT exemption...I would certainly seek some clarification from DVLA or similar on that question..

From experience I've found that if you put something a bit unusual in front of the average insurance company employees they run around like headless chickens through lack of knowledge and can frequently come up with the wrong answer (or wrong rules)...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

The policy document sets out what is and isn't covered. Probably more reliable than what some bloke on't interweb sez.

It might be worth contacting an insurer who specialises in classic bikes such as Robin James.

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

I just checked quickly and it seems a self build or 'kit' sidecar (what is that?) does need an SVA test...Further, when a sidecar is fitted an MOT is required...It didn't say anything regarding MOT if you are removing the sidecar. However, it's not clear from what I read whether the any of the latter is true for an MOT exempt vehicle...

This sounds like a right 'can of worms' and as Dean suggests a more formal contact with the right insurance company is probably the answer....Too many bloody rule makers again..:angry: ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

Perhaps insurance is a dangerous thing to discuss, there is always the worry that if you don't ask they may not cover you but if you do ask they will say no or charge you extra.

Maybe the only way insurance can work is if you never say anything?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

There were a lot of complaints in the 1970s when passenger insurance was first made compulsory, mainly from those with single seater machines. There was a change in the law at that time which meant that passengers were considered to be innocent third parties in the event of an accident and could claim against a driver in the same way as any other road user. They used the excuse that a passenger might be carried on a bike without a seat and would still need to be protected.

This seems to have changed again a few years back and it has been possible for insurers to exclude liability to passengers. The pillion casualty rate on race-replicas played a large part in this. Looking at them perched up in the air, I'd say that those bikes were not really constructed for the carriage of passengers but that's another thing.

The recent ill-thought-out changes involving Historic Vehicle Status and exemption from MOTs has brought about a lot of unforseen problems and there is certainly a clause which states that to be eligible, there must have been no major modification during the last thirty years...That would probably include fitting or removing a chair...not that they thought about it at the time...An MOT requirement with a change of taxation class is perhaps not surprising in that context....My feeling is that it's something which should be taken up via the FBHC...perhaps via the MVT.

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

Well I've been taxing my Norton Big 4 outfit every year and there's been no mention of an MOT. Perhaps they're not aware that it's a side car outfit?? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

A factory fitted sidecar is a different set of rules....:grimacing: ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

['This seems to have changed again a few years back and it has been possible for insurers to exclude liability to passengers. The pillion casualty rate on race-replicas played a large part in this..']...

Or to charge extra for taking the liability if they do decide to take it on...Doesn't apply to Porsche and Ferraris though does it?...
As usual what seems at first sight to be a reasonable condition applied by the insurance companies to sports bikes it has now been identified as just another way of gaining extra revenue from everyone on a bike...I was asked if I was going to carry a passenger on my Indian Royal Enfield when I insured it, not exactly sports machine of the year I would suggest...Ian:white_frowning_face:

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

I think I may ask Henk to remove this thread, my problem was only with one insurance companies perspective on one day, I don't want it to turn into an issue for other people.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

It's best to at least identify and perhaps clarify such issues for anyone going down a similar route...What they then choose to do, or not do, is up to them...I think it's a subject well worth raising personally...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

Rob Miller
I think I may ask Henk to remove this thread, my problem was only with one insurance companies perspective on one day, I don't want it to turn into an issue for other people.

Rob
Rob, I agree with Ian here, in that you've raised a very good point that perhaps requires wider consideration, so thanks for this.....

I think we all take insurance for granted much of the time. A necessary "evil" and annual expense for all as a legal requirement, yet there appears to remain considerable variation in particular policies, especially detail within the "small print", and most frustratingly seemingly a wide variation in price. The latter can reflect individual circumstances but is not the only reason for variation.....

In my experience, it's best to study the small print on any insurance policy to see exactly what it covers you for.....or doesn't.......insurance companies are well known for rejecting any claim if it does not meet their stringent policy detail.........and one thing that I've come across regularly in the past is the fact that the onus is always on the driver/rider to provide as much information as accurately as possible when taking out any policy.......additionally, once the policy is running, it is a good idea to notify them of any significant changes that may affect your insurance cover, whether to yourself or the vehicle.........failure to do so may result in your policy being deemed invalid therefore rendering you uninsured.........

I would strongly advocate anyone to check their policy thoroughly.....in particular if you are planning to go to Normandy this year......

On a personal basis, my main irritation with insurance is the fact that it seems to increase in price every single year......understandable maybe had my health worsened or I'd made a claim against the policy, etc, but when nothing my-end has changed (in years) I resent paying more......when challenging the rise, the usual excuse is "insurance costs have risen overall", etc, and a protracted teeth-pulling conversation usually results in the recent increased quote being reduced.......but on the last occasion, having been with the same insurer for years, I finally voted with my feet and went elsewhere for the same price I had paid four years earlier..............

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

I challenged the AA this year on exactly the points you make...After all, that is also only an Insurance policy...I've been with them for 24 years and I suggested I get little in practice for my continued support of their organisation...I also pointed out that I was beginning to feel I could get a better deal elsewhere...

They knocked £50 off the price and also froze the price for next year as well...So it's worth a go. I plan to do the same with my house insurance when it comes up...To me it proves they don't really work out a price on any particular criteria, rather they just see what they can get away with...If it was properly costed they wouldn't be able to knock off £50 would they?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

Don't know how it is structured in the UK but down here anything from 1/3 to 1/2 of the premium you pay is commissions.
Every time you policy passes through a computer that person gets a cut.
I have a riding friend who sells insurance and explained exactly how it works.
It is a strait pyramid scheme so the person who originally wrote you up gets a bonus every time you renew then his supervisor get a cut and the supervisors manager gets a cut then the manager gets a cut then the divisional manager gets a cut then the state manager right up to the CEO.
It is almost identical to the system banks use for loans.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Re: Classic Insurance Policies

I have had the policy emailed to me and it says in large print.

"You have stated in your application that you WILL NOT be taking passengers on your motorcycle or your license does not entitle you to take passengers.

You will therefore NOT be covered by this policy if there is a claim arising from an incident when a passenger is being carried on the insured motorcycle."

Maybe if I had said that I wanted to carry a passenger on the pillion they would have included it for an extra fee and to be honest I don't like having someone on the pillion so it really doesn't effect me, but It may effect some people?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

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