I first got this book around 1983 when I was 14 years old, it's really what stated my interest in this hobby, the pictures for the most part seem to have been taken in 1977 when Titch Allan organised a DR gathering at Stanford Hall at what I assume is the founders day event still running today.

So I'm wondering what became of these machines and their owners nearly 42 years on, are there any forum members who were there and have some more photos to share?




01 Ariel WNG reg LGP 621 owned by Ted Cotton engine number BH6544 serial C934254

02 BSA M20 serial C40086 Vokes filter

03 BSA M20 reg MTV 67F serial C4992320

04 BSA M20 reg MXX 574P

05 BSA B40 Alfa Romeo transfer?

06 BSA B40 Chrome plated exhibited at 1977 Earls Court show by the British Army

07 Gilera 600cc owner Titch Allan

08 Indian 741B

09 Indian 741B owner Tony Twycross

10 Matchless G3L reg GVN 174 serial ?481183

11 Matchless G3L reg YLL 578

12 Matchless G3LS 1960 reg 405 ALD owned by Harry Marsh

13 Matchless G12 650cc twin

14 Norton 16H serial C482831

15 Norton 16H reg CON 854

16 Norton Big4 reg HTO 23 owned by Roger Deadman serial C4312832

17 Royal Enfield C reg HGJ 949 serial 22988037

18 Royal Enfield CO engine number 132550

19 Triumph 3HW reg HKP 444? serial C4070422

20 Triumph 3SW reg DJU 929

21 Triumph 5TW reg NDU 706P owner Harry Woolridge serial 3559 No.2

22 Triumph TRW reg 492 DH

23 Velocette MAF reg HHY 357N owner Jeff Tooze number? MAF1012

24 Velocette MDD GZ 3801 number? 11396

25 Welbike with unusual front mudguard

26 background shot BSA M20 serial 44YB41


I think the only one I know anything about is the Norton Big4, I took this picture of it on Genkel Heath near Arnhem in 1998 when I think it belonged to Joe Cooper or his brother. It was restored again at some point by Dave Bailey and I think its now in the National Motorcycle Museum in Birmingham.

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

The WD/C is now owned by a member of the Royal Enfield Owners Club, and it hasn't changed over all these years. But the WD/CO is not on the Register (for the WD Enfields), no idea where it is now...

Jan

email (option): wd.register(at)gmail.com

I also have a well thumbed copy of 'The First Military Machine Scene'. I also have the January 2006 edition of 'Classic Bike Guide' in which is a four page article on Big 4 HTO 23. At that time it was owned by Andy Tiernan, but a footnote on one of the pages stated that before the article went to press, the outfit was bought by the NMM.

Andy has had another 2 or 3 Big 4's go through his emporium in recent years......I supplied quite a few parts for these, but I've no idea where they went or who owns them. I also supplied parts for the Rex Cadman Big 4 and I think he had dealings with Andy to replace his sidecar that was stolen. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

44YB41 on the last M20 is a bit odd, I thought 05YB61 to 69YB21 were all Matchless's?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

The rider of the Triumph 3HW reg no HKP 444 (photo 19)is Fred Heath,he was from Hampton Magna near Warwick,he died about six years ago,he had two 3HWs and some other pre war Triumphs,he also had a Brough and later BMWs,dont know who had his 3HWs after he died,he was a regular at the founders day rally at Stanford Hall.

How times change...The Barbour jacket ruled supreme and there was barely any Military clothing in evidence...

These older photos illustrate well how the whole scene has changed...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

There was a Ted Cotton memorial road run last year, it seems he had a motorcycle business in Northampton, was he a VMCC founder?

Its interesting that this is a snapshot of our hobby from 42 years ago, at the time 1977 was only 32 years after the war.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Back in 1988, when I got my M20, this was the only bit of information I could find on Military Motorcycles, other than a feature or two in "Classic Bike". With no 'net, your sources of correct restoration information were severely restricted, if they even existed at all. I still have my copy of this book, looked at it many, many times back then.

email (option): m20wc51@yahoo.com

Hello Ron sorry to bother you on this post as I didn't know how to get in touch with you ,I'm Craig Dixon, I was wondering if anyone had heard back from issobelle josset at Etraham campsite?,I initially e-mailed her in the Sumer last year and she replied back asking for names of who were camping, I've sent several emails but still nothing back.
There are 4 of us again this year with Matchless G3L s,we stopped with you on 65th and 70th and hopefully this one we've done the Guinness book runs as well as the run outs, I'm getting quite worried as same as you work flat out and at moment trying to get 3 matchless bike all back together and running , I wasn't sure if John Tingley would know as well as we stopped with him on the 65th , once again sorry to bother you again as I know your a busy man with other stuff as well ,kind regards Craig dixon dixonsofpudsey@btconnect.com
Ps I hope I've got the correct dates for the parade in bayeux were going 3rd to 9th June ,cheers Ron

email (option): dixonsofpudsey@btconnect.com

Any chance we could keep this thread on topic please?

Ron's email address is on the bottom of his post.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi, The chap on the Norton is Roger Deadman, I met him and his Dad on the MVCG Arnhem Tour in 1977. They were driving a 6x6 GMC on that trip and they very kindly used to take my brother and my camping gear every day during the trip. I also have a well thumbed copy of that book. The first BSA WM20 C40086 pictured was belonged to Henry Kisley and he had a sidecar attached on the Arnhem Tour, his friend also had one with sidecar and a trailer if I remember correctly

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

Roger Deadman is still active in the Norton Owners Club and has a number of pre-and post-war Nortons. He sold the Big 4 along with a WD16H back in the early 1990s but I have an idea that he was working on another WD16H.

email (option): welbike@welbi##.net (think about this!)

email (option): welbike@welbi##.net (think about this!)

Regarding number 25, the Welbike, I believe this is the factory sample bike, that was used by Excelsior to show the troops how to ride it, it is now in Holland owned by Hans A. still in it's maroon livery.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi##.net (think about this!)

email (option): jeffharvey490@gmail.com

This is fascinating stuff, keep it coming.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Jeff, yes, simple! and nice! so the previous owner must have been in the services after the war, as those military registration numbers did not come out till 1952 or so.

Your M20, had the following reg. number: 16ZC75, your C number is correct, and the bike was struck off the list on 27-10-1965, before that it served with the Territorial Army, 598 Amb.Syn.Ret. whatever that means?? (info from Key Card 487A)


Cheers,


Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi##.net (think about this!)

The Norton CON 854 hasn't been taxed since 1983 - but it doesn't seem that the number has been sold - It is however listed to a 350cc Norton first registered December 1936 - CON was indeed a Birmingham series issued from December '36 - Could it be that someone was running it with an old paper logbook and when it came to be sold, it had to be re-registered as it was incorrect ? It has some nice early parts on it, but the frame with extra stand lug is 1940 or later.

email (option): jeffharvey490@gmail.com

No probs Jeff, everything is digitalized now, and can be found in my PC with the press of a button.

If you want a scan of the whole card (some people print them out, and frame them) it can be done, email me for pricing and details.

See below sample scan and stack of cards.





Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi##.net (think about this!)

Matchless GVN 174 is my old bike now owned by John Tinley
It was Founders day 1976 or 77. I think one of the first themed days due to titch Allen having been relating some of his DR days in Motorcycle Sport.

What is noticeable nowadays is the laxness of authenticity back then, the sort of amazing detail and research that is availiable here just was not around then here.

As long as it approximated to a WD machine,paint it green that'll do.

GVN174 as it was photographed was knocked up in a month out of whatever fitted out of my stock of Matchless spares; As time went by it got more and more authentic, as that was the era when WD bike riders were regarded as nuts and I was given [yes given all those rare parts] masses of bits, often off genuine bikes being converted to trials bikes.

I loved it, fake as it was, and did many happy miles on it including a trip to Arnhem to try to blag a job on Bridge Too Far; [unsuccessful]

It was a wrench to part with it, but I don't ride what I still have much now.

and in case you are wondering, yes John Tinley got all the true history of it and a bit more.

It also featured in an early issue of Classic Motorcycle, with a lot of inaccurate BS in the article I wrote.

['That, and the fact that it was civilian registered in Nottingham in June 1967, is all I know about its history... Jeff']

Dawson Motors in Nottingham sold a lot of ex WD machines through the 60's and there are many with Nottingham registration numbers...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

email (option): jeffharvey490@gmail.com

Hi Michael,That was a blast from the past ,I have still got the GMC and two wd 16h ,s iv,e allways regretted selling the Big 4 it is the one in the national motorcycle museum

email (option): roger_deadman@yahoo.co.uk

How about the Velocette's, I seem to remember John Turner telling me when he bought one that there were only a couple of his model MAF? in the country?

Pendennis Castle July 2001

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I checked both my MDD and MAF out Rob, but no matches. According to O&M there were about 1400 MDD's and only 947 MAF's before the contract with Velloce was canceled. But I've a feeling that some more MAF were produced....Maybe sent to Russia as I've seen MAF riders handbooks written in Russian. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Roger. Good to hear from you. There was a picture of the Big4 in last months Real Classics magazine in the museum. I rode pillion on my brother Rod's M20 on the Arnhem tour and then had my own M20 finished for the Bastogne tour in Aug 1978 and I think you again carried our camping gear etc which was a great help and made the trip more enjoyable for me and my pal Kieron who rode pillion. I still have my M20 and did the 65th & 70th and hopefully 75th Normandy Anniversary

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

I bought my copy of the book in 1978 or 79 in the BMS shop in Dorking.

The man on the BSA M20 reg MTV 67F serial C4992320 is Keith Chandler.
He was then the VMCC "military machine expert".

I visited him when I was staying with another marvellous character George Yeomans.
A man with tons of metal where I found most of the military stuff I needed for my civilianised WD16H.
With hindsight I should have bought more, but that is life.
George put me up when I asked if there was a campsite nearby Drayton Mill. Being alone he offered me to stay with him.
He lived in Chaddesley Corbet, a hamlet without street lighting. Something I was not used to coming from well lit Holland.
There was a local brewery in the same street with very tasty beer!
When at Drayton Mill I encountered Keith Chandler. Lateron I visited him at his home nearby.
He was the first person to tell me something on military contracts for Nortons.
Unfortunately I lost contact with him and he appears to have extracted himself from the military machine scheme completely.
In that time I also visited Roger Deadman. His father showed me the Big 4 as Roger was away that evening. I contacted Roger many years later in my quest to find information for my Norton WD16H/Big4 website.

Cheers

Rob

email (option): wd16h@telfort.nl

Indeed I was the WD Marque Specialist for the VMCC in the 1970s and attended the Founders Day Rally where Bruce Main Smith took most of the photos that appear in the book featured here. I still have my BSA M.20 MTV 67F and the army C number on the machine was that which came off a Matchless G3L ridden by Gordon Jeal the BSA Marque Specialist for the VMCC and who helped me enormously when I was restoring my M.20 in 1973 / 74.

email (option): keithchandler@clistandchandler.co.uk

found this old post by rob. royal enfield model C reg number HGJ 949, ive been offered that bike, does any one know anything about it?

thanks, barry

email (option): fullerbarry@hotmail.co.uk

The frame number of this bike is 15211, the duplicated frame number is 15289. The same bike was for sale on eBay in January 2021. It was on eBay again last week. Initial price was £6500 if I remember well, this price was lowered at least two times, but I think it still didn't sell at £4900. I've got pictures here of how it looked like in 2021, and it's definitely deteriorated over the last year.

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

yeh the start price was a bit high but yeah it was eventually lowered to 4800, i can get it way less than that and i am veiwing it soon, he originally brought it last year for 5200 but was let down buy his mechanic, thats why the fuel tank is all bare metal. the resr of the bike to me doesnt look in bad condition but it will be restored, either as per 1970s pic or as it should be.
im assume this is a war time machine??

barry

email (option): fullerbarry@hotmail.co.uk

1941 indeed.

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Thanks for this thread ... I now have a copy of the book coming my way . Look forward to reading it and see the photos ... There are plenty of copies available at reasonable prices . Especially if your in the UK and forgo the expense of shipping to the states... Mine is coming from Maryland so no shipping charge... I love this forum :)

email (option): wadeschields@mindspring.com

All of the registration numbers are on the current DVLA data base apart from three...492 DH Triumph TRW,...DJU 929 Triumph 5SW,...NDU 706 P Triumph TRW....I must admit I half expected 492 DH to be on another vehicle as a personal number but it isn't...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I supplied Andy with a spare sidecar chassis some years ago.

email (option): austonchamp@gmail.com

Got my copy. Great photos but I especially enjoyed reading the Dispatch riders Comments section. Real insight into what it was like to be enlisted in the Corp..... And what they thought of the different make of bikes.

email (option): wadeschields@mindspring.com

The Ariel WNG formally owned by Ted Cotton is still in the same paint 45 years on and looking pretty good.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk