I had a good time at Netley Jumble...As usual it was a relaxing and socialable weekend where I met up with quite a few 'regulars' and was able to put another face to a name, as I met Mark Towers from the forum....

I would say there were about the same number of stalls as last year, or even a few more and though the event is currently a shadow of it's former self for now it seems to be stable at that level...Unfortunately, the last day was again spoilt by vendors moving to Beaulieu...

Personally I didn't take a huge amount of stock but did sell much of what I had so in the end it wasn't a bad event for me in that regard...

I picked up my new exhaust pipe for the M20 from Ron and also a 'Daytona' exhaust pipe for my Goldie project...Along with those and some other useful parts and goodies I found I had something to play with as well, so I was happy!....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi, me and the Mrs finally made it to our first netley jumble Saturday.i have to say what a disappointment, okay so thanks to lousy traffic we didn't arrive till 12 instead of 10. We still didn't expect everyone to be already packing or already gone. I think we had finished after an hour! So I think people need warning not to bother going on sat unless you like throwing away £18
Regards steve

email (option): Johnsonsteve386@gmail.com

I don't know how they have the nerve to charge people for the Saturday, it's all over by then. I had a great time there, met up with lots of people and found some very cheap items. Very pleased I found a 1939 WD speedo, just what I wanted, and collected my Norton rack that Jan made.:slightly_smiling_face:

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

The best part for me is meeting up with everyone every year, but it's all over by Friday evening when most have disappeared to beaulieu.

Best purchases for me was an original Norton 8" blackout mask for my Big4, the lovely Miller tail lamp that Roy made and being able to buy a nice M20 mudguard off Leon to swap with Steve S for the Triumph field stand he has.:grin: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I agree that anyone coming to Netley on Saturday is wasting their money...

To my mind its a short sighted attitude by traders that they can do one day at the event and then up stumps and go to Beaulieu...That is the cause of the failure of the second day and in my opinion, is the single biggest contributor to its demise. It is actually in any traders interest in the longer term that the event thrives, not withers away...

Mortons refusal (up to this point) to move the event further from the Beaulieu date enables this situation to continue...

Mortons and others seem transfixed by the idea that no one will come if it's not on the same weekend as Beaulieu..This is clearly not true as all other jumbles are self standing events that succeed or fail purely on the basis of what they have to offer....
Further, by taking this stance, the first day then falls on a weekday when many people can't or won't use their annual leave to attend a jumble. This automatically rules out a certain number of potential visitors...

I attend a number of jumbles that are only a month or two apart...The idea that I won't do one because there's another a month or two away is ridiculous...I well appreciate that for foreign visitors this may not be possible, but again, looking to the future, if Netley Marsh finally ends and only Beaulieu is there to visit the end result will be the same as separating the events...But there will then only be one...

I have always felt as a trader that having signed up for an event there should be some determination to support it...An old fashioned view it appears...I've attended every Netley from the outset as a trader and frankly, will be sad if it fails as it is one of my favourites...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Personally if Netley moved a week or two from Beaulieu I would only do Beaulieu, if it was a month away I may do both, I'm not sure, its a 200+ mile round trip for me.

Beaulieu was as big and as good as ever this year, I can't comment on Netley other than what I have been told by a few dealers I spoke to who did both and they said they did well at Netley but they still moved to Beaulieu on Saturday.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

['Beaulieu was as big and as good as ever this year']...

How much motorcycle content was there?...I know you have a wider interest than just bike parts, which I imagine has an effect on your point of view...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I've been to every Netley event since it started, bar one and this last one.After last years feeble event I decided it was an expensive way to buy a few odds and ends.

The problem is Mortons,everything they touch goes sour. Greedy for profit.

The bike-jumble scene in easy reach of the West country seems to me to be dying the death now that Shepton has gone.

Kempton I find to be a dead loss, a miserable cold, windswept location more akin to a non bike sale, the junk on sale last time I went was incredible.

A pal who went to Founders day and Banbury this year reported those to be pretty poor and generally overpriced items.

Beaulieu is just to big for one day and a gammy knee, plus high bike content variable and uncertain for the admission price.

Where else is there? What am I missing?

('A pal who went to Founders day and Banbury this year reported those to be pretty poor and generally overpriced items.'}

I went to Banbury and Founders day last year and Founders Day this year...I would have said quite the opposite about Founders Day in particular, which I thought was a good jumble. My only real criticism of that event was that you needed to take out a mortgage for the overpriced food and drinks! ...£6.50 for an egg and bacon roll for example)....

Issues over the available dates for the Shepton venue may be resolved by next year...I certainly hope so as this was growing nicely into one of the better jumbles..and as you say, reasonably close to many people from the West of England...

I can't understand how that can be....it's not on the same weekend as Beaulieu..:laughing: :laughing: ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

OK, I was at both jumbles, and bought lots of bike stuff on both! It will get worse next year, as Beaulieu is open now on Thursday aswell for traders setting up. Might be the final nail in the Netley coffin!!?? We'll see I guess, Netley a week before or after Beaulieu will do for me, but Ron P might not like it😎😂

email (option): welbike@welbiXX.net ( Think about this please)

I would suggest that Beaulieu on Thursday and Friday, prior to opening to the public would see disquiet amongst the paying public who are well aware of the inter-trade cherry picking that goes on.?

"Premium tickets" @£75? leaves a sour taste that.


Its bad enough queuing early at the likes of Netley to see a stream of people coming out carrying choice bits before its even open.

Incidentally, a public footpath seems to run through the Netley site, I'm wondering what the legality of charging entry to a field with a right of way is?

Good news about Shepton though, an old fashioned and largely enjoyable event.

As for the price of the grub, take your own!!

On reflection I suppose ones view of a event depend on what you searching for, if its loads of repro parts, nuts and bolts and general ironmongery then it'll be ok.

I look for vintage/early pre-war civvy bike stuff which is thin on the ground even at the two Midlands events.Sod all of any note at Netley the last 5 years

I bought some very nice BSA M20 parts at Beaulieu this year, of course they came from John so I suppose no one seemed to want them at Netley on Friday.

This discussion won't make any difference, Morton's will do what ever they can to earn money, and Beaulieu will carry on cashing in on probably their best weekend of the year, its up to us all to decide what part we take.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I was at Netley on Friday and thought that although down on stalls from it's heyday it was still good and worth going. Didn't do Banbury (organising an REOC Rally) but Founders Day was as good as ever. We can't all go to all the jumbles so pooling knowledge about which events are worth attending is very helpful. However, I don't think 'a friend said' constitutes good feedback, there will always be someone who's appreciation of an event rests solely on whether they found a particular item or some other singular criteria! (Likewise food, these events have always been legendary for poor expensive grub, we all know that so take your own.) Kempton is consistently good in my opinion but most of the Kempton calendar falls in the colder months and it is a south facing racecourse (effectively an open field) so it's bound to suffer if the weather isn't good, hardly an objection to the quality of jumble! So to my question: I've never been to Beaulieu but friends of mine who do go say the sheer size and dominance of car items make it hard work, is this the experience of those who have been?
REgards, Mark

Yes the size of Beaulieu and dominance of car parts does make it hard work, but it also means that no one can find all the bargains on the first day and if you put in the hours and can stay focused there is something for everyone right to the end.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I couldn't take food to Founders Day as I was staying with someone prior to the event and it didn't get organised....Normally I always take my own. However, the comment about the prices is valid and may help someone who hasn't been before...Not everyone has...

I think Mortons realise (finally) that the Netley event is in trouble...They came round canvassing opinion amongst the traders and seemed happy to spend a fair time with me whilst I expressed my views/suggestions...

The mere fact they are asking peoples opinions is a first...Hopefully it might lead to a realistic survival strategy...Time will tell...

Personally I don't fully share the anti Mortons sentiment...Granted, they aren't perfect by any means but they have taken on a number of shows which, frankly, would probably have ended earlier if they hadn't put the money up and taken them on...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Fairly slim pickings for me at Netley and Beaulieu. To be honest, I didn't 'need' anything but there was an almost complete lack of Norton NOS for preventative maintenance. I was at Netley on Friday but there were already traders who had left for Beaulieu - presumably their Netley trip was intended more for stock-buying than for selling ? It is also clearer than ever at Beaulieu that quite a number go in as traders and have bugger-all on their stands and no interest in letting the public browse...once again, I suspect that their main reason for being there is to buy for themselves or for re-sale on eBay.

It's not all the fault of eBay. One of 'our' group had a CZ27 stolen from his stand at Netely and another trader told me a few years ago that he doesn't bring small high-value stuff anymore as too much gets stolen.

I do enjoy my four days away though and we were blessed with perfect weather this year. They're both part of the social calendar with events and plans for the next year being discussed and plenty of time for a leisurely beer or two...although with Beaulieu's £5 per pint prices, it's not a cheap weekend. Decent ale though.

I'm not sure that things are all going swimmingly for Beaulieu. It seemed to me that there were a lot of empty plots and Sunday felt quiet. I think we have to accept that supplies of pre-war / wartime parts are drying up and those that have them are not selling. There is still a huge market for the 'man-cave' stuff...Sales of enamel advertising signs, pump globes and 2 gallon cans at high prices seem to be booming. If viewed as a huge open-air museum then Beaulieu is good value and for me it is a useful crossover between the motorcycle and military vehicle hobbies.

I don't think that I would be able to do both if they were not close together but I'm not sure what the answer is. Certainly the trend towards allowing the dealers a whole day to buy from each other and mark-up before the public arrives is not in the long term going to encourage the public to spend. It's bad enough when they only have an hour or two on a dark winter's morning. It is quite clear that the day before both these events has become a 'traders and their mates' buying day.

Most of the stuff that I bought was from people that I know....maybe 'we' have cornered the market...?



The two WD marked (but post-war dated) 6v 24/24w bulbs were from a Dutch seller which meant that haggling was like getting blood out of a stone ! I have enough stock to be getting on with now...the same goes for detachable KLG M80s. This one is post-war though. Late 1950s / early 1960s, I suspect and no longer marked as 'Corundite'. The MCR1 is an early-war 'Lead-Acid' marked item with the Norton clamp system. It needs some work though.

('It is quite clear that the day before both these events has become a 'traders and their mates' buying day.')

As usual a fairly negative view of traders...The secrets in the name 'traders'...they trade...

It's not uncommon for me to be offered certain items in which I have specialised by other traders who don't get asked for that sort of thing so much or are unsure of the market for it...For them it's easier to move it on to the appropriate person...Also it's an opportunity for them to 'turn over' their investment more quickly, which is the aim of all traders...

For example, I bought about 15 NOS M20 speedo drives from a trader that way a number of years back and they were all resold to end users...It cost me a fair bit of money to buy them all, which I had to 'carry' until they were sold and I happily made a profit on them...At the risk of getting personal, which I won't, I could name plenty of people who aren't traders but who have done their share of buying and selling for profit, arguably at a true traders expense...In fact I am now in that category myself as I have retired but continue to dispose of my accumulated stock...

All this stuff goes round and round and most times it moves, either privately or via a trader, a profit is made...

This has nothing to do with the prospects of any particular event and takes place at all of them, in between jumbles and between just about everyone who is interested in it, trader or privateer...And don't forget a 'trader' is buying and selling in the same market as a 'punter' as far as prices are concerned...It's not all discounted when you buy it...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

So there is a niche somewhere for a competently run two day bikes only event in the south then?

One without pre-admission, at a fair entry price,[£10 is too much], a fair stall price to encourage the small shed clear-out types, and open long hours say 9.30-7.00 to let folk get round a few times in a leisurely manner. No tat stalls either, some of the non bike tat offered at Netly last year was ridiculous.

Who will start that then?

I won't ask Mortons.

Step up Ken, anyone can do it...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

No thanks Ian, at 71 well past my sell by date for that sort of thing.

Morton's have sent me a feedback form presumably because I have had a stall in the past, but which box to tick?

Q1 When would be your preferred trading at the show?

Thursday & Friday
Friday
Saturday & Sunday
An alternate weekend

Q2 What do you think we could do to improve the event?

Q3 What other attractions would you like to see at the event?

You have to admit they are trying.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I got that as well...I selected one from the first question and sent them detailed answers to the others, making what I consider to be constructive suggestions...

It will be interesting so see what transpires as it seems Mortons do understand some form of change is needed...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Fundamentally, they've got to find the secret of eternal youth as the dealers with knowledge and stock are simply fading away and their place is not being taken.

It looked busy as hell on Saturday morning - queues down to the road a quarter of an hour before opening time. I don't think the problem is a lack of punters, more a lack of traders with decent stock.

One thing I'd like to see is someone break the taboo of letting the hoi-poloi view the auction stuff...what is that nonsense of 'admittance by catalogue' ? We've all paid £10 just to get into the 'showground'. If you're going to buy a bike then the extra cost may not be much but having to pay extra just to see if there is a lot with a WD16H Spare Parts List isn't really realistic.

So typical of Mortons to ask just the Traders and not the punters, the income from who at £10 each must far exceed the stall rents?

I say, dump the pretentious auction, Beaulieu attracts more cash for that sort of thing and there are enough optimistically priced bikes scattered around the field.
Or at least scrap the catalogue price, who does that go to? Auctioneer?

It'd be easy enough to set aside a secure area in which to display bikes for sale.

Then I suggest far more entry booths to get people in much quicker, and less over-officious stewards.

finally, top entry for punters at £5, after all, paying to spend money is illogical.

I wonder what the final take at the gate is?

As Mortons have the traders contact details and they are also at their stalls during the event it is reasonably straight forward to canvas their opinions...Not so with 'Punters' who on the day, I imagine, just want to get around the jumble and not answer questions or fill out and return questionaires...Logistically that would also be a difficult exercise...

£10 is an entirely reasonable entry fee I would have thought by modern standards..It compares favourably with many other events I could name (including Beaulieu). Mortons do have to generate revenue from the event and cover the substantial overheads of hiring the venue, paying staff, advertising etc. etc....It's a business after all...

What with criticisms of Mortons, the Auctioneers and of the dealer trading in some posts the usual undercurrent of resentment at anyone making a profit is evident...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

As a Trader myself, it does actually bug me that a lot of deals ae done before Joe Public gets a chance. I've done Netley once, and did OK. But I'm not sure I'd do it again, unless they move the date a bit. It's a fair old haul from Kent, and I'd prefer a full 3 days trading with real customers, than having to see my stuff disappearing to Beulieu, where the bloke who just walked away smiling, after negotiating a decent price, just ramps the price up and resells it.

As for "Earlbird entry" to these events, well, they just do my nut in. You're trying to set up, and at the same time, people are rooting through your boxes of stuff. I frequently watch as some old boy clearing out his garage, is almost totally cleaned out of treasure, by resellers or other traders.

I'm booked into the next Kempton, and I'll ask Andy from Mortons about their plans. It would be an idea for them to open a Facebook page, and canvass opinions on it.

I agree with your sentiments regarding 'early bird' entry...I would further say that people who take advantage of that are trying to do what they profess to dislike the traders doing, namely to 'get a drop' on the rest of the punters who can't get there early...

It's worthy of note though, that people travelling a long way to the event, or from abroad, are always likely to be on site the day before the event and there's not much that can be done about that...

As a matter of interest, what do you mean when you say 'move the date a bit'?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

As an ex-trader of quite a few years both in a shop with all its overheads, and a regular jumbler in those days I have no objection to anyone making a profit.
At times I even made one or two for myself.

Overheads for anyone trying to run a small business especially in London are a killer, an enormous burden on a one man band.
However I never actually charged anyone to enter my shop.

One of the final nails in my personal business coffin was the cost of advertising which Mortons monopoly of the bike press vastly increased, add VAT on top it was just not worth it.
I don't share your sympathy for Mortons aggressive marketing and monopolisng and I hope its come back to bite them on the arse.

£10 quid is far to much to pay to look at last years cherry picked junk again. If they have a lot of overheads, they'll have to do what the HMRC told me, cut them back or out.

I have no objection to profit either...but dislike the feeling of being taken for a mug. To be honest, in the context of the cost of coming from abroad, the £10 entry is neither here nor there to me.

I fully understand Duncan's feeling about having stuff rifled through whilst setting up. It's always been my impression that the dealers don't like it and it's not something that I'm comfortable doing. It is an invitation to the light-fingered too.

My reason for taking the early entry at Kempton, coming from abroad is mainly to avoid the queuing and to have a cup of char and a wad with Ron :grinning:

I'm not sure that much of what was bought at Netley went on to stands at Beaulieu. There really wasn't much bike stuff there and I don't think prices are higher...Maybe both suffer from 'traders' who are actually using their early entrance to stock up for eBay or their personal projects ? I have to say that many of the stalls were distinctly lacklustre. It's not that everything has to be sorted by part number but there were a lot of couldn't-care-less traders at both locations with boxes of orange-rusty parts that clearly swim in a tin box in a leaky shed in-between jumbles.

The dates aspect is difficult. As a foreign visitor, I couldn't really do both if they were a week apart....and I have no wish to see the same traders at two locations but I have no idea how to prevent it.

Although it's impossible to predict what will turn up, the Netley / Beaulieu weekend is inferior to a Saturday morning Kempton in terms of new supplies - no chain dealers, no speedo restorers, no magneto specialists....very few service providers at all.

By "Move the date a bit", I merely meant a week or two, to seperate from Beulieu. Although the jumble season is quite hectic, I don't get that much time at home to actually work on my flippin' bikes! Although I'm not really doing it "full time" at the mo',I do hope to do more as part of my semi-retirement plan. Hopefully offering things like "on-site" magneto re-magnetising (at the jumble),gearbox rebuild services (which aren't rocket science, but some people are quite nervous about doing it themselves) and a few other ideas. If I do that, I can't see much drama from early-birders etc. Nor can I see issues with date clashes with other events being a huge drama.

Just quickly, on the subject of Kempton. As a trader, I'm not allowed to pack up and move my vehicle until 3 o'clock in the afternoon. In reality, there are vans leaving at about 2:30. This is because there is apparently an "Issue with safety", with vehicles driving around while the visitors are still about. OK,I can buy that. But..if that's the case then why do they let the public in at 7 in the morning, at the same time they start letting the vans in?

That's because they found enough punters to pay for their early entry tickets at an inflated price. Greed again.

I found Kempton to be by far the worst offender for allowing stalls selling non-bike junk in. More like Blackbushe Sunday market than anything else last time I went.

You are wrong there Duncan! I've been to nearly every Kempton Jumble over the last 20 Years and although originally Eric Patterson would let us in at Sparrows Fart, he changed it to around 8.15 because traders where complaining. Morton's have carried on the same early bird deal and lately the queue at 8am is very long.

Funnily enough, one BSA dealer would stand there with his stall covered and arms folded, refusing to open up until the official opening time of 9.30 or what ever it is. But times are hard and I notice that he's now happy to sell to anyone at anytime.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com