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Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

The Chilwell Vocabulary Of Army Ordnance Stores (VAOS) Master spares list LV6-MT8 Jan 1946 lists several M01 magnetos.

M01/4/L/O
M01/4/AC20
M01/6/AC20
M01/4/AQ4
M01/6/AG4
M01/6/L/O
M01/6/LI-O
M01/6/H3

From spares lists and proprietary spare parts list I have the following

M01/4/AC20 Anti-Clock, LH Pickup Various BSA M20 Contracts
M01/4/AG4 Clockwise, RH Pickup, RH Control, Norton Big4 Contract C7576

I'm not sure what the difference was between M01/4 and M01/6?

Can anyone fill in any others, Ariel, RE ect

 photo mag plates_zpsygvtfyr5.jpg

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Rob I think some of these numbers are like Amal numbers and must mean something to someone.

A flick through some parts lists (Ariel, RE, Triumph) indicates that a fairly standard set up was used depending on what contract or model they all seem to use either the MO1/4 or MO1/6 anti clock with L/H pick up. Some parts lists only quote the MO part number instead of Lucas. As far as I know only RE adopted the more sensible slack wire advance system.....One Ariel W/NG list quotes MO1/4H3.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Hi Rob,

This is the Royal Enfield magdyno (WD/C and WD/CO):

 photo Schermafbeelding 2016-10-04 om 21.32.30.png

Part number 465102, designation M01/4/LI/O.

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Hello,
RE 248cc WD/D partlist say:
MO1/4,L1/0 and there is a second line for magdyno type: MO1/4,AQ/4
need to look at my magdynos in the shed if i've got some others...
Arnaud

email (option): leger-arnaud@wanadoo.fr

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

That's strange Arnaud. I looked in my WD/D parts list and couldn't even see a magdyno listed. Will have to check if I have pages missing

I have an incomplete WD/D engine with inspectors stamp if you need one?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

In the case of the Norton the 1946 VAOS list doesn't mention a M01/4/AG4 as shown in my wartime spares list, only an M01/6/AG4 so is it possible Norton changed its Magneto late in the war or just after?

The spares list don't appear to give part numbers for bodies or CB housings so it doesn't indicate whether this was a change from tight wire advance to slack wire.

Here are a few differences by part number M01/4/AG4 first then M01/6/AG4

Armature/Condensor
460132 464140 Condensor Assembly, “Paper type” added with M01/6
164334 --------- Washer Linen
--------- 455634 Washer, .045” thick, bearing packing

Drive End Details
M174/4 450066 Nipple, “New type round head, for securing Dynamo" added M01/6

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I've sent you copies of the magdyno pages in the WD/D, WD/C, WD/CO, WD/G and WD/L parts lists Rob. Lots of numbers to sort out...

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Ron,
no it's "normal" maybe you've got the C 7374/5/1 or the C 7945/10/1 from May 1940,
but in April 1941 there is a part list for these 2 contract condensed in one book!!!
and they ad the carburetor and the electrical system...

 photo wdd1_zps80kosuml.jpg

 photo wdd2_zpstkzj3oy7.jpg

the other pages are in photobucket..
find nothing about magdynos on the WD/G or WD/L part list or hints and tips books....

email (option): leger-arnaud@wanadoo.fr

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Come on, where are the other marque specialists? Research like this needs your support!

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I'm pretty sure that the suffix is simply an apdate code. In the WD16H literature, I have the following :-

C9681 (1937) - M01/1 AG.4 - 463831
C5109 (1939) - M01/2 AG.4 - 463960
C5612 (1940) - M01/2 AG.4 - ---"--
C6127 (1940) - M01/4 AG.4 - 465110

I have a photograph of an M01/6 plate on a 'post-war' style body but of course these things can be changed and I am not always sure that the LV7 lists weren't updated to include the latest spec - 1940 seems early for an M01/4 to me, based on tags that I've seen. I have copies on file as follows :-

M01/2 ??? 463952 11/(3)9 (Aluminium)
M01/2 AG4 463960 11/(3)9 (Aluminium)- Norton 16H
M01/2 H3 463963 11/(3)9 (Aluminium)- Ariel
M01/4 AG20 465109 4/41 (Brass)
M01/4 L1 465102 11/41 (Brass)
M01/4 AG4 460128 11/42 (Brass)
M01/6 H3 6013F 5/48 (Aluminium)

Not a truly representative selection but perhaps some clues there. Unfortunately, the post-war Lucas master list only includes civilian models so the LV7 lists are our only real source.

Anyone got any more....I might start on MCR1 codes next.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Also Ariel WNG:
contract S.6287 ( issued march 1945) MO1/6,H3/0
contract C13871 ( issued November42 reprint feb 1944) MO1/4,H3

Arnaud

email (option): leger-arnaud@wanadoo.fr

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Awesome, lots of numbers for everyone to crunch

Rik, is it possible the "AG20" in your last batch is actually "AC20"?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Rob, Yes, it is. I've even catalogued it as AC20 but then mis-typed and failed to proof read

Is it WM20 ?

I see that you have a brass plate dated 8/40 - That must be about the earliest.

I keep coming across 11/9 dated plates. They either produced a lot of magdynos in November 1939 or stamped far too many plates up !

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

This is what it looks like so far, please correct me if I'm wrong.

AC20 = BSA
AG4 = Norton
L = Royal Enfield
LI = Royal Enfield
AQ4 = Royal Enfield
H3 = Ariel
? = Triumph

Matchless and Velocette didn't use the M01 but what about Triumph

Norton magnetos run clockwise and there doesn't appear to be a specific number or letter to denote this, did any other military motorcycles run clockwise magnetos?

Norton Magnetos have the pickup on the side nearest the engine, BSA on the side furthest away, how about other makes?

It appears that changes were made later in the war which meant a change from M01/4 to M01/6, it may have been a minor alteration like a different type of Condenser or a change from tight wire to slack wire? and I have to wonder why there isn't an M01/5?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

It appears according to some paperwork sent to by Jan that H3 was used by Royal Enfield as well as Ariel.

I assume that putting the date on the Magneto was more to do with a specific period guarantee, so if Lucas were supplying magnetos for a large contract that took months or even years to complete then their could be a wide variety of dates used, its also possible that electrical equipment could be delivered to a factory and kept in store for a period before being fitted to a machine and delivered to the War Office?

Then there is the question of spare magnetos, is it possible that the plates differed from those fitted in the factories?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

There are also the base details to consider...Pegs (4)..BSA...Tapped holes (4)..Norton, tapped holes (3) Ariel.. and I've also seen bases with 5 tapped holes that could do both of the latter two makes..

Triumph used the MO1 as well...I think from memory they had the 4 pegs like a BSA but I might be wrong on that...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

That's a good point Ian, the dowels in the BSA magnetos appear to be fixed, but judging by these some Royal Enfields had removable dowels in a Norton style threaded base.

 photo Image71.jpg

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Jan
Hi Rob,

This is the Royal Enfield magdyno (WD/C and WD/CO):

 photo Schermafbeelding 2016-10-04 om 21.32.30.png

Part number 465102, designation M01/4/LI/O.

Jan


Oops, this would have been too easy... Have just checked all the parts lists that I have, this is the result:

WD/C C/5107: Mo1-2 L1 463952
WD/C C/5654: ?
WD/C C/6125: ?
WD/C C/7182: 463952
WD/C C/7890: 463952
WD/C C/8136: 463952
WD/C C/11463: 463952
WD/C C/7945: 463952
WD/C C/8732: Mo1-4 H3 465112
WD/C C/12429: Mo1-4 H3 465112

WD/D C/7374: Mo1/4 L1/0 465102
WD/D C/7945: Mo1/4 AQ/4 465115

WD/G C/7945: Mo1/4 L1/0 465102
WD/L C/7374: Mo1/4 L1/0 465102

WD/CO C/11081: Mo1/4 L1 465102
WD/CO C/13869: Mo1/4 L1 465102
WD/CO C/13870: Mo1/4 L1 465102
WD/CO C/14219: Mo1/4 L1 465102
WD/CO C/12425: Mo1/4 L1 46010
WD/CO S/1546: Mo1/4 L1 46010
WD/CO S/3357: ?

1946 Model C: Mo1/6 L1/0 46010B
1946 Model CO: Mo1/6 L1/0 46010B

On all these Royal Enfield magdynos, the spark plug cable comes out on the right hand side of the mag and the advance cable sits at the left hand side of the contact breaker assembly (both when looking from the left hand side of the bike).

Hope this helps you a bit further Rob!

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Ron has gone very quiet. I wonder if he is slowly going round his garage with a pencil and paper...and an increasingly despondent look on his face

We'll never know, Jan, as we're banned !

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I'm still here Rik and getting more baffled by the numbers. You and Jan are more than welcome to visit. Of course you will have to wear Ku Klux Klan hats backwards!!
The only one of my Enfield's that has a wrong type mag is my WD/C! But I already have one prepared and ready to fit.
 photo G 1881_zpsy0syktk3.jpg
I can only photograph My CO and G as the others D.C. and L are hidden by the carbs.
Of course the DC (Experimental Lightweight) is a totally different kettle of fish with a Miller 'Dynomag'
 photo G 1877_zpso8bavicj.jpg
 photo G 1879_zpsiryben0z.jpg

But I've also been looking at Triumph lists. Starting with the 1939 list for all singles models (about eight) is MO1/2 LO anti.
The military 5SW is also MO1/2 LO anti
Nothing listed in my 3SW list but since it shares nearly everything with the 5SW and 1939 models, I'll assume the same mag. But the WS manual states magdyno as MO17 type L541 ??
The 3HW lists (early and late) quote MT/LU/46009.

Maybe you can make something of these Triumph numbers?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Hi Ron

LU/46009 is an M01/6/L/O

Is the cam different in a tight or loose wire or clockwise anticlockwise mag, I'm thinking the cut out for the advance retard cable would be on the other side?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Yes Rob. If you look at this cam block from say an M20. it has a small 'L' on the cam plate for Left hand (anti clock) rotation from the drive end. The slot for the tight wire cable is on the right of the cam.

A Royal Enfield mag will have the same cam but with the cable slot on the left for slack wire advance.
These cams will close the points at around 6 0'clock and reopen at around 10 o'clock

A Norton cam with clockwise rotation will have an 'R' stamped into it and the points will open and close on the opposite side of the clock.

Hence some of the host of numbers. It's a bit like Amal carbs! As long as you have a correct body with the right bits, any configuration of mag can be built, despite what number is on the body. But unlike a carb, you can at least change the plate with the numbers on. Ron

 photo G 1885_zpsqsgskaax.jpg

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Jan

WD/CO C/12425: Mo1/4 L1 46010
WD/CO S/1546: Mo1/4 L1 46010
WD/CO S/3357: ?

1946 Model C: Mo1/6 L1/0 46010B
1946 Model CO: Mo1/6 L1/0 46010B

Jan


Jan the plate I've shown in the first post says

M01/4 L1 46010B 10 43 could this be your missing one for contract S/3357?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

This would sound quite logical Rob, but I don't think you're right though... The S/3357 contract was built from June 1945 onwards. The date 10 43 seems far too early for this contract...

But I agree that M01/4 L1 46010B looks like a Royal Enfield mag number. Question is: which model / contract? Another thing that we have to consider is the fact that Lucas may have changed the mag specification somewhere halfway a contract. Could this have been the case here?

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Fair enough Jan I read the dates for contract S3357 as 21/5/43 and 1944/5 DL in O&M but presumably that's a contract or order date?

But its interesting that the suffix "B" on the end of 46010 predates the change from M01/4 to M01/6.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

These production dates come from the factory ledgers Rob, so they're definitely correct.

By the way, I have now come to the conclusion that the copper plate on my WD/CO mag (M01/4 AG.4 - 465110 dated 4 41) comes from a C6127 Norton 16H. Is anybody interested in a swap for a Royal Enfield plate (preferably 1941 or 1942 dated)?

Also looking for a Royal Enfield cam block. As in Ron's picture above, but with the advance mechanism on the left hand side. I do have the "L" stamped cam though...

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I would be happy to swap my 1943 LI plate for your Norton one if no one comes up with an earlier one, I have a 1942 Norton plate on the mag that is being serviced at the moment but my Big4 is 1941.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Jan
These production dates come from the factory ledgers Rob, so they're definitely correct.

By the way, I have now come to the conclusion that the copper plate on my WD/CO mag (M01/4 AG.4 - 465110 dated 4 41) comes from a C6127 Norton 16H. Is anybody interested in a swap for a Royal Enfield plate (preferably 1941 or 1942 dated)?

Also looking for a Royal Enfield cam block. As in Ron's picture above, but with the advance mechanism on the left hand side. I do have the "L" stamped cam though...

Jan


For Information :-

 photo Afbeelding 180_zpslhvi5oil.jpg

The C6127 LV7 pages are dated May - July 1940. Have we seen any reference to an M01/03 ? It seems that they may have jumped from the /02 to the /04 in 1940 and then to the /06 in 1946.

This Lucas list from August 1946 refers to a 'Redesigned Magdyno' It would make sense if this was the change to the post-war style 'cutaway' body and if this was the /6 version - or did the /6 designation appear earlier ? Later 1950s list refer to the M01L and I had an idea that this referred to left-hand i.e. anti-clock mags but the 1950s lists indicate that this was simply the Magdyno when fitted with the Long dynamo.

 photo Lucas August 1946_zpsyg6mgecg.jpg

I also turned up a photo of an M01"1 (odd that they sometimes have a single ')  photo M011 L6 463827 9-37_zps7nomfez6.jpg

The M01/1 seems to have been the original face-cam magdyno with the nice but rather fragile 'scalloped' end cover. We then have the /2 and the /4 with no apparent visible differences other than the change from aluminium to silvered brass identification plates, followed by the /6 with the later type body.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I've just checked some old mags in the workshop, and Rik's conclusion appears to be spot on:
- found a 1937 M01/1 with scalloped cover
- found a 1949 MO1/6 with cutaway body
- found a pair of 1952 - 1953 M01L mags.

We're getting there!
Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Interesting post,there is one on ebay 122162739381.Have a few MO1 mags will have a look at them,also got some loose plates if I can find them.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

New discovery: 1936 M01/0...

 photo 6-3.jpg
 photo 6-4.jpg

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I'm guessing that a 1936/7 MO mag would have a ring cam instead of the cam plate that we know as usual for our WW2 period bikes?

Today I changed the post war tight wire mag on my WDC for a correct type. Fortunately, unlike my CO i didn't have to remove the exhaust to get the timing cover off
Ron

 photo WDC 093_zps9lygiblf.jpg

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Ron Pier
I'm guessing that a 1936/7 MO mag would have a ring cam instead of the cam plate that we know as usual for our WW2 period bikes?


The 1936 and 1937 mags that I posted earlier both had a face cam. I think I read somewhere that the M01 mag came out in 1936. Good question: when did they use a ring cam?

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

According to the 1937 - 1957 retrospective list, the ring cam magdyno was the MN and the M01 indicated face cam.

http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/library/Parts%20lists/Lucas%20motor%20cycle%20parts%201936-57/G24-40%20Magdynos.pdf

I'm just correcting this post as I had wondered if the M01/0 had a third brush dyno but I've just found a photo in my files of a 3rd brush unit (with ring cam) marked MSLV...The pre-M01 mags don't seem to have had detachable plates but rather were stamped along the flange edge.

MSLV from April 1936 :-

 photo P8301025_zpsui1wmhjv.jpg

What was the change then from /0 to /1 ?

I find it hard to believe that no pre-war (or even early post-war) Lucas catalogues seem to have survived and that we are forced to rely on the 1957 supersession catalogue which has lots of gaps in part numbers for magdynos which clearly existed as the details are in the WD literature (and the data plates survive).

Even the VMCC library lacks any pre-war Lucas motorcycle part number info. Maybe Beaulieu is worth a try ?

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Rik
According to the 1937 - 1957 retrospective list, the ring cam magdyno was the MN and the M01 indicated face cam.

http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/library/Parts%20lists/Lucas%20motor%20cycle%20parts%201936-57/G24-40%20Magdynos.pdf

I'm just correcting this post as I had wondered if the M01/0 had a third brush dyno but I've just found a photo in my files of a 3rd brush unit (with ring cam) marked MSLV...The pre-M01 mags don't seem to have had detachable plates but rather were stamped along the flange edge.

What was the change then fro /0 to /1 ?

I find it hard to believe that no pre-war (or even early post-war) Lucas catalogues seem to have survived and that we are forced to rely on the 1957 supersession catalogue which has lots of gaps in part numbers for magdynos which clearly existed as the details are in the WD literature (and the data plates survive).

Even the VMCC library lacks any pre-war Lucas motorcycle part number info. Maybe Beaulieu is worth a try ?


The dynamo looks completely different on the M01/0. It doesn't look like the 3rd brush dynamo that I have in the workshop either. No idea which dynamo this is:

 photo 3-3.jpg

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Jan, that is indeed odd. I've never seen anything like it.

This is the 3rd brush on the 1936 ES2 magdyno.

 photo P8301019_zpsrxebiyrd.jpg

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Jeez!!!

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

'Good question: when did they use a ring cam?'...

The twin cylinder versions used ring cams...

Regarding dynamos and to further confuse the issue, there were European 'copies' of Lucas dynamos...I had one a while back with metric threads and an aluminium end cover rather than Bakelite...Don't forget Lucas sold electrical components to a lot of users and not all in the UK...

These users could and did add their own components to make up units...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

The MSLV above is a ring cam mag as indicated by the low bakelite points cover. Although the face cam points are nice and easy to work on, they do make for a longer unit with a taller cover that can be quite a fiddle to remove on Nortons at least. The points have to be in just the right place.

According to Edgar Franks' Norton guide in the Pearson series, the change to face cam came in 1937 at the same time as the CVC regulation. However, there is quite a possibility that both types were available for a time, in order to fulfil existing contracts and as Norton tended to be a little old-fashioned, they may well have not been the first to change.

There is a clue on the Draganfly site as to the change between the M01/2 and the M01/4....

"The points end bearing changed from 35 to 37 mm outside diameter in 1940..."

I'm a little concerned now as it may just be that I have a 37mm bearing on my 1939 motorcycle.... ...I shall struggle to sleep at night

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Took a few photos of the loose mags I have,three of them have AC20 on them,but the photo below is the only odd one,the Triumph 3HW original maintenance manual that I have states for the mag Model MO14,Type L541 anti clockwise. v photo DSC_0594_zpsa6248a5a.jpg

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

This latest photo rather demolishes my new theory that the M01/6 had the cutaway body and shows that it was in fact a wartime mag - It has an April 1945 date.

According to Jan's listing, this is a late Enfield C and CO instrument, although he had information that it was used from 1946 and it appears to have been in use a year earlier.

The change to the /6 therefore must just have invloved the small changes that Rob listed earlier.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

('I'm a little concerned now as it may just be that I have a 37mm bearing on my 1939 motorcycle.... ...I shall struggle to sleep at night..')

Don't worry too much Rik...You'll be shot at dawn anyway... ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I have found another earlier edition of this book, the Chilwell Vocabulary Of Army Ordnance Stores (VAOS) Master spares list LV6-MT8 dated Nov 1943 to compare with the Jan 1946 list.

I have added part numbers where shown and the schedule numbers.

The content of the earlier edition is all the same except it doesn't mention the M01/6/AC20 which therefore must have been introduced after Nov 1943, in the later edition spares were still available for the M01/4/AC20 but if a complete unit was needed you were told to indent for (Demand) the later type.

In the case of the AG4 Norton magneto it appears to indicate the M01/6 had already become the standard type by Nov 1943 and spares were no longer available for the earlier variants which are not mentioned.

M01/4/L/O LU/465101 LU/MAGDYNO/1942 DEMAND MT8/LU/46009
M01/4/AC20 LU/465109 LU/MAGDYNO/1651 DEMAND MT8/LU/46011
M01/6/AC20 LU/46011 LU/MAGDYNO/2719
M01/4/AQ4 LU/465115 LU/MAGDYNO/1976 DEMAND MT8/LU/46014
M01/6/AG4 LU/46012 LU/MAGDYNO/2689
M01/6/L/O LU/46009 LU/MAGDYNO/2697
M01/6/LI-O LU/46010 LU/MAGDYNO/2698
M01/6/H3 LU/46013 LU/MAGDYNO/2781

These copies of the Chilwell spares lists are Rob van Meel reprints available here

http://www.robvanmeel.nl/?q=catalog/300

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Rik
According to the 1937 - 1957 retrospective list, the ring cam magdyno was the MN and the M01 indicated face cam.

http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/library/Parts%20lists/Lucas%20motor%20cycle%20parts%201936-57/G24-40%20Magdynos.pdf

I'm just correcting this post as I had wondered if the M01/0 had a third brush dyno but I've just found a photo in my files of a 3rd brush unit (with ring cam) marked MSLV...The pre-M01 mags don't seem to have had detachable plates but rather were stamped along the flange edge.

MSLV from April 1936 :-

 photo P8301025_zpsui1wmhjv.jpg

What was the change then from /0 to /1 ?

I find it hard to believe that no pre-war (or even early post-war) Lucas catalogues seem to have survived and that we are forced to rely on the 1957 supersession catalogue which has lots of gaps in part numbers for magdynos which clearly existed as the details are in the WD literature (and the data plates survive).

Even the VMCC library lacks any pre-war Lucas motorcycle part number info. Maybe Beaulieu is worth a try ?

Rick the MSL magnetos seem to have been used from 1930-36. They are also numbered MSL 1though to 10.
The V is for V twins. There seems to be some over lap with the dates for the earlier MBD type that appears to have run from 1927 to 31. All are ring type and ran a 3 brush Dynamo.
Cheers Darren C

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Cheers Darren. I've never studied these earlier mags, just picked them up and looked at them from time to time.

There is so much information in the codes and numbers but much of it seems to have been lost and forgotten prior to the internet age.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

just a last question, maybe a stupid one?? but what is the original finish of the mag plates either brass or alloy, blackened like the replicas we see on different website or bare metal????
Arnaud

email (option): leger-arnaud@wanadoo.fr

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

The pre-war and early war tags were aluminium and this was used again after the war. The brass tags used for most of the war appear to have been silvered...it was certainly a thin, fairly soft and not very durable coating. The best-preserved tags usually show some signs of it.

Certainly the alloy ones had a balck anodised detailing. I suspect that the brass type didn't have this.

I'll post some photos tomorrow but Photobucket is down.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I've been learning a lot here the last two days on Magneto's. Am still a rooky in this field.
What I haven't found is my own 2 Magdyno's I have. Am not sure, but maybe I can add up to the confusion:

My two Magneto's say the following on their brass plates:
MO1'4 46012B
AG4 145

MO1'4 46012B
AG4 943

Both come from a Norton 16H with serial numbers W91327 and W92487, contract S5161 (1944/1945).
Now I assume that 145 and 943 mean Jan 1945 and Sept 1943.

What strikes me is the fact that 46012B is not mentioned in any of your listings here above, whereas year of build could be 1943 and 1945?

Did see Rob's comment, but that is a MO1/6:
M01/6/AG4 LU/46012 LU/MAGDYNO/2689

And I see Rik's, but that might be a typo, 8 vs B:
M01/4 AG4 460128 11/42 (Brass)

email (option): mail@xandre.nl

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Xandre, rather than a typo, my use of the '8' rather than a 'B' is due to the fact that I don't have one of these later magdynos and am relying on photos of grubby labels. The Lucas stampings are sometimes a little indistict and I've seen examples of dates with a 'I' in rather than '1' - In the same way, it looks to me that the correct designation is M01 and not MO1.

Lucas seem to have started out with 6-digit numbers for magdynos then gone over to 5-digit with a suffix letter. This is perhaps more logical as it allows for updates without changing the whole number. 46012 seems to have been a Norton type and can be found with suffixes from A to E.

However, these are purely catalogue parts numbers. The important thing is the AG4 code which indicates a clockwise mag with cylinder-side pickup and Norton four-screw fixing....the latter two are really the only things that can't easily be changed.

Any AG4 with a wartime date that you find acceptable is OK on a WD16H.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I bought this humble little item from John O Brian at Beaulieu on Saturday, I have never actually seen an M01 condenser before even though they have caused me several breakdowns and a fair amount of exercise over the years. Like all wartime Lucas spares its dated, and the Lucas CAV Rotax device is nice, I wonder if the box is period or could it be a post war repackage for the Irish Army?

Rob

condensor

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Grettings from Argentina!

This is the Magdyno i found in my 1944 Ariel WNG M01*4 46011B AC20 344



Any pic about the correct Ariel Magdyno M01/6 H3/0 ?

Thnaks in advance!

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Here are the missing pictures from my earlier posts.

Post 1
mag-plates

Post 17
Image71

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Rob Miller
I bought this humble little item from John O Brian at Beaulieu on Saturday, I have never actually seen an M01 condenser before even though they have caused me several breakdowns and a fair amount of exercise over the years. Like all wartime Lucas spares its dated, and the Lucas CAV Rotax device is nice, I wonder if the box is period or could it be a post war repackage for the Irish Army?

Rob

I've only just seen this picture, is this a mica condenser? As far as I know they stopped using the mica type about 39-40 then changed to the paper insulated type. Unfortunately the paper breaks down over time causing the short we are all aware of. The mica type doesn't fail as it is a sheet of mica. My mag man said they're better than the modern replacement so he always leaves them in if possible.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Rik
The Lucas 1935-39 master catalogue does exist
I have an original one

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

That's wonderful, Darren Is it illustrated ?

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Another Magdyno Plate

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I own Lucas Magdyno M01*2 463957 L6 79, which based on this thread is from July 1939, and supposedly came from an imported M20 to the U.S. with other M20 parts that I purchased. The aluminum bottom section is painted dark green, consistent with post-WWII refurbished motorcycles. The data plate is steel.

email (option): questmasters(at)hotmail(dot)com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Rob,

I have a 1935-1950 Lucas catalog scanned (thanks to Rob v/d Brink) it's a copy of a copy, but can send the PDF by mail, if you don't have it?

re. the brass plates, I think they are nickel plated brass, but very thin.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbi##.net (think about this!)

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Here's my 1944 Royal Enfield WD/CO (contract #12425) magdyno plate.

Untitled

Regards,
Bas

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

An M01'2 is certainly early and would normally have had an anodised aluminium label. To save resources, they changed to brass. As Lex says, they had a silver coating...it could be a flash of nickel or some from of silvering. It was very thin and quickly worn away.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Bas
Here's my 1944 Royal Enfield WD/CO (contract #12425) magdyno plate.



Regards,
Bas
Hi Bas
Can show in another post , pics from your RE?
A friend have RE/CO with same contract, but a lot of missing parts.
Regards

email (option): m606paz@yahoo.com.ar

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Lucas Magdyno M01*2 463957 L6 79 (July 1939?)


email (option): questmasters(at)hotmail(dot)com

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I've failed to come up with an answer as to which manufacturer used the L6 magdyno and I can't trace 463957 either - it's very close to a number of known instruments but is missing from the post-war supersession listings.

I've asked Darren who posted above if his older list can shed any light.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I've gone through the pre-war listings in some detail with Darren's help and find no trace of the L6 variant, nor of a part number 463957.....I wonder if it was a spare part supplied separately, perhaps to upgrade earlier magnetos and therefore doesn't appear in the machine-specific listings.




Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Just to confirm Rob's findings, the civilian listings for 1939 show the following -

Ariel - H3 - 463963
BSA - AC20 - 463959
Norton - AG4 - 463960
R.E. - L1 - 464926
Triumph No code -463951

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

Whilst I am in magneto mode here is my silvered data plate info(wm20). MO1 4. 46011B. AC20. 243.
Regards jon

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I've been looking at my records again with recent additions and been able to confirm that the code letter for Triumph is simply 'L'

The pre-war fitments list shows parts numbered 463821 (1937) and 463951 (1939). The former is an M01'1 and the latter an M01'2

M01-1-L-463821-S-37-3

M01-2-463951-39-11-L

The M01'2 is likely to have been fitted up until the end of 1939, but by February / March 1940, the M01'4 had appeared and I don't yet have a part number for that. It should though still have the 'L' code so I'll know it when I see it. The M01'6 from Late 1944 / Early 1955 is also unknown as Triumph had no post-war singles that would enable a cross-reference.

463951 is also listed for 1939 Cotton, OK Supreme and Sunbeam. I also have a photo of an L6 with a slightly unclear part number. If it is indeed 463827 then it is New Imperial.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

I think that I've narrowed down the M01'4 used by Triumph, which should be the most common, but not the late war M01'6 yet.

The M01'4 is 465101 and either Type L or L/0

I've started putting together a full list..so if anyone can add anything, it would be a good moment to include it.

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

The MO1/4 AQ/4 465115 which appeared for RE WD/D contract C/7945 appears in the civilian lists for 1940 150cc and 250cc models. This makes sense as C7945 was the composite July 1940 contract made up of various models and having the appearance of using up factory stock and spares.

It seems to have been interchangeble in all respects with the L1 type. The difference may have been as simple as the length of A/R cable or HT lead fitted to the complete assembly

Re: Lucas M01 Magneto Variants

As so often, once one starts looking there is often more information available so I've attempted to correlate evrything that I can find. It's from multiple sources and is based as far as possible on definitive links, but E.&.O.E., of course. The lists commence with the pre-war MO1/0 as although not generally used for 'our' generation of WD machines, they may help identify one that's fitted. I've included the ring cam MSL1 for Norton as these were initially fitted to machines which saw wartime service.

The 1950s Lucas documentation clearly refers to 'MO' and not 'M0' although a zero is what appears to be stamped on the plates and the ' mark is shown as a full stroke.

In general, it's all quite logical and straightforward, with the exception of Royal Enfield and their plethora of models and variations. Although Triumph are shown in Lucas literature as 'L/0', the few plates that I have seen are stamped simply 'L'

The next task will be to try pinning down the dates of the changes and whether aluminium or brass plates were used.

Ariel
MO1/0 - H3/1 - 463814
MO1/1 - H3/1 - 463834
MO1/2 - H3 - - 463963
MO1/4 - H3 - - 465112
MO1/6 - H3/0 - 46013

BSA
MO1/1 - AC20/0 - 463830
MO1/2 - AC20 - - 463959
MO1/4 - AC20 - - 465109
MO1/6 - AC20 - - 46011

Norton
MSL1/11 – AG - 462810
MO1/0 – AG4 - 463811
MO1/1 - AG4 - 463831
MO1/2 - AG4 - 463960
MO1/4 - AG4 - 465110
MO1/6 - AG4/0 - 46012

Royal Enfield
MO1/0 – L1 – 463821 – 1938 Range
MO1/1 - L1 – 464926 – 1939 Range
MO1/2 – L1 – 463952 - WD/C
MO1/4 - L1 – 465102 – WD/CO + D + G + L
MO1/4 – AQ4 – 465115 – WD/D
MO1/4 - H3 – 465112 – WD/C
MO1/4 - L1/0 – 46010
MO1/6 – L1/0 – 46010B

Triumph
MO1/1 - L/0- 463821
MO1/2 - L/0 - 463951
MO1/4 - L/0 - 465101
MO1/6 – L/0 - 46009



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