hi chaps i hope all is well.
i was thinking of building a RAF matchless WD G3L as part of contract S.1050
so might go for the BS 381-633 blue grey?? has any one got pictures of the G3L in this colour?
also i se that most war time bikes, the fuel tank number starts with RAF, how does one work out the RAF number? i do have a tank C number, could this still be used instead

thanks, barry

email (option): fullerbarry@hotmail.co.uk

Hi Barry

I don't think any RAF number information has survived, I think at some point in the war the "RAF" was moved from the front to the back of registration so they could start again with the numbers rather than making them so big they wouldn't fit on.

Colour was probably the same as Army machines KG3 Green 1940-1942, SCC No.2 Brown 1942-1944 and British Olive 1944-1945, with RAF blue/grey only really being pre and post war.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hello Barry,
Atm I am building a RAF W/NG and I sprayed it blue-grey.
I could not find a cross reference for the BS number, I did find a list on the net but for this BS color there was no match.
I took RAL 5008 blue-grey 2K. coded 'Stumpf' meaning very dull.
And yes, the RAF bikes where only blue-gray before and after the war if you follow the book. but it's nice to be different.
regards, Vincent

email (option): vincent@vincentvanginneke.com

You need paint code BS 633. Regards, John Tinley

hi thanks for the info. i can get the colour no problem. knowing that most bikes were green of some sort surely there may have been blue bikes at some point, maybe hard to tell from black and white photos, other that ive never seen a picture of one, be nice to se what it looks like before i build one.
i was hoping to paint my current G3L project in the RAF blue/grey, just want to try something different.

thanks again guys

barry

email (option): fullerbarry@hotmail.co.uk

G3Ls would have been produced long after the decision to suspend blue/grey for the duration.

Norton got a serious bollocking in March 1941 for supplying 20 sidecar outfits in blue/grey. It was decided to accept them as they had already been delivered but no more...I suspect that they were soon repainted.

Was there ever a matt blue/grey ? Pre- and post-war were gloss.

RAF numbers are a puzzle. It is clear that they were issued as vehicles arrived. Motorcycles were mixed up amongst four-wheelers. Any allocations are guess work.

I've used BS 633 (appropriate number) to spray odd RAF items, like this 1939 dated Air Ministry 2 gall petrol can. But agree with the others. All vehicles supplied during the war were in 'Service Colour'.

No numbers are available for RAF or RN vehicles so I've used artistic licence and painted numbers close to something I've seen in original pictures.

Barry if you have a genuine army bike and can put it's correct census number on, why would you want to make it something it's not? I'd rather wait till a genuine RAF bike came along. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Yes, BS633 is a good choice, but what is the cross reference to a RAL code ??
In the Netherlands I did not find a company that could translate this BS code into a RAL code. I dont think this cross reference exist. (GB versus EU in a nutshell!)

email (option): vincent@vincentvanginneke.com

Why would there be a cross-reference to the Reichs-Ausschuss für Lieferbedingungen charts ? I doubt that there was a BS number for Feldgräu.

If you really want a match to a colour that wasn't used on wartime vehicles then obtaining an original sample and taking it to a supplier is the best option.

There are a couple of RAL alternatives on this chart.

http://www.e-paint.co.uk/Colour_alternatives.asp?cRange=BS%20Other&cRef=BS%20633&metallic2=False&cDescription=RAF%20blue-grey

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

ron i dont want to build something that wasn't, id rather restore the bike to how it should be. looking at british forces book, G3Ls under contract S.1050, which were 9000 produced in 1942, army and some bikes to the RAF. with out markings or evidence theres no way of knowing where the bikes ended up. i had evidence of my airborne matchless from contract C11102 being in the RAF some where but left it green although there were traces of blue/grey colour but green on the wheels and frame.
contract S.1050 seems a good opportunity to build a RAF G3L in blue/grey..

barry

email (option): fullerbarry@hotmail.co.uk

Barry, as a matter of interest have you still got the Airborne bike? How do you know it was issued to the Airborne forces and not just an early G3L which might have been issued to another army unit. Did it have the yellow vertical line painted on the outer primary chaincase showing the centre of gravity? I would be interested to know if there were any other lightened or possible airborne parts fitted? Cheers John

hi john i dont have that bike now. the original outer primary cover was missing. when i brought the bike from bordon REME museum, the historian chap i got it from told me the bike was delivered to a RAOC in 1941 and it was then issued to the RAF, the green on the bike may or would have been its original colour, there was blue/grey paint inside the engine plates, under the mag platform and other hidden places.
i dont want to get into a debate about what a bike should look like, i know what they should look like but i was just thinking of trying something different like an RAF blue/grey G3L, if it dont work out then it will be green.

thanks, barry

email (option): fullerbarry@hotmail.co.uk

If you want something different, then why don't you go for purple or pink? In my opinion there are already far too many blue RAF bikes around. This is a vicious circle that makes people think that an RAF bike should be blue... Just for history's sake, why don't we keep it simple and rebuild bikes just as they were?

Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

I have to agree with Jan.

When I see a blue painted 1940-45 manufactured bike I think it would look better painted in wartime colours rather than post war, but the general public lap it up as fact.

I hope the purpose of this forum is to share engineering knowledge and historical information not how to pimp my ride and fancy dress.

Barry, it is your bike and you can paint it any colour you like, but don't expect everyone to agree with you.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk