http://www.sumpmagazine.com/classicbikenews/cb-news-may-2016.htm#mortons-kempton-park

email (option): dannydefazio@aol.com

I wwasn't even upset when Ian Wright posted it earlier

I haven't been to Kempton in years for a number of reasons,the only Mortons event I go to is Netley and thats on a down slope, that I probably won't go to again after last years dismal effort.

Am I the only one that gets pissed off with the early admission trick thats sees it all cherry-picked before the mugs get in?

It's cherry-picked with a vengeance by the traders before even the early tickets get there...the advantage for me is avoiding the queue and an early opportunity to meet up at the tea stall !

I don't know why you lot go...You don't like the organisers, don't trust the traders and think that everything has been bought before you get there... ....

Could it be the cynicism of the punters that is leading to the decline of these events?..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

What really annoyed me at Netley last year was as a stall holder they gave me some free cup of tickets tea for the set up day and I forgot to claim them.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

You're misunderstanding, Ian. I find Eric Patterson and his local crew pleasant to speak with. It's a fact of life that the interesting stuff will change hands within the trade...and I don't need anything anyway !

For me it's a social event which means getting up at the crack of dawn, travelling specially to the UK from abroad with a couple of friends, meeting Ron at the tea stall, John O'B at the bar and usually bumping into some old chancer who specialises in M20 bits..and I love it.

I'm not so keen on the rent-a-mob black shirted attendants that Mortons bring and I hate stalls full of Chinese tools, dodgy sweets and scuffed-up Japanese fairing panels.

To my mind, Morton's policy of taking any standholder who will pay (or do they just lack the expertise or personal contact to judge ?) is what will kill the jumbles.

There is no point whatsoever in me going to all the trouble to come over if half the stalls are selling newly manufactured junk that is available on the internet. I want to search through boxes of unsorted old stuff and those sellers are just the ones who will be put off by high trader prices and a 'one size fits all' organisation.

Yes I agree with Rik. It is the personal touch that I will miss. Kempton is my usual haunt and I go to most of them. It's 100 miles for me and I like to get there early to avoid the rush. Erik has always allowed an early entry by paying extra to his friendly gate crew. Just the same as John Budgen did at Netley and whoever ran Stafford before Moretons took over.

The cost of spending the weekend at Stafford and the 'BOUNCERS' who seem to run the place with a sense of power that they probably don't get in their normal daily lives has put me off going now.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

['It's a fact of life that the interesting stuff will change hands within the trade..']

Traders trade, that's what they do to make their money...but to suggest that everything interesting and worth buying has changed hands before the gates open (and by inference had the price inflated before anyone gets in) is both inaccurate and exaggerated...

I have bought hundreds and hundreds of individual items that I needed over the years at perfectly reasonable prices...

Apart from the guys on the gate you are generally unlikely to interface with Mortons staff at all once you are inside an event..I can't really see that is an issue..
I don't think most people are there so they can have a meaningful conversation with the staff..

As far as early entries go many people don't think THAT system should be in place...If people arrive for an advertised nine o'clock opening for example, why should they have to accept that people are already in snapping up early bargains?..
It seems to me that is the same behaviour that is criticised in supposedly unscrupulous traders....

I wouldn't argue that Mortons are perfect, far from it...Riks comments about the type of stalls for example is certainly true..Stalls selling parts/related services should make up the bulk of the event at a motorcycle jumble...

Camping is also expensive at Stafford as Ron notes...but that accusation could equally have been levelled at the old 'War and Peace Show' for example...though I've not heard people make much of it in that case...

There are valid complaints that can be made against Mortons and I think if they don't do something about Netley that event will ultimately be lost but I can't say I'm a fan of the 'lets all have a go at Mortons' train of thought...

The fact is there are a lot of Mortons events and not many 'independent' ones...Yet anyone can run an event....

It may well be there aren't many 'independent' organisers out there and if you didn't have Mortons you wouldn't have anything...

Finally, at the end of the day no one can buy anything if it's not for sale...All the 'good old boys' who used to run these events reached out for the money when it was offered....Financial reality perhaps?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I hate the "Bouncers" as well. Sadly, they're becoming a necessary addition at a lot of places. I've recently set up in the mornings at jumbles, only to be told that the sites had been "visited" during the night, and stock had disappeared over the fence.

What will the future hold? Will all the decent stuff disappear to ebay? Who knows, but as a rule, if the gates open at 9:30, or 10:00, that's when we open up for trading. "Early-birds", or other traders, have to catch the worms at the same time as the other people. If you look around, it's usually the same half dozen traders going around, as soon as the sun comes up (sometimes before), hoovering up the bargains, or everything from some models (so you then HAVE to buy from them, as they are the only ones with all the bits for that bike), or "helping" old boys unload their cars, so they can stop the stuff even touching the ground.

email (option): oldjunk@btinternet.com

['If you look around, it's usually the same half dozen traders going around, as soon as the sun comes up (sometimes before), hoovering up the bargains']..

They are not 'hoovering up bargains..'..They are trading, buying and selling, that's what they do...and the fact is as a trader you have to get the profit where you can find it...

At the end of the day if something is too expensive no one has to buy it and no trader gets everything....All the stock at a jumble was previously purchased from somewhere else, or another dealer, at a lower price than it is for sale for at a given jumble...

That is the nature of trade...

If you want to go to a jumble and see parts for sale, that you can buy, then don't begrudge the dealer his profit...He had to work for it and invest to get it....

There'll be nothing there if there is no profit.. Why is that so hard to accept?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I started selling at autojumbles in 1976, Banbury event was in a field near the station, lots of other small jumbles sprang up some lasted some didn't; the big event of the year was Beaulieu, which despite its sidelining of bike stuff was an interesting weekend, but that too got ruined by its success,which is why Netley started and was so successful.

What I miss, is the cameraderie that existed amongst the ordinary blokes just trading stuff they no longer needed, yes there was always the semi pro sellers from the VMCC hierachy/ elite but it was often an education of sorts from very knowledgeable guys.

Now you seem to get a lot of chancers who know sod all about their goods, like the one who turns up chucks it all out the back of a lorry, "dunno what is is mate its 20quid," that and the dodgy looking rat bike types who look as if they really want to sell something hookey.

I suppose most of those old style sellers I knew are dead or nearly dead, like myself who really does not like what has happened to the vintage bike scene.

But I'm just a grumpy old git still stuck in the past. [which by the way I enjoy more than the present]

Overall I do not think Moretons empire building is a good thing. As far as I can see they bugger up everything they touch, they have ruined the bike press.

When 'Classic Bike' magazine came out and the term 'classic bike' was invented,

when jumblers started to do it as their main income,

when people started to regard bikes as an 'investment' not an old bike and a way to get about,

when companies came into it specifically to profit from that scene,

when the 'enthusiasts' started to 'trade' themselves,

and when (yes it's true) the VMCC began to operate as a business to make money and lost track of its actual function... Then the days of the 'old boys' network at jumbles were finished and became a happy memory...

I realised that and more when I started to jumble and found the people I thought were 'enthusiasts' were stealing my stock...

A sign of the times I'm afraid...but it is also the fact that the money in the classic bike scene today is the reason why there are more parts available now than there were in 1975...

As always it 'yin and yang'...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Quite right Ian, we think along the same lines even if its not obvious.

As for nicking the stock, thats always been a problem from the word go;

A box of contact breaker assemblie at Ally Pally was my first big loss, about the only thing they fitted were Vincents, so I know hwere they went; an alloy AMC barrel at Banbury and probaly a lot else besides, then there is the smart alecs that used to pick up large item with their hand over the price and try to con my missus, happily she was more clued up than they were.
yes, yin and yang black and white, swings and roundabouts, but that does not mean its got any better.

The stuff around in 1975 was quite plentiful still and being NOS a lot better than much of the stuff on offer today.

I wish I had the stock now that I had in 1976; I still have the MCN ad somewhere.

3 basements full of genuine Triumph stuff, and a back room full of BSA stock. all from one place in Croyden. Includinging lots of stuff you still can't get. even now.

happy daze, and better than a container load of crap from India or china.

Jumbles these days are depressing places for me.

When I ran the Northampton branch of the Capri Club International, I used to go to all the meets, and sell off spares from my own vehicles and scrappers to pay for the weekend. If a dealer came to my stall, he paid my price or walked away. I had no problem with a dealer buying my stuff and putting it on his stall for a further profit. If I sold an item for £5.00, then that was what I valued it at and if a trader sold it for £10.00 then that was my problem for undervaluing it. I had many enjoyable outings haggling for and against customers and other traders. I have had dealers assisting in unloading the car and trailer so they could eyeball the stuff, but nothing ever got sold before the stall was up and running. If traders did not sell early to other traders/ early entrants, then there would be no problem, but ask yourself, if you had a stall and somebody came up (early) and offered a decent price for one of your items,would you take it?

email (option): stinkypete80@hotmail.com

This is the sort of attitude that really shits me.
I would not take it from the kids and I don't expect to see it from supposed adults

So go stand in a corner stamp you feet up & down , bawl your eyes out in a petulant frenzie till you have a heart attack.

Firstly life is not fair.
Secondly just becaus it is your pleasure does not mean it has to be cheap or even within your finances.
Thirdly if it was not for the evil nasty traders making a living out of your pleasure. I would have melted every old motorcycle down to recover the aluminium back in the 80's when you did not give a toss about old motorcycles.
Fourthly, you can not always get what you want which is something most parents don't seem to bother to teach their children any more and you would appear to be one of them.
So if this is such an unbearable burden to you, see all your bikes and take up doiley knitting just don't expect others to give you sympathy just because things don't go the way you want them to.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Well Ric , I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you & I & Ian & Hans & most of the people here are dinsaurs and just like the dinasaurs we will die out and dissapear off the face of the earth.

Most of thos who are not baby boomers are not interested in poorly engineered, frail , smelly dirty old Pommie motorcycles and that is a fact of life weather you like it or not.
The 50 year olds lust after Honda 4's , Z 1's, H1's, R 1"s and the like.
The Katana Owners club has more members than the BSA club
The vintage japaneese club down here doubles every year while we go up about 5%.

The HD riders got so pissed they have just invited the AHMA to form a branch in Aust to look after their interest because the multi marque clubs have all gone Japaneese BECAUSE MOST OF THE BRITISH RIDERS ARE DECEASED , walking in Zimmer frames or spruking the wonder of Britich bikes sitting on their BMW.

I like wandering around, chatting to friends I only ever see at swaps, raising my chlosterol level at BBQ and agrivating my diabetis & liver at the bar.
But nearly everything there is Japaneese, Chneese. Modern HD, even Spanish & Sweedish but very little British and most British stuff that comes there go back unsold because British bike owners are the most miserable tight fisted cheapskates the world has ever seen so if you want to be tollerated at events where your type are very rapidly becoming the dissappearing minority, stop whinging and except that your minute part of motorcycling has not been profitable for a long time and becomes less significant on a daily basis.

We have 130ish members.
The average age is 65
The yongest member is 47
All of the members under 50 are here purely to get help restoring their fathers / grandfathers / uncles / etc etc etc motorcycle and most of them will leave once it is finished and it has been that way for some time.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Who was this aimed at ? I've tried re-reading it to myself in a whinging rising intonation and I still can't make out who it's intended to slag.

I really don't know how this thread became so out of control.

I don't have a problem with the motorcycle trade in general (some individuals within it, definitely). My mention of dealers trading before doors open was purely a response to Ken's dislike of the fact that a number of jumbles allow mere punters in before the queues on payment of an extra charge.

I don't have a problem with the dealers buying and selling although as Duncan has said there are some who specifically buy up any competing articles and quite a number skim off as much as they can with a view to re-selling on eBay as soon as they get home. Once again a fact of life although I'm quite intitled to regret that it happens.

I date from the 1960s. I hope that I've still got a few years before infirmity causes me to stop motorcycling. Far too much of my disposable income goes on old motorcycles and most on this forum are not 'miserable tight-fisted cheapskates' at all. I suspect that you're not in a position to compare the scene in Australia which has a long history of anti-British sentiment anyway with that in the UK and NW Europe. Inevitably the old bike scene is changing but I don't have to like all of it.

I mentioned that I enjoy Beaulieu. Less motorcycle stuff indeed but but more tools and period parts. Much may be due to the fact that I feel that I have more in common with the people restoring Austin 7s than I do with those interested in 1980s Japanese stuff.

Mortons Exhibitions are pretadory and agressive. They actively pursue event organisers with an apparent intention to shut out any competition. It can't be healthy to have only one organiser of events from the north to the south of the UK. If you haven't experienced the 'before and after' then you're not really in a position to comment.

Some interesting opinions here.

When I first got into British motorcycle's I was 14, my parents both had Triumph Twins and they bought me a Corgi from the Bristol Classic Bike Show at the docks in Bristol and I have been doing this ever since, but in all those years the average age of British bike enthusiasts has appeared to be well north of 60, and for a long time I thought this hobby is doomed, in 20 years there will only be a few of us left. But that hasn't happened enough young and middle age enthusiasts always get into classic bikes later in life to make up the numbers to the degree that prices have continued to rise.

So I think the only way this hobby will mirror the dinosaurs is when the next meteorite comes along.

And as to Morton's, if they are the only people willing to keep all these events going, that has to be a good thing.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I think I failed to make my point clear; as a one time trader I have no objection to anyone doing the same, the biggest "traders" have always belonged to the VMCC,as much as I dislike that club, over the years their members , by seeking out, and buying up/saving from scrap vasts amount of of stuff that would never survived have done us all a favour, as has increased values.

My own opinion is that it is unfair to let non trade people in early for a premium admission, its unfair on those queueing for an hour in the wet and cold, or who cannot get away early or who travel milesfor the event.
I'm willing to bet those early birds flog the stuff on on ebay, and moan on forums about greedy traders.

As for the strange attitude of the down under brigade who are so anti us, and just want to vent some kind of resentment I've always wondered why they bother with us european types?

I don't care because we are, in comparison, awash with older bikes, of which the supply seems healthy, if daft priced. The constant moaning and critiscism from down there is one reason I don't sell my stuff to there.

As for Mortons they'll end up killing the goose that lay the eggs, and offload it all elsewhere. Its what they do, a bit like that Murdoch bloke.

The death of the classic and vintage bike scene has been predicted since I can remember, it hasn't happened yet.

Yes Trevor, the good old days are gone, and we, the dinosaurs, are on the way out; at 82 I know. I see the signs already in my grandson, at 15 his main interests are Formula 1, Bugatti Veyron and similar. And he is not particularly interested in the technical side of things; if his bike breaks down, he has it repaired at the local bike shop, also because school and sports takes too much time.
When restoring my M20 I explained its functioning, but I seriously doubt if in future he will be able to do even the simplest maintenance chores; he is the type that if something breaks, get a new one, AND 95% OF HIS CLASSMATES WILL DO THE SAME....

I had noted some time back some of Mortons Netley staff wandering about kempton and last week noted one of them in a Hi Viz Jacket in what seemed to be in work mode - confirming what Danny has informed us of

I wish Eric well, it has always been a great and very consistently good jumble, local to me - I have used it as a punter and jumbler over the years and it has also become like many, a good good meeting point for many of us to talk rubbish about our latest projects and or treasure we have just managed to pick up.

Many of us have our rides because of Kempton to which Eric has my gratitude, just hope he continues to be involved to maintain that fellow enthusiast link many of us have enjoyed over the years

Whilst I'm uneasy about the major jumbles becoming under the control of the Morton Group - it is what it is and wont stop me going

Like the jumble scene which I first attended on a weekend trip to Belle Vue in the UK in the early 80's - times have changed and if there is money to be made with ventures like this, companies like Mortons will continue to "invest" in securing such rights for their business portfolio

As for early entries, I am one of those who travels early, pays an extra fee to get in and targets to get my bits and leave early, although I always seem to fail to leave within the time I expect. its a great option and suits me and many others who go there, I would miss this if they exercise their option to restrict entries

Lets hope that the local VMCC (what ever the opinion is) clubs continue to organise their jumbles such as Shepton Mallet, excellent value for money and always a bit of treasure to be found - they offer at least an option

Happy Days

JO'B

email (option): jonnyob1@googlemail.com

I don't think this post is out of control...In fact some interesting views have been expressed...

I find the jumble scene OK generally and enjoy being involved in it...

As stated I don't, personally, have much of an axe to grind with any jumble organiser even though things may not be perfect (and what is 'perfect' exactly?)..I try to make the best of it as it is...

It's never difficult to hark back to times when there were more good quality used parts/NOS around and they were proportionally cheaper...That was then however, this is now...

The motorcycle scene has never been static in my life time and has always shown a degree of on going change....I'm sure that will continue so it's best to get used to it...

I agree broadly with Rob Millers view of how the 'age thing' works...

Thirty years ago people were saying it would die out because it was full of old men...It didn't die out as it happened...but the old men got replaced with another set of old men...

It seems people develop an interest in old things as they get older...

I had a British bike when I was 16...but then it was only 5 years old and was basically still a 'current' model..That is perhaps why there were more young people in it back then...They didn't actually have an interest in 'old bikes' but 'current' bikes...

If less people do come into the scene as time passes then that will exert a downward pressure on demand, so maybe the enthusiasts of the future will get cheaper bikes and parts... ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Just because we usually beat you at cricket, league & union does not mean or make us anti-Pom.
I have a shed full of bits which one day might become some functioning BSA's.

However the general attitude of British bike riders to parting with money seem faily well universal.
Go bck throuhg the archives of this particular forum and you will find "Cheap parts" out number "Best quality parts" by about 10:1.
How many new British parts shops have opened in your town in the past 20 years ?
Why ?
Because you can not make a living out of selling British bike parts.
It is not because there is no demand for parts in fact it is just about peaking, but almost no one is willing to pay you a fair price sufficiant for you to make a reasonable living.

And don't try to pretend it is just down here, Shops I have bought things from for years are closing down on a daily basis and when they do close, no one seems to want the stock to open a new shop, it just goes to one of the existing retailers.

A little illustration is I just bought a new Speedmaster ribbed tyre for the front of the M20.
I rang the Italian motorcycle shop who keeps them to check then drove 83km into the inner southern suburbs to buy it. The only British motorcycle shop onl orders them in after you have paid for them in full. 'To my dismay when I got there the 1 & only speedmaaster they keep was sitting on the counter and the customer was having a heated debate with the salesman.
Claiming he was being "conspired against" and at $ 175 the tyre was way too expensive and they should keep the Dunlop ribbed tyre because the last one he bought was only $ 45.
The customer behind him chipped in that Dunlop have not made a ribbed tyre for at least 20 years so $45 then is about $ 250 now in wages terms.
This customer then got some abuse, he demmanded that the shop sell him the tyre for less than $ 100 and eventually stormed out the door without the tyre screaming that he would get his tyre from an honest retailer.
I waited my turn, handed over the cash, had a cuppa with the mechanic who said that was typical and happens at least 2 or 3 times a day. I was leaving when Mr Nasty came back in and abused me because I had bought HIS tyre he needed it to go to a rally that weekend and his tyre was so worn the tube was showing through.
I suggested if he could not afford to run his bike he might be better off selling it.
The response ( minus the colourful bits ) was his annual bonus alone of $ 200,000 was most likey twice what I earned in a year.

We have 7 Italian motorcycle shops
We have 5 German motorcycle shops
We have 32 Harley shops
We have 4 Enfield India shops
We even have 2 Russian motorcycle shops
But there is ony 1 British motorcycle shop and he is trying to sell out.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Trevor,

I opened up a bike shop selling NOS spares in 1976, By 1984 I had had enough, and decided to just shut up shop and sold the stock in one lot to a guy who thought he had a steal.
Within 6 months he was also fed up and looking to get out.

Everything you said is true, the only way I differ is that I have far worse tales to tell; running that bike shop sent me to edge of sanity.

When I started another trader told me I'd make money, but lose all my biking friends; he was wrong about the money. I did get a good wife out of it all though.
Everyone is your mate when you have the spares they want, till they have to pay the going rate. Then you are the biggest sh*tbag on earth.

All that aside I still dislike what has become of the vintage classic bike movement, and the likes of Mortons.

I don't agree...I made my living from a bike business for 17 years doing standard and tuned engine rebuilds which weren't cheap...I built them to a high standard, not a low price and ultimately there were enough people prepared to pay for that......

I also did other work and sold parts, some of which I had manufactured..Suffice to say once established I didn't have to advertise for over 10 years...

Someone I know who was a self made millionaire advised me that if I was to run a small business pick a specialist niche market and get well established in it...Good advice in my opinion...

I have a friend who started his (full time) business (mainly Triumph spares) about 6 years ago..He is now the largest seller of parts from L F Harris in the UK ...and there are much bigger ones in the U.S...

I can assure you he is quietly becoming fairly well off....

There are plenty of successful businesses running and there is room for more..

Half the problem is the 'negative waves' of which there is no shortage...

'What is with you Moriarty?'.... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Mmmm never thought about putting a "Dunlop Speedmaster" on a M20. That would pretty quickly send me "down under"!

Well we had this out on the "new tyre" thread.
I really like the way the bike handles with a ribbed front.
The Avon is the only ribbed one we can get down here.
Substantially more tyre than is required but it is the best choice from a pool of one.
I run one on the A10 as well & the 66 A65.
Oddly enough I didn't like the way it handled on the 73 A65 so it used to get phantoms till they stopped making them. But that bike was my daily ride and I pushed it hard knocking up around 30,000 miles /year including a 150 mile daily round trip to work.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

If I was a lisenced motor mechanic I could eek out a living right now because at this point in time there is a reasonable amount of people happy to part with good money for a bike they don't have to worry about and will run like new.
However our consumer laws prevent that and at 66 I am a tad old to become an apprentice.
However the shops on the road are the proof there is no living in British parts down here.
In the past 30 years we have lost the same number of bike shops to the point we have only 1 left and he is selling out.
Sydney is 4,000,000 people with a fairly high standard of living and high disposable income. we guestamated there was around 15,000 to 20,000 BSA owners so there should be a living for a BSA specialist, but there is not.
There are shops that sell almost nothing but HD t-shirts who make a motza but ask a BSA rider to fork out $ 50.00 for a t-shirt and he will want a night with the seamstress thrown in .
Then we get the strait out sharletons who bring in a bike that they have blown the big end, ask you to do a clutch adjustment and tell you the bike just would not start this morning but they did a complete service last week.
Down here If I was to take on the job, I would end up being liable for the big end rebuild
And all this is before you are up against the "make 100 that look like this" from China morons on evilbay

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

"Then we get the strait out sharletons who bring in a bike that they have blown the big end, ask you to do a clutch adjustment and tell you the bike just would not start this morning but they did a complete service last week."

yes I got a lot of that.

or, "it can't be that cos my mate says.."

or, I talked one hard up guy, FOC mind you, through taking and replacing the top off his unit 650 Triumph, so he could bring me in the bottom end to replace the main bearings; not a rebuild mark you, just replace two bearings and give him back the reassembled lump.

2 week later, he's back demanding I give him a new crankcase, as the rear chain had broke and b*ggered his case. "My fault his mate said"

I offerd to buy him a new bike if he could show me how he got the engine out the frame without removing the chain.
No good deed goes unpunished.

It's call very well to mock and say negativity, but it's my experience in the bike trade that built it.

As for

" there is a reasonable amount of people happy to part with good money for a bike they don't have to worry about and will run like new."

They all say that before they get the bill.

One 'money is no object' guy, I did not get paid till I threatened to send the next request for settlement with his girl friends address, which is where he stored his concours winning, front page featured classic bike, to his wife.

Cheque by return at last.

As for the vintage Rolls Royce dealer who sent me to the edge of bankruptcy with lies and endless prevarication, thats another story.

My problem was I trusted a fellow motorcycle owner too often.

I can't comment on the bike scene in OZ..I've never been there and if I had it wouldn't have been for long enough to fully understand it...

As for the UK in the period from 1970 until now I stand by my view of things..
It is based squarely on my own experiences viewed from 'both sides of the counter' over a number of decades....

There are multiple reasons why a business might or might not work...The location, the type of work and retail activity carried out, the prices, the relationship with any potential customer, the skills of the proprietor, their ability to run a business, even the judgement of the person that runs it as to what 'success' actually is...

Personally I wasn't trying to get rich, just earn a living, and having come from a formal engineering environment I soon worked out it wasn't the easiest way to do that...It's much easier when you just draw a pay packet at the end of the month...

Again, I won't comment on other businesses and business models I have not been involved with...

What I do know is that I have a number of good friends 'in the trade' currently who are broadly speaking happy with their businesses and their income as of today...(and even some of the customers)

It is the nature of working with people that there may be some awkward ones and some you don't like...You tend to live with that...

However, if you happen to live in an area with a high percentage of As*****s or are just unlucky enough to draw the short straw a few times I can see that could alter your view of the world...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

"However, if you happen to live in an area with a high percentage of As*****s or are just unlucky enough to draw the short straw a few times I can see that could alter your view of the world...Ian"


there you have it, too bleddy right.

Mind you, in retrospect I was not the 'astute' business man I should have been.

Take heart that the old bike scene is still alive and well in the "younger" generation. I'm still the south side of 40. I bought my first British bike 20 or so years ago. I have quite a few few friends who love the British bikes, and who I have no doubt will have some in time, but I can fully appreciate at this age justifying the purchase of a bike when you've a mortgage and family its not easy to do.

email (option): glenn_mullan@postmaster.co.uk

Hi Glenn
I second that I'm not yet 35 and got my first British bike when I was 16, though the first bike was when I was 10, I now have more than 10 and all are British made I have had other European and Japanese bikes but I will forever associate Japanese bikes with the the dump and the scrap man as this where they all came from when I was a kid, and most including vt500s and other bigger bikes we're then driven on our fields so I probably never will value them.
The old brit stuff to me is much more interesting in design and in historical terms and much more user friendly than the Japanese and other stuff.
I would have loved to have been around when my father and I'm sure most of the users of the forum were buying an old a10 for a tenner but them maybe I'd have same view of them today as I do of the Japanese ones.
I know that the price of parts is more than you used to pay but then I don't have that comparison in my lifetime so the price today is what I'll pay and that is it. Of course if I had I time machine I'd go back get the cheap stuff but I don't and I live in the now and If I can keep another bike going for someone else in the future at a reasonable cost (in my view) then that's all that counts. And most of all I get fun out of it.
My younger brother has a couple and I know a couple of others my age into the old brit stuff to.

That's what I like to hear...Keep at it ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com