Hope you don't mind me posting this picture of my 1947 XM20

Am sure some of the site members will know this machine...

Any...and all comments will be greatly appreciated...

Jimmy

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

Is this the "fake" RAF bike that John talked about?

Are you going to return it to civilian colours?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

That's a good looking bike! Thanks for posting!

Allan

email (option): allanmatchless@yahoo.com

Good looking bike!
But what is "off" about the topic? Seems like right on the money to me.

To my knowledge the RAF or the Army for that matter didn't purchase any new M20s after 1945 so this is a post war civillian machine painted in RAF paint.

Replica military vehicles do have there place such as expendable film props and in cases where there are no surviving examples, but a genuine WDM20 is not rare or difficult to find.

In this case the numbers weren't tampered with so if its creation was fraud it was a half assed attempt.

In my opinion.
Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

One thing about this bike. It has the side-car lug on the front down tube which I think was standard on all post war M20's. But not one on the right side rear as I would have expected to see. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Its a good supply of parts if you have a nice wartime frame.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Naaah, that's kinda harsh on such a nice looking bike isn't it? Depends I guess if your after appearing on the Antique roadshow or if you just want to appear good looking on the road.
I for one wouldn't mind seeing a picture from the opposite side as well. Be it a "fraud attempt" or not.

The real frauds in the motorcycle business is to my finding usually in the area of "Engine is fully rebuilt but never started, just needs oil lines and a magneto restoration" Yeah right! "Basket case 98% complete"!

I have an interest in vintage Scooters (have a -66 Vespa Supersport) and there are some frauds going on there I can tell you! Mainly from Asia selling "Fully Restored" bikes to newcomers to the scene around the world. These bikes are always just a mess of parts from different years and models. Typically they are painted in pastel colours, often two different and with lots of chrome. There are so many sad stories out there of people paying big bucks for what they think is a restored vehicle and ending up with junk. I have seen pictures of main bearings being shimmed in cases with strips of beer bottles. It true! The Horror, the horror...

Her is one that I wouldn't recommend http://www.ebay.com/itm/ITALIAN-VESPA-STANDARD-VBB-150-1961s-FULLY-RESTORED-FREE-SHIPPING-GREEN-/262305009684?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3d1298d014:g:ieoAAOSwll1WzW-L&item=262305009684

Oh well now, I was gonna apologize for going off topic, but the the topic was "off topic" wasn't it, so by that I guess I'm just way off everything. Gonna try and stop typing now... ...must get back to work...

Good day to you all!

Hello from your camp site neighbours at the 70th d day bash in france hope you are both well and your bikes are running ok

With only one sidecar lug on the rear frame (I assume it has one) it is the right spec. for an RAF sidecar contract so can comfortably pass visually as an RAF machine...

OK, so it's not a genuine WD machine..but neither is a replica Welbike and I'm sure they get used at military events...as do Chinese and Russian sidecar outfits altered to look like BMWs...

The bike looks the part and only has one different frame number prefix...So, if that's how you like it use it like that...

Also don't forget M20s built up to and including 1947 used most of (and mostly) the military parts, not losing things like the WD footrests until June of that year when BSA ran out of them...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Are those front brake shoes particularly thick or am I particularly thick and desperately need new shoes?

email (option): sacombsashtrees@hotmail.com

Its a very nice bike indeed.
Nothing wrong with it.
Don't forget most M20's are put together from parts

It's possible on an M20 to move the brake arm round one click and fit a longer cable when the linings wear down. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Thanks Mick........I just bought it to keep my ex Irish Army M20 company ....it's frame and engine numbers are 108770.....all the rivets might not add up on it either but I just ride the feckn things at every opportunity...which is often.....

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

Totally agree....there are bikes out there were only the frame is authentic...this RAF bike could well be one were all but the frame is authentic.... Who am I to judge what is more important.....I guess the guys who rode them in those days could not tell the difference..


Nice bikes btw....

email (option): maartenengels@hotmail.com

A set of correct knee rubbers would be a good idea I guess.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Probably those are correct for 1947? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

My M20 like most of them is made up from bits of lots of M20s and the front half of the frame is probably the only part of the bike that left the factory with this machine, this is true of most M20s still in service at the end of the war, the number I have painted on the tank matches the frame because that seems to be the most honest thing to paint there.

I love the history of these machines and like many WD machine owners I study every new picture that turns up hoping it may be my bike (frame anyway).

I ride my M20, not as much as I used to and not as much as some.

This is the hobby to me, I accept we are all different and we can all have our own way of doing it.

But..

When new enthusiasts buy a WD bike for several Thousands of hard earned cash, they come on this forum and their first question is usually, what year is my bike, when I park my M20 at a show or even at a petrol station that's what the public want to know. I would hate to have to explain why I didn't know in the case of a re stamped frame or that there were no dateable wartime components on my bike.

And there are quite a few WD motorcycle going around which were created by someone to con people out of their money, so an anything goes philosophy is at the very least unjust. Is it OK for example to buy post war bike paint it green or even worse a new India made Enfield, fit it with new Indian Girders and ride it in the Guinness World Record run in Normandy in 2019? I don't think so.

Just my opinion.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

I didn't know you are organising the GWR run in 2019 Rob? Well done for volunteering

But I do agree with your comments and Jimmy did ask for some.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

nice one Jimmy
i'll pop down and see it soon , cadge a cuppa !
i'll let you know the dates for the Carrigart show as soon as they tell me !
probably early july..

email (option): chris.astinbarker at btinternet.com

('And there are quite a few WD motorcycle going around which were created by someone to con people out of their money, so an anything goes philosophy is at the very least unjust.')

My advice to anyone buying a WD bike..or any bike for that matter, remains as it has always been...Do your homework before you buy the bike, not afterwards...

There is more information available today than there has ever been....

There are forums such as this, original publications and a lot of knowledgeable enthusiasts for any particular make/model...

To live in the hope that every seller is an 'honest john' is indeed a forlorn hope...Where there is money to be made there is a conman trying to make it and only knowledge saves the buyer from getting caught out...

To be honest I don't have much sympathy for anyone that buys a machine which is obviously not 'correct'...Buy in haste, pay for the mistake at your leisure... ....

Note that these are general comments and not aimed at the subject bike or its owner..I'm fairly sure he knows what he has bought...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

For sure Chris...........

Was a surprise to meet you in our big Irish ASDA store.....:-)

Hope you enjoyed Donegal....a mystical, magical place....my wheels have turned many times over and through it's myriad of lanes and boreens.....

We re-thatched at the end of last summer so the teabags will be dry now before they go into the pot...

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

The sweeping brush i have is wartime mind you it has had a few new shafts and new heads

For sure Ian...........

But it has all generated some great comments.... and a wee discussion too in the process....and that's what this site is all about.....

Enjoy it all....I do.........

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

Lively discussion is great, and the biggest arguments are usually the most balanced.

In the end you bought the bike knowing what it is, I did notice you labelled the thread "Off topic" and you will have great fun with it, maybe your way is better than mine.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk