Has anyone tried removing Ethanol? It looks simple enough, but I think these first kits are a bit expensive for simple plastic items.

http://www.ethanil.co.uk/?gclid=CNXIwdjHlcoCFeoJwwodYigDdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfZgDkRwAUk

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

My neighbour had told me how to do this, its a lot of trouble if you do high mileages and need lots of fuel.

But if you are laying a vehicle up for a while it could be an idea to run some cleaned fuel through before you leave it.

I can't see why you need to spend that much money, all you are doing is adding water to petrol, which combines with the ethanol so you can run of the pure petrol.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

My take on this is that the current ethanol removal kits are way too expensive to use routinely.......and in any case if you are running a bike regularly, a) you are unlikely to experience any major ethanol problems and b) even if you do (carb issues?), it is far cheaper to fix these than wrestle with fuel formula! If you are not using a bike regularly, then there appear to be additives to combat the effects of ethanol that are much more cost effective.

Come and live in Holland, we have about 60 petrol stations that serve Competition 102 petrol, no ethanol, and higher octane, bikes start better and run cooler. It's more expensive, but not too bad, I like it, especially for the winter when you don't use the bikes so much.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net

Where Lex, in Utrecht or surroundings
Hans

Hans WDM20 58764

Where Lex, in Utrecht or surroundings
Hans

email (option): menno_kraak@hotmail.com

If you really want to remove the ethanol by having it adsorb water the easy way to do it is with a diesel water filter.
as it is a physical gravity seperation it works better with a tall cantainer.
The down side of this method is it also removes a fair bit of the aromatics and these are exactly what we need to keep in as the aromatic portion is added to have enough vapourise in a cold motor to allow it to start.
So one you remove the ethanol your really should add acetone.

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Bedankt ! Dichtbij te vinden, had ik eerder moeten weten

Ja, tussen Woudenberg en Scherpenzeel, de pomp verst van de weg af, weet het ook pas 3 weken!

Lex

email (option): welbike@welbiXX.net

Lex Kunt u brink me een 250 liter vat als je naar Engeland . ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

So much fuss about something I've never thought about much!..

There must be something wrong with my bikes...I just fill them up at the pump and they run till the next time I fill them up... ...

With the ethanol content of the fuel in the UK at 5% and with some 10% available I don't think its an issue...

Use the bike as much as possible, if you know you are leaving it for long periods drain the fuel system and if you're really worried drain the system anyway a couple of times a year to remove any water build up....

No need at all to open a chemical plant..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Yes I must stop reading other peoples problems. I've just spent an hour or so running up some vehicles, Jeep, Morris, Bren Carrier, all with ancient fuel and apart from my Jeep the others haven't been fired up in months.

Mind you the fuel was probably from the old 5% Ethanol stocks and with 'Frosts Ethomix' added.

However, I think we are generally at 10% Ethanol across the board now and talk of E15 coming.

And I have personally seen damage done by E5 to fiberglass, Petseal, Rubber and solder

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

'And I have personally seen damage done by E5 to fiberglass, Petseal, Rubber and solder'

True..though I've not seen anything with solder personally...

There are replacements for the tank liners and ethanol resistant rubber pipe etc. and you can get a liner for fibre glass tanks as well if you need it..

There are also corrosion inhibitors already on the market...

Joe Rosson and others in the USA who have had E15 for some time didn't quote me any particular problems when I quizzed them about it...

There is also the fact that it is accepted by the 'powers that be' that there are limits to ethanol use...There simply isn't enough ground to grow the required crops to supply everyone..and there are rumbling about the toxic effects of it as well...

It may yet be that its use will ultimately be limited...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Depends on the polyester resin used in a GRP tank, some are effected more than others - also they are badly effected by any water.
Polyester lay-up is cheap - pure and simple!!!!

One solution is to use an epoxy resin when laying up the GRP, again a few variants, but all offer far better chemical resistance than polyester resins.

The majority of 'older' tank sealants are polyester resin with a thickening agent (fine glass strand or even mineral dust).
More recent 'mix's' are epoxy based - ask the question when you buy.

If you are coating a GRP tank, then certainly use only an epoxy sealer, polyester resin simply does not stick to hardened (+1-2 weeks old) polyester - even when mechanically keyed.
But Epoxy does happily stick to even aged (+10 year old) polyester GRP - but still you need to mechanically abrade and then clean with a solvent - acetone is good (also good to thin epoxy and clean your brushes)- never use petrol.

There are many inoculuous materials which have surprising effects - and i would have said that ethanol/methanol were pretty innocent .
One i have personal experience of is vegetable cooking oil - this stuff makes electrical pvc insulation very brittle within a few days, even at room temperature.
So no surprise when my Cuz started to have problems running veg oil in his land-rover - particularly with pipe work ....

All my old bikes have very few materials which can be effected by even 100% ethanol or methanol (fiber washers ?), so really i cannot understand what all the fuss is about - other than problems with fuels which have 'stood' in the carb/fuel-tank ?

email (option): welbike@welbXXX.net

Ian Wright

'And I have personally seen damage done by E5 to fiberglass, Petseal, Rubber and solder'

True..though I've not seen anything with solder personally...

...Ian

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

hello all,
yes there is a new range of special époxy resin who are develloped for the ethanol resist, simple époxy don't resist and hate water, and polyester very not resist to new fuel, i've make some tanks for little boats or go karts, and also a special tank for a Ford Thunderbird when i've got my shop, that i'm in the fiberglass work i ask a lot of profesionnal resin industry before find a good one, you could take it in a metal tank after cleaning it with heavy and hot degreasant soap, then you dry the tank with acetone take the professionnal one,not the commercial supermarket one that is dilued with water;-) the acetone absorb all the water and dry very quicly and evapore also the water!!, after that take your tank Under sun, and the non catalysed resin also, very impressive when the resin mix is in the tank it like water!! and go everywere!! ( you must turn slowly your tank in all direction like with tapox...but think i couldn't give a lesson on that époxy stick on on approx all material ( the strongest glues are époxy based)
in France we've got several problem with ethanol also, but like say Ian, if the bike or car run frequently there is no problems, but this bad thing eat all the rubber tubes, the gaskets and make a very bad chewing gum paste in the tank when it stay for a long time!!
maybe Lex could deliver some 102 with a fuel tanker truck

Arnaud - i too also made model boat and full-size boat hulls in the 1990's - tending to use epoxy rather that polyester as the bond with carbon fiber was much better.
i still have a few hulls which use polyester resin to make the fuel tanks (made in 1976-8) - they have never softened ?

For +20 years i was the R*D Manager for a company which made major equipment for the chemical industry, one of my jobs was looking at the chemical resistance of various materials, mainly metals, but also carbon-fiber reinforced products. Suddenly my hobby was of interest to management.
The chemical resistance of various bonding agents (adhesives) was very importent and i/we did much work on the various polymers used to laminate C/F.

Ethanol/Methanol is not a particularly destructive chemical - virtually all engineering metals are resistant as are many plastics (you use alchol to clean your computers !).
I dont have the data in front of me any more, but SOME polyester resigns are ethanol/water 'resistant' but ALL epoxy resins were complete uneffected by ethanol up to very high temperatures (+100degC).

Few polymer suppiers were able to give thier chemical resistance and even the manufacture's often didn not know with some solvents (?) so we'i had to carry out the test work.

Far, far more destructive is simple old water !
Most metals start to dissolve and react with water, even at room temperature, as for elevated temperatures ........
Although i have no measured evidence, i have always strongly suspected that it is the water absorbed by ethanol (ethanol/methanol are used to absorb water from pharmaceuticals) which does all the damage.

Never underestimate how destructive water is.

Yes
As far as metals are concerned, it is the ethanol / water mix that causes the grief.
First of all this mix is conductive allowing galvanic corrosion to occur.
So solder dissolves to protect the brass, zinc dissolves to protect iron and copper.
Then we get bacteria growing in this mix and eventually a secondary set of bacteria that grow in the excretia of the first bunch and it is this second set that are oxadizing and attack all metals, some just have less resistance than others.
We tend to forget that every metal wants to be an oxide and will revert back to the compound it was reduced from ini the first place given half a chance.
All metals are transitory and expecting them to stay as metal is an illusion.

Organic coumounds such as plastics , rubbers and resins are a different matter

email (option): bsansw1@tpg.com.au

Hi Nigel
agree with you, water is very destructive when combined with a degreasant like fuel, since i close my workshop last year ,i work in concrete molding in metal mold, and in rainy days we never make silicon join in mold, because water ( condensed) develop rust in only some hours ( and a very agressive one!!) silicon contain amoniac who is a hard degreasant combined with some heat it develop some condensation ( don't know if it's the good word in English ) and after some days of use the metal look like a first world war item found in the mud!!!think that why solder don't resist, it's a soft metal easy to corrode, in my shed i mold some lead parts for the batteries box i make, with silicon and let them dry for 2 week ( not necessary but no time to work on), when i open the mold, the original parts are blackened, and the copper parts also Under silicon are green and pitted!!!
same problem in a petrol tank or a carb, fuel is a degreasant, and water condensed mix with oxygen,it corrode all very very quickly!! very impresive!!
and for the résin quality the propriety of them change every years!! polyester of today is not the same that the 10 years old one, i work in fiber as a mold modeller since 95, try lot of things and restore lot of very old fiber parts from the 60', vynilester is also good for old petrol and resist very good with water but best today is époxy, heated in a oven to stabilise, work good and easy to use. but for a morris carb part not easy to do.
best way, maybe is to make is own raffinery with own spec and drill the garden to found petrol and that i don't have lot of time to work on my bikes!! and all are in basket cases appart my flea with his broken crankshaft rust developed with petrol is not now a problem!! but a very interesting problem
Arnaud

Vynil ester based Polymers, sound familiar - there is a cheaper polymer used on big boat hulls (i had a 38ft First - yacht) if i remember - lots of osmosis problems.

Yes there are many polymer products on the market, and i probably no longer current - but surprisingly few actual manufacture's. The base material tends to remain similar, its what been added, such as fillers, viscosifier's etc. which can effect chemical absorption.
E.g anything with a mineral filler (very very common) is not a good idea when holding liquids - particularly water (put a sample of hardened resin without a pigment or filler in water and watch it go milky as it absorbs ~2-3% water !!).

I/we did have the advantage in making the machines, which produced 60% of the world market of PVC/PTA/MAA/PP production - it did give us an inside track on information, much of which is propriety

The 'real' solution of course, is not to use any of the polymers and if your petrol tank leaks - repair it properly!!!

Brazing or even soldering is easy enough!

Failing that i've use 'PetroPatch' and metal filled Plastic-padding, with surprising long-term success, on steel and alloy fuel tanks !

Yes, the ONLY way is to refine the stuff yourself, not hard actually - depending on the crude stock used (we export our North-sea crude as it too 'good' for our refinery's - we import cheaper crude to made fuel oils).
And yes, from university i working for Shlumberger, in as Offshore-Drilling/Engineering Manager for 7 years ....