Hello All,
I'm now at the blissful stage with my 1941 G3L that I need to consider registering it. I know this is now thorny issue but any help, hints or clues would be appreciated.
Happy New Year
Richard

Firstly Richard you must obtain an official dating letter. This should be available from either the Matchless owners club, the VMCC, or the Military Vehicle Trust. You will probably have to supply rubbing's or good pictures of the frame/eng numbers

Get the bike insured on the frame number (no MOT or NOVA is required for your bike)

Apply on line to DVLA for the necessary application form and send it all to DVLA with the fee.

I find it doesn't hurt to copy and add the relevant page from the tables at the back of O&M with the dating letter as a backup.

I am one of the unofficial vehicle inspectors for the MVT, covering Dorset (and sometimes parts of Wilts, Hants, Devon)

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Don't hang about either...I hear more changes to the system for rebuilt/unregistered vehicles are in the pipeline and they don't sound good if you have no documentation...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Richard, I don't know how your bike has arrived at its present state but be really, really careful with the terminology that you use when contacting DVLA. They have developed their own vocabulary which appears to include modern interpretations of words which vehicle enthusiasts have used for the best part of a century.

Do not under any circumstances use the word 'rebuilt' - We use this word in the context of an 'engine rebuild' or to mean 'taken apart and put back together again' (some people even do it with the knackered parts !) However, in the case of DVLA, this is taken to mean that it comprises a lot of newly put together mis-matched parts...Quite how they arrive at this is a mystery.

They also use the definition 'reconstructed classics' and again this can cause difficulty. There is a very real risk now that if they feel the parts did not start life together, they will insist on the frame number being ground off and a DVLA 17 digit VIN being stamped in the place.

'My' one make club man is extremely worried about future cases with WD bikes (which were of course often mixed and matched before being sold off by the Government seventy years ago).

The best scenario is one where it can be shown that engine and frame etc. belong historically with each other...does your bike appear in the post-war 'Key Cards'?

The best advice is to do all your homework and research first - don't go off at half-cock with some ambiguity - it will be the devil's own job to recover from a refusal.

Be aware that there is a good chance that you will be visited by an inspector from a contracted company and he will not be very knowledgeable about old bikes - make his job as easy as possible by putting together a thorough dossier.

Hi Rik...I assume you read the piece in the Norton Owner Club magazine...

I was alerted to these up and coming changes by a friend who gave me his copy so I could read the article...

My reading is that at this stage the fine details of the new procedure have yet to be hammered out and I imagine as usual there will be unforeseen exceptions to the 'norm' that will have to be catered for...

Generally though, I think the new system may be more complicated (read difficult to deal with) and may present real problems for specials builders and others with bikes that don't quite match the DVLAs criteria or expectations..

It appears the accepted 'identity' of the machine is about to be expanded to include far more than just the frame...(number)

As you say, and a point that is most important, is it appears that under the proposed new rules terminology can be critical to the success of an application, so an understanding of what may be required by the DVLA and how they describe it will probably be essential before engaging with them......Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

This is new to me. Could one of you please send me a copy of this impending doom? I've got my EXP Enfield to deal with soon!

Cheers Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Nothings changed yet Ron..If your going at your usual speed it'll be on the road and having its first engine overhaul before the rules change... ....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Cheers Ian. I already have an MVT dating letter and am proposing to make an application in February, by which time the bike should be complete enough for photograph of a (near) completed bike......I hope this will be my last registration claim? Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I can post you the article tomorrow if you want it...It may not answer the key question of timescale though....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I suppose this is all happening because of all those "bitza bobber rubbish crap things" that people are selling on ebay recently.

Keith, it's actually been provoked because a one-make club has been confirming that 'Pur Sang' Type 35 Bugattis fitted with a second-hand bonnet catch are historic vehicles. This apparently annoyed one of the sports car clubs who were fed up with wrecking their original cars competing against tuned modern replicas...and they complained to DVLA. It is no longer possible to register replicas for road use - they'd need seat belts, crumple zones, emission control and all sorts.

There have also been known problems with coil sprung chassis under Landies and late-model BL minis becomming back-dated.

Bikes are pretty low down the list in the scheme of things but we are prone tpo mixing and matching....If DVLA are aware of the home built frames and invented flat tankers with ex-WD engines then they would probably regard it as being outside of the spirit of the original rulings.

One of the problems is their use of the word 'original' - does it mean 'original type' or 'fitted at the factory'.

Most of the info is on the website - just apply the worst possible interpretation.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-vehicles

How many 'rebuilt' bikes have the 'original' forks and who'd know ?...unfortunately, some factory ledgers can include forks and gearbox numbers....those involved at one-make club level are being asked to confirm that these parts are original...

The good thing is that they can't do much about vehicles that were registered at the time and have been legally modified at any time since (or in the future) - but the 'age-related' scheme is a privilege and they can withdraw it in the future if a vehicle is modified.

It ought to mean that unregistered bitsas become less valuable in the future.

RON - is that a confirmation that no MOT is required, just the self-certification ?

I'd better crack on with registering the 3HW then ..............

Yes Nige. No MOT is required on a vehicle manufactured before 1960. DVLA can call for a vehicle inspection at random though. However it's not any form of mechanical inspection, just to define the authenticity of your application.

I would provide photos of the bike and close ups of frame number etc.
However someone I met who is a registered dating officer went on a course at DVLA, and they stated that they didn't want to be inundated with too much complicated information. So just keep it concise but plain and simple and to the point....Is my advice. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

thanks RON.

Can you also confirm if a rear reflector is needed with a 'daytime mot' (for the b25) - i have been told but have reached 'why did come in this room' stage of my life ...............

I can't confirm that for sure Nige, you had best ask a tester. My guess would be yes! As I think even a push bike is supposed to have one Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

senior moment .... you do not need a reflector, i was advised to remove my reflector on the 1986 KDX so as to have no 'lighting' whatsoever.

Thanks everyone for your help and apologies for my tardy response.
The bike is a '41 G3L with the frame number 21090 and engine number 42326, this is I believe a second contract bike fitted with an earlier engine. According to the Matchless and AJS club (I'm a member) they only have post war records. However the "dating letter" I have says "records held by the club show..." so something isn't right here. The letter is dated 4th Oct 1987! There is also a MOT ticket from Sept 2002.
I'll get started asap with my application!
Happy New Year
Richard
ps. I'll put some pictures up when I work out how to do it.

Richard you may find that your letter is out of date for application purposes? The MVT verification officer has recently issued me with a dating letter for a WD Enfield and I'm sure he told me that it's valid for one year only. Best to get a new letter.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com