Hi All
Am slowly getting to grips with my "Barn Find" Beeza but I think the front guard is beyond redemption(several splits around the fork indents and 2 aluminium/pop rivet plate repairs). Has anybody bought an Indian replacement and if so was it any good. I have had a tank for my A7 and a set of guards for a pre war Sunbeam from India and they were not perfect but not too bad either. Also can anybody recommend a specialist to straighten my slightly bent forks.
Thoughts please.
Thanks
John

Can you show a picture, John ?
I would say most mudguards can be repaired. It must be really bad if it can't be used anymore.
My advise would be to take it to a proffesional. After all, it's an original part.

I agree with Mick on this. As part of a restoration, original parts are now scare enough to warrant saving where possible. The cost involved can be higher but we are then preserving the historical aspect.

Mudguards are more important in the lines of a bike than we sometimes realise. In fact when looking at indistinct wartime photos, the shape is often almost the only point of reference that allows a definite identification...All the WD makes were different and distinctive. The pattern parts makers haven't always understood this.

Worth saving the original if you can..particularly as there are no good pattern front mudguards other than the ones manufactured in Australia...Ian

Hi All
Thanks very much for the feedback on the front mudguard. Perhaps I was giving up on it too quickly. I have heard really good reports about Metal Magic doing this sort of repair so I will perhaps get them to see if they can do something with it. I totally agree about keeping original material.
Any views on good reasonably priced fork straighteners?
Thanks again
John

Terry at Metal Magic can indeed work wonders. His prices are reasonable too.

Forks are difficult. Many of us have had satisfactory dealings in the past with Jake Robbins but there have been suggestions that things have changed and there have been grumbles...without knowing both sides of the story it's difficult to know...

I'd try him again if I needed tube work on forks, but in the light of what others have said, it is perhaps difficult to give an unqualified recommendation.

I prefer to visit this type of small business and gain some sort of personal contact. It often helps if things threaten to de-rail.

Sorry, but would not go near Jake Robbins if the work was free! Just my opinion from my experience.

Did an awful job on mine and overpriced too. Ended up paying over 900 quid to get them back, so called refurbished. Rip off
Spent hours putting them right, wish I had just done it myself instead.
Forks do still turn up so keep your eyes open.
Metal magic have a great reputation but not used them myself but good luck with the build.
Darren

I'm sorry to say that even after having some good work done by Jake in the past I wouldn't send him any more forks myself...

I've also been involved in more than one persons problems emanating from that source...

Darrens forks, without avoiding the issue at all, were a complete bodge up and the work was carried out to such a low standard I'm amazed Jake had the nerve to charge anything for the job...

The forks were not rebuilt to a standard spec. and the correct parts weren't even used for much of the job...I supplied Darren with most of the parts he needed to turn them into a good useable set of forks (which was a fair bit)...Ian

OK chaps, this is all a bit worrying. Who do we suggest for tube work ?

Bushes, spindles etc. are not a problem, but I for one wouldn't fancy putting a set of girders under the 40 ton press at work.

I don't know of anyone currently that can handle girder fork repairs reliably...

Jake we've already discussed..

Percival Brothers and Webb generally seem to take a very long time to do anything due to their backlog of work (they say)...

They had my friends Matchless frame for 20 months and when he got it back it wasn't a good job...

I don't know if Ray Daniels is still in business..and if he is he's not having my M20 forks again.. ..

Anyone else know of a good fork repairer?....Ian

If you do a GOOGLE search for girder fork repair or restoration there are others who under take straightening girders apart from the three already mentioned,custom shops or builders also might be a source in this type of work.

Ray Daniels used to be my man for girder fork repairs, he has done me around 5 sets all at a very high standard including replacing tapered tubes. But i don't think he does this work now. I used to see him at the Stanford Hall jumble every year and you could tell he was clearing out. He still sells on eBay small fork items but i am sure he doe's not do any repairs now.
A real shame as i do not know anyone to trust with this sort of work. I have seen Jakes work and it's not good, Indian stuff keep well clear even if you are desperate they will only cause you problems or worse still cause an accident. All i can say is take your time and do as much of the work yourself.

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternat.com

Like Steve I did a Google search and came up with a couple of names...one was highly recommended by an Ariel Owners Club member...

That was Drive Products, Marford, near Wrexham...Mr. MacDougall...01244 570807 driveproducts@fsmail.net

I don't know the guy and have never dealt with him but I'm going to give him a ring next week to sound him out...Apparently he provides a full girder fork repair/refurbishment service....Ian

Ian,

Please keep us up to date on Mr MacDougall, i have neve heard of him but we need a good girder fork man!

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternat.com

Last email from Jake. "I won't let you down Henri"

After requesting another 1,250.00 $ and promising delivery two years ago it will be six years since initial order.

Comments from UK customers of his who stated that they received girders intended initially for US customers aggravate further.

At least the Indian reproducers stand head and shoulders over this kind of craftsman. Quality non existent in non delivery.

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com

Hi All
Update on Mr MacDougall @ Drive Products.
A very nice lady answered the number but tells me Drive Products has closed down. She has promised me she will try to contact Mr MacDougall to see if he is interested in fork repair work privately. Soon as I hear anything I will post it.
Regards
John

B******S!....I'll try Terry Mead in Kent in that case, he was the next on my list (of two)....Ian

Ian, if it's a case of just bushes/pins etc. Dave H. has done several for me......and Locksmith Graham.

In fact he's just extended these forks for me by adding an inch in the length. I don't think that he'd want to take this type of work on a regular basis, but you know how helpful he is. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi All
Have now spoken to Paul MacDonell in Wrexham and he no longer gets involved in fork restoration. He stopped 2 years ago as a result of sporadic work coming in.
Looks like its back to the drawing board or try the guys in Dudley.
Thanks for your ideas so far.
John

Hi John..Try Terry Mead (Kent)..01233 840323 .... allyson.mead@live.co.uk

...Ian

So thats now one of those chopper, bobber type Royal Enfields now!

Yes indeed Keith. It one of these 'Easy Riders' man! Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

I have no idea why this site chops off part of your picture. Especially after the most complicated way to post them. I'm thinking I won't bother with pictures in the future unless it can be sorted out properly. Ron.

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Don't worry Ron, clicking on the image lets us see the whole thing.

Has anyone ever used this chap :-

http://www.excelsiormanxman.co.uk/index.php/about-us

He says that he makes new forks for Velo and Excelsior...

Would he contemplate lesser makes ?

It's not that I need someone at the moment, but the thought of a low-speed 'off' with bent forks not being repairable does concern me.

When 'Googling', I came across an advert for a Scottish MOT garage that specialises on older stuff...

"Girder Fork Bushes
On a modern bike with one set of fork bushes the play is minimal. On girder forks however, there may be four sets of bushes. When the same amount of permissible play in each bush is measured it's not uncommon to have half an inch of play at the front wheel. "

Am I reading this correctly ? Half a bloody inch of play at the wheel ! If he doesn't mind, I'll pass on a test ride on that one....

ALL I NEED TO SAY ON THIS SUBJECT IS STAY AWAY FROM JAKE STILL NO FORKS OR REFUND STAY AWAY NO BULL S##T AND I HOPE HE SEES THIS. LOTS OF $$$$$ LOST.

Cheers Steven in Canada only my opinion

email (option): goodbell@ripnet.com

Hi All
Spoke to Terry Mead this afternoon. Seems very helpful. Happy to look at my problem and thinks he can help with minor straightening(which I think I need)but not happy if tube replacement etc, is needed on girders. So looks like I may have a result.
Thanks for everybody's input on this one. How did we manage before forums and Ebay!!!
Regards
John

How we managed, John ?
Well, we just bought another set of forks ! Wich were readily availible back then.
No seriously, i remember my front wheel was leading a life of its own before i replaced the bushes. Made a world of difference.
My forks are also sligtly bent, but the bike runs OK. Can even ride without touching the handlebars !

I'm so glad I read this thread re fork refurbs. Extremely worrying about poor standards of engineering. Let alone multi year delays & wrong stuff being sent out. I had a similar experience with the tank doctor refurb that took 2 years & was sent a different tank to the one I sent them. Never again.
Terry Mead made me a good replica BSA SA race frame quite some years ago, of course that's a big jig with big tubes. I would think he's got a lot of bending / straightening experience. Retubing girders seems pretty complicated to me, let alone fine tapered tubes. I can see that Terry or very many engineers wouldn't take it on. The shortage of reliable girder fork repairers is certainly a concern. Where do we go?!
It would be nice to know how old threads like this are as to whether the info was new or way out of date. RJ 14/11/21:slightly_smiling_face:

I'm so glad I read this thread re fork refurbs. Extremely worrying about poor standards of engineering. Let alone multi year delays & wrong stuff being sent out. I had a similar experience with the tank doctor refurb that took 2 years & was sent a different tank to the one I sent them. Never again.
Terry Mead made me a good replica BSA SA race frame quite some years ago, of course that's a big jig with big tubes. I would think he's got a lot of bending / straightening experience. Retubing girders seems pretty complicated to me, let alone fine tapered tubes. I can see that Terry or very many engineers wouldn't take it on. The shortage of reliable girder fork repairers is certainly a concern. Where do we go?!
It would be nice to know how old threads like this are as to whether the info was new or way out of date. RJ 14/11/21:slightly_smiling_face:

Sorry for the double post folks;
I came to the thread on my phone, which shows no dates at all. In my keen-ness to respond, I didn't recall that the full website had dates on posts.
Secondly - both times when I attempted to post from my phone, I got a message saying something like "you have failed the captcha security" & when I clicked back, "form resubmission failed", then "you have made too many posts" (even after only making one!) Obviously some technical issue with the phone version...
Secondly - :smiley:

It is a great shame that the previously well regarded repairers have retired, ceased trading, or worse, lost the plot re. quality etc.
Has anyone any more recent experience?
Mark at PES is on the way with his decent looking replacement parts / rep forks, I can't imagine he would want start taking on anyone's badly pitted & paper thin, rusted taper tube blades for repair either. It really is is a tough one to solve.
If the options really were / are as limited as has been suggested... I'm pretty confident with engines & gearboxes but girders are tricky.
I would at a push, probably be able to clean out my spindle bores & at a further push, attempt fitting bushes, even if they were the reputedly shorter life oilite type. With my dubious lathe skills & my ancient worn out lathe I would struggle to make accurate bronze bushes to size. I don't have specialised long line reamers to hone true after fitting. I also have absolutely no formal engineering training. The number of mistakes I could make doesn't bear thinking about! With current time in the shed constraints it could also take me absolutely ages.

Re. "simple" straightening, currently ABBA engineering (I don't know them) straighten frames & forks & claim to be able to straighten girders.
Kingpin Components have a basic guide on their site to DIY re-bushing. Don't know if they take the work on themselves. I waited a long time for a sprocket from them. Means they're very busy I guess with more lucrative work...
RJ

In the absence of a girder fork specialist the first thing is to get the forks straightened...Once straight they can be assessed regarding wear of the link pins, bushes etc. These are machining jobs and as long as you can provide the necessary information there are toolrooms/machine shops that will take on bush manufacture etc. etc.... It's best to find somewhere in your area that you can visit to show them what you have and to explain to them what you want...
Lots of these places like small 'cash jobs'...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Things move slowly, especially as there are no guaranteed funds at the end. Fork bushes we now make and stock. We do use oilite material for some applications, but I think it's too soft for the link bushes.
As time moves on more parts will be made. Once I have produced the castings it would be possible to look at repairs, though if all the tubes needed replacing I expect new would be cheaper.
And again with fitting and finishing the bushes we should be able to do them now. Once I start fitting the bushes to my fork parts I will produce tooling to reduce production costs. So tooling may be for sale and also a bush replacement service at a fixed price.
BTW I wouldn't dream of reaming the bushes, line honing always gives better longer lasting results.

A little more progress to report. The link pins are now ground, so I should be able to try fitting some soon to the links.

email (option): pes.sales@btconnect.com

Thanks Ian, that is certainly what I do for precision jobs.
I used to have a brilliant Vickers trained guy local to me who could do anything from his well equipped home workshop but unfortunately now moved away & long retired. He was very good in modifying a race crank & also rebushed a set of M20 girders, among many other small jobs. He had all sorts of interesting stuff turn up on his benches.

The local precision engineer I use now is quite amenable to take on specific machining tasks - he does prefer drawings &/or specific details. Not just a box of bits & a "can you fix these please", as he is not a bike man.
Over the years I have also found other local engineers to be helpful for bits & bobs, although there are fewer of them these days. I think the vintage machinery element appeals to some, even if many have no knowledge of motorcycles.
Providing I have the tools, sometimes I just have a go myself - do a lot of reading, focus on not ruining a anything irreplaceable, take as much care as possible. Over time my welding has improved & I can turn simple stuff; spacers, bushes, footrests etc but the lathe is ancient & worn out of true so is a bit of a pain for really accurate work.
Obviously tooling can be expensive for one off jobs.

Marks reply immediately showed I didn't know what I was talking about! :joy: I'm sure reamer is a word I have seen used re. girders, possibly folk being casual with language. Other than a large bore hone & have never seen another, let alone one small enough to fit in some girder bushes!

Hello john.....reference repro mudguards...I purchased a front and rear pair from "royal spares" in india about 8 months ago... they were the only place I could find that did a "ribbed" rear mudguard too!!!..(the pair I had on my bike when purchased were absolutely shot away and incorrect for the bike anyway!!)....I must say I've only fitted the front so far but it's well made and sturdy as anything!! The fork " cutout" is very slightly "off" but you've got to look hard to notice!? ..I havnt fitted the rear yet so cant comment on fitting accuracy,but it looks well made too!! The only slight issue is where the rear section of the guard fits on could be a bit better but nothing an hour or so of fettling cant resolve!!??...to be honest I've had crap experiences with a few indian parts (and wont touch them with a barge pole generally!) but in this rare instance I'm happy with the end result!....if reasonably priced originals turn up I may replace them (?) but it keeps the machine on the road for now!!.....also, they came with a rear number plate too which looks the part and I may use on another project!!??.....have a peruse on their site and see what you think?..if you want me to send you a couple of photos email me your WhatsApp details and I'll send them to you!..I cant work out how to send pictures on this email thingy,,?😆 pip pip Shaun

email (option): jacko1977pfc@gmail.com

From an engineers point of view, honing fork bushes might be better, but I've only ever read/heard/seen them "Line Reamed":thinking_face: Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

That's good enough for me Ron!
I guess if you have a choice of hones & reamers in a well equipped pro shop then you go for the best option.
I have a few reamers but nothing long enough to go right across the forks & none I could fix a guide rod to. A jig on my old bench press where I could line the bush bores up with a rod, & then flip over to the other side might be possible. I need to confirm the chuck is running at 90 degrees to the table as I've not yet used it for anything much beyond drilling holes in thin plate.
As Ian said, they need to be straight to start with.

Re. mudguards, I've often found mudguards need fettling to fit, rears more than fronts.
I got an alu' tank from India a few years back (not M20) & for the money it was pretty good, not perfect by any means but passed muster - no adverse comments, I have a theory that feedback to the makers is worth trying if something is not quite right, like out of line fork indents or whatever. Tell them the correct measurements (if you are sure of them - it helps to have an original).
Otherwise it's no good us complaining of poor quality & how can they ever get any better?
Also I've had a few "poorly made in the UK" parts over the years; copies of copies, & plenty you buy here now was made abroad anyway.

FWIW I use 85:5:5:5 for the girder bushes I made up a decade ago & probably should be replaced around now but having ridden the bike for 35 years I am quite at home with the less than perfect fame geometry.
Then again I use 85:5:5:5 in most places as it is a "good enough " material for everything on any BSA apart from valve guides
I just used an adjustable reamer, hand held from each side to do the bushes.
Probably was a bit crocked but it works well enough.
Remember these bikes were designed to be pulled apart with ittle more than the proverbial flattened out shell casing.
We forget some times that they were obsolete 1920's engineering from new and do not require space shuttle accuracy in order to run reliabily.
Now there is no reason not to ream them parallel to withing a few seconds or 1/10th of a thou if you like but to all extents & purposes the average rider would not feel much in the way of a difference .

Hi Ian,

Terry Mead built a frame for me for a race bike. All I had were the drawings. He made a lovely job of it. Good quality and reasonable price. He has (had) a waiting list though.

Regards

Tony.

email (option): tony-wilkinson@sky.com