Saw this on Donedeal..........

http://www.donedeal.co.uk/vintagebikes-for-sale/c1943-bsa-wm20/10744275?offset=9

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagebikes-for-sale/bsa-b31-engine/10744597

And this as well...........

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

Hi Jimmy, I think he would be better off sticking that frame and forks back in the gap in the hedge that it came from.And you wouldn't have to worry about changing the oil, if you fitted either of those "total loss" oil tanks

For sure Mick.......
Would make a good feature at one of those roundabouts in Donegal......

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

oversall looking at whats there, someone got a bit of a bargain at the price, in relative terms a thousand pounds may get you a bantam now, the bits need work but nothing that cant be done, with the price of wd bits now it would turn a profit as parts at the price and restoration for sale is worth doing with the margin in it after work.

the days of oily project bikes coming out of sheds is pretty much over, this is where the market is as to things coming out of sheds now.

Looks like WM20 106118 or possibly 106418, do any of our Irish experts have any info on this one?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Hi Rob, I've had a look through the list that I have and that frame number does not appear as an Irish army bike but there maybe a few gaps in my list, there are a few numbers in the WM20 106 thousand range , but not many. J.O'Brien may have something from his research. The parts have gone off the DoneDeal site now and are sold. Maybe it may surface again and we can get more info on the engines that were in the stash.

Hi everyone
It was me who brought it, your comments made me laugh, see my other post with regards to help for barn find wdm20. I know zip about the m20 but have had bikes since i was 10 so know my way around a socket set.
Here is a bit of info for those that are interested.
Whilst at a glance it looks really poor, under closer inspection none of the parts need replacing, only the missing parts.
One oil tank is a bit holey alright but iv yet to see one with two so the other one will go on it. The only other bit of welding required is a hole in the chain guard and a stress crack in a mudguard.
some bit's need straightening including the tank which at the front looks like it was hit by shrapnel and straightened out buy cutting a hole in the bottom and then being welded up again.
Even the exhaust can be reused though the silencer looks like it was used as a chock for a tank.(no holes!)
The larger parts missing include the headlight assembly, seat assembly, rear portion of the rear mudguard/number plate bash plate.

It looks like it was stripped down, paint and all and then left to go rusty, The wd engine is not a match number wise but not far off, ill go out to the shed and find it for you if you need it for your records, the other engine is a civy one, but complete and good to have.

I don't have deep pockets so buying something with some paint on it is a bit out of the question, it is an in joke within my family about the piles i buy.
I have no doubt it will be restored all by me back to factory spec over time, the only things i cant do is the big end and the rebore if it needs one. When im doing this i will need info about plating type for bolts etc and correct colour schemes. so you will see me on here from time to time as i get to these points.

Im going to build it up over the weekend so i can do a before resto pic, ill put it up on here for you guys to laugh into your sleeves over!!!!

regards Grahame

ps would love to know any information i can about the history if anyone has any.

email (option): packagingmuseum@gmail.com

Grahame, pinning down the history is likely to be difficult. During 1939 / early 1940, the Irish Department of Defence bought a considerable quantity of M20s direct from BSA and these are shown as such in the factory records.

Unfortunately, in terms of the later machines, there are no surviving factory records and the Irish Government seem to have been supplied with a quantity of WM20s which had been contracted to the British War Department and were probably new reserve stock from RAOC Chilwell. These don't seem to be as well documented, but if anyone can find anything in the Irish records for you, it will be the Mick Walsh / John O'Brien team.

WM20 106418 would have been delivered to the War Department under contract S5209 which was scheduled to commence in July 1944 but the following contract didn't actually start until May 1945 which implies a later build than originally planned. It would have displayed the WD serial / census number C5547118.

There is a well-known factory illustration showing machines from later in the contract going down the production line. This looks to be C5554820 and is factory fitted with panniers, pillion equipment and the Vokes tank-top air filter.

I do not have information as to whether the entire contract was fitted with filters - by later in the contract (March / April 1945), it was becoming clear that no more vehicles would be needed for the campaign in NW Europe and they were equipped and stockpiled for the Far East. Fortunately, the war against Japan ended sooner than expected which probably accounts for the considerable numbers of motorcycles available for supply to other states after VJ Day.



It could be of course that the bike was simply a post-war surplus sale to the civilian market, either in the UK or Ireland.

Hi Rik
Thank you very much for that information, at least if i cant find any more out i can use the number you provided, for the tank. Which is a cut out tank, I did think it a bit odd that the Irish army needed a volkes tank filter(there being a distinct lack of desert over here!)
Its great that records like yours exist, and the picture is brilliant, you never know the chaps in the picture might have even built mine.
Thanks again
Grahame

email (option): packagingmuseum@gmail.com

H Graeme

Been away with work but will check my data tomorrow night

My bike is from same contract as yours but would appreciate you sharing the the serial no's for the register project

Where in Ireland are you located ?

Jo'b

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi Graeme

The other material I have is related to reg no's only - these I obtained in Dublin at the archives

Archive material I have seen to date only records registration & not associated frame no

the batch of just over 500 bikes arrived in Ireland in 1946 - this ties in with long term storage after the war

These were normally broken down & shipped in transport crates - being re-assembled agin in Dublin prior to hand over to the military

There are very significant gaps in frame/reg no between archives & Dublin city council - it's really unfortunate

Job

email (option): Jonnyob1@googlemail.com

Hi John
Thank you for taking your time to look at your records, It is a pity that the council records are incomplete. I wonder if the army have records of machines that they owned. I know someone in the army who maybe able to ask questions to the right person, next time i see them i will ask.

I was chatting to a guy i know about the army's use of the m20 as i recalled that he had one as a lad, it turns out that his father was a dispatch rider for the Irish army when these machines were in service and when they came to the end of it. He said that his father wanted to save them and repair and sell them on to the public, he did this with a few but his mother was displeased with the amount of time he was spending in the garage so it didn't go any further and allot were just destroyed.

It is good to learn that my machine was in the Irish army even if i cant retain the original registration number for now, and we know that it was at least commissioned for the war effort even if it more than likely didn't see any action.

I will email as to where i am and post up here shortly the engine number for the records, Just out of interest how complete do you believe the records are? of 126,000 there does not appear to be allot left!

regards Grahame

email (option): packagingmuseum@gmail.com

hi grahame,
whereabouts are you ?
theres a few of us with irish army bikes now ?

chris

email (option): chris dot astinbarker at bt internet dot com

Rik
Would it be the case that my ex Irish Army M20....frame/engine number 108770... be part of the S5209 Contract...
And is there any possibility of letting me know the c number for this machine....
Many thanks
Jimmy
Co Tyrone

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

Jimmy,

Frame / engine number 108770 is indeed a contract S/5209 number. The checksum for this contract is 5440700, which means that the British Army census number was (108770 + 5440700), or "C5549470".

Regards,
Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

Jan
Thank you so much for the information, duly noted.....
great stuff altogether...
much appreciated...
Jimmy

email (option): jmmycmullen@aol.com

I guess you know these photographs with numbers "close" to yours?





Jan

email (option): wd.register@gmail.com

It's everybody's dream to see their bike in an old picture.....

Some day....

Hi Everyone
My apologies for the delayed response i have had the bike together for a week or two now, and there should be a couple of pic's of it below. Try not to laugh to much

The engine in the frame is the 1948 one, the wd one is apart and not worth the effort of assembly for the pic's. The number of this engine is wm20 107649

I have been searching around and found some further pictures of the Irish army on m20's with their British numbers on them and others without(just the reg number) and some great ones of them using them in the tattoo. If you want i can put these up on here. I have also asked an ex army chap to ask around to see if there are any military machine service records that could tie up frame numbers to reg numbers.

regards Grahame

They look like Triumph or Matchless handlebars...You'll have some good 'before and after' pictures one day!...Ian

Hi Grahame,
From my list of ZD reg numbers your engine WM20 107649 would have been ZD 4319, the engine and frame numbers would usually match when they were originaly registered. The library in Pierce St holds all the original Dublin Corpo. Registration ledgers and they can be viewed. The military archive in Cathal Bruagha barracks, Rathmine, have the army records. Unfortunately the later BSA WM20's are not as well recorded as the earlier ones, but there is some info.
My own WM20 is ZD 4398, probably from the same batch as yours.

I was not able to find your frame number on my list to try and work out it's reg number.
Mike

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com

Hi Mick
Thanks for looking that up and for the further locations of archive material.Great to hear that there are a few of the batch still around, How many do you know of?
I will private message you about how to possibly go about the claiming of the registration number.

Would you by any chance know if the bike on the right hand side of this image below still exists, the zd number seems to be ZD 19(1?)0. I am asking as this is a pic of a friends father who was a DR and a Tattoo rider and he would love find it.

Regards Grahame

Hi Grahame, I make the bike on the right of the picture as ZD 1910 = WM20 4422.

email (option): mickwalsh57@gmail.com