These two lens apertures are NOS ex military stock, the one on the left has a dark blood red plastic lens, the one on the right has a much lighter glass lens which has a bevel cut finish ( makes a bunch of triangles). My question is this, I have seen early MT 110's with the dark blood red glass but not this light colored one. I always assumed it to be early, is it???


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I wonder if 'black out' regulations determine the date of these?

I would expect the lighter, diamond lensing would give a brighter more diffused (less directional) light?

I do tend to always go for the lighter/diamond ones - on the basis they are more visible for night rides (i always add pushbike battery LEDs lights for same reason).

The 'diamond cut' lenses are common on 30s bikes and I have always considered them an 'early' feature on that basis...

I don't recall ever seeing that style on a post war lamp/reflector..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

isn't the diamond patterned one made of plastic and postwar?

The rear lamp for my 1918 Model K is 'diamond cut'...

The size of the 'cuts' on these lamps are much larger than those found on post war reflectors etc....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Sam, there may be a clue in the inside colour of the lamp body.

This is my KG No.3 finished MT110 which is almost certainly late 1939 together with the rest of the bike.

Lens feels 'cold' and seems to be glass. It is smooth on the outside but has the moulded facets on the inner face.

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It's fairly dark to look at from the outside. There may well have been more than two types. The only sort that would look really 'wrong' are the very late production plastic lensed type. I suspect that these were made as spares into the late 1950s.

Thanks guys, I'm pretty much convinced it's early. Rik, it's identical to yours, the lens is glass and the beveling is on the inside, the outside is smooth. I'm also curious about the color finish of the body. It's sort of a flat grayish black color, as are the ones with the plastic lenses. It almost looks like the "parkerised" finish on some firearms. Anyone know what color these were when supplied from Lucas to the bike manufacturers? Were they painted the color of the bike or left the blackish color when the bike left the factory?

Certainly pre-war, they were listed as 'Service Green' and it is clear that mine was painted Khaki Green before attachment of the window etc.

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I'd think it quite likely that Lucas discontinued their 'service colour' production lines with the cessation of hostilities and that any supplied as spares after 1945 would have been in standard civilian finish, i.e. black enamelled.

Here's a page from an early Matchless spares list contract C2073 which seems to indicate that they should be painted the same colour as the bike, and I think Rik's original light proves that Lucas supplied them already painted in the correct colour, there is no black under the KG3.

There are quite a few NOS parts floating around painted black like speedo drives for example which are almost definitely post war so it has to be very possible that these black rear lights are too.

Samuel was there any packaging with them?

Rob

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email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Also to note,that these MT110's and number plates would have been deleted at some fairly early stage during the war, to be replaced by the standard 'fag end lamp' and then reinstated at the end of the war. I have a few MT110's in my collection and there are a few variations. I just always feel lucky to find an original......whatever style it is

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Supplied in 'Stone' as well according to Robs list...Lucas batteries were also supplied in desert colour...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Rob, no packaging per say, other than an old cardboard box, however, some of the lamps did have tags, two types. see photos. There were 2 glass ones in the lot. Also, your list as Ian points out states some of them were supplier in "stone" could this be the finish on mine?


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For 'Stone' think of Sand stone...A sand coloured beige rather than a grey...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

The colour "Stone" as I understand it was a desert colour.

The red card label could be post war but even if it was it wouldn't prove the parts weren't earlier, there was quite a bit of inspecting and repackaging of parts going on.

I have found a reference in the Chilwell VAOS parts list from November 1943.
Interestingly the rear section was no longer available as a spare part, you had no choice than to fit a complete later "MCT1" lamp if you lost it, but the fronts were still available. No colour is mentioned but at this time the standard vehicle colour was SCC2 Brown and Lucas would have been applying this to all components, however they may have considered it inappropriate to supply brown parts to an early motorcycle in KG3 and painted them black? in which case your parts could date from this time, but that is pure guesswork.

Also this list says "Lamp, tail, complete-(2 off)", I don't think you would fit two lamps to a motorcycle so perhaps they were also used on the back of staff cars or trucks, in which case your lamp fronts may not be motorcycle at all?

Rob

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email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Did the WD tail lamp housing have a "license plate" window or was that a civilian-only feature?

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

They all came with the number plate illumination. There was a special thin card blackout mask issued which was fitted rolled up in the lamp unit.

Prior to September 1939, British Army vehicles were subject to the Road Traffic act in the normal way (although oddly they didn't have illuminated speedos which they should have...)

Presumably by the time they had thought about deleting the window, they were already developing the 'fag end' rear lamps.

Well, that settles it, they're all limited edition Brough Superior SS 100, worth a fortune I would say!

They probably are correct for a late 30s Brough, stick one on ebay with that as a description and see what happens.

I have 1 and a half black MT110s, probably all copies, I'm going to repaint them green for two of my bikes.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk