Questions? Looking for parts? Parts for sale? or just for a chat,

The WD Motorcycle forum

WD Motorcycle forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
Dreamers

I think the world has gone mad, or full of dreamers take a look at this on e-bay,
261805304027

Dream on matey.

TTJohn

email (option): Jomichael@aol.com

Re: Dreamers

I've been watching this on eBay, this is its 2nd run with no bids
Sanity s prevailing ....So far !

191538740785
Cheers Stu

Re: Dreamers

This one is even better 221699669467

email (option): cruiserchooser@hotmail.co.uk

Re: Dreamers

I suspect the M20 vendor is trying to recoup the cost of restoration, and his price seems reasonable with that in mind. Which is why you have to be kidding yourself that restoration will ever make you money unless the bike is really special and/ or you find a mug. I have done quite well money-wise on a few bikes that I bought cheap and could be "flipped on" for a healthy profit after spending modestly to get them running and looking OK rather than being restored. However, my "keepers" are not investments ( but don't tell my wife!).........at least not in my lifetime. But that's not the point.

email (option): Fergusanckorn@icloud.com

Re: Dreamers

Keep it up, keeps me smiling.

FERG - absolutely, buying cheap is the key - I'm in same boat with my wife and 'investments'.
But she does like a ride out on the old bikes .... keeping both happy.

Re: Dreamers

Fully restored my arse...

I get fed up with people trying to pass of poor restorations as if they have poured their heart and soul (and bank balance) into them when that is plainly not so....

I would say you won't make money from a FULL restoration if you factor in labour costs and other 'hidden costs' apart from the actual components used...

On a components only basis you can make money if the purchase price is right...ie cheap enough...I've done it numerous times...

Most bikes on the market haven't had any labour or 'hidden costs' factored in...and the ones to find are the ones that haven't even had all the component cost calculated either...

People will often knowingly sell at a loss to get onto or perhaps fund the next project....or to get rid of an unfinished project...

The bike in question here hasn't been 'fully restored' as described..That is obvious...It also has a fair number of incorrect/missing parts...

IMO this bike has been put together not particularly well at moderate cost and the owner is 'trying it on'....

'Fully restored' as a description should indicate that every part has been repaired, refinished and/or replaced and the whole machine bought up to as near perfect condition as possible...

That is why truly fully restored machines can fetch the money they do...

I've 'restored' bikes which were as good as that one when I started.... ...

I agree with TT John..The seller is a dreamer..or at least a chancer and I hope no one is ill informed enough to buy the bike at that price...

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Dreamers

Or, if this is trully indicative of today's prices, in the words of Daffy Duck: "I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm independently wealthy!"

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

Re: Dreamers

Ian, what a cynical old sod you are! OK, you may well be correct, but reading the eBay description again, another possibility is that this guy has spent an arm and a leg to do not a very good job! Not everyone is as knowledgeable as you and many of the people who post on here........indeed, most folk into bikes are pretty ham fisted and inexpert and I would not exclude myself from this great unwashed! I hope I am learning, but as a motorcycle expert, I make a good geologist. Just after I had bought my WDG3L in 2003, I bought a set of pannier frames off Pat Gill which he delivered in person, so had a chance to check over what I had bought. Well that was an education! even though Pat was kinder on me and the bike than I deserved. But at least back then AMC bikes were still cheap, so I had not overpaid, although I had certainly bought a whole heap of work to do to turn it back into a WD bike. Anyhow, my plea is, be kind to us idiots.

email (option): Fergusanckorn@icloud.com

Re: Dreamers

I tend to think I am a realist rather than a cynic...

The level of skills and knowledge applied varies throughout this hobby...

I have never forgotten I had the benefit of a formal engineering training to help me along in my chosen hobby...

I absolutely would not criticise anyone only because I felt they might know less than me or not have the same skill set...

I'm also well aware that there are many who could leave me in the shade in terms of both education and skills...I've worked with quite a number of those!... ...

I would only class my own abilities as about 'average'...

I just wish people would 'call a spade a spade' and at least try to apply some honest criteria when considering whether something is good, bad or indifferent....

There are plenty of bikes in all those categories that should serve as examples of what to expect....


If you look at the recent postings showing Nortons restored by a number of forum members the standard of restorations displayed far exceeds that of the M20 that is the subject of this posting...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Dreamers

My greatest fear is that I should die and my wife sells my bike and my guns for what I told her I have into them! :-)

Re: Dreamers

The original and unrestored WD Flea I recently bought was a case in question........

I looked and considered the purchase price - v - the parts that were present (and how much they would cost to replace/find), the bike's rarity, the fact that it was unrestored (apart from post-war civilianisation) and the overall mechanical condition..........plus, the cost of the restoration and the final value once completed and I was quids in in profit (although this hobby and interest is hopefully never about the latter).............

Never intended to buy another bike, but when a real bargain comes along sometimes you have to work things out against multiple other factors............cash sitting in the bank earning a pittance or invest in more classic machinery that, arguably, with minimal effort, will double your investment for x-number of years until you are gone...........in this instance, a no-brainer.............

Re: Dreamers

LOL! Well said Samuel. Every seasoned married man makes a 75% reduction in the cost of important items when reporting purchases to the wife.....just common sense for God sakes!

email (option): Wingco40@hotmail.com

Re: Dreamers

Dont forget some people only list a bike to keep the wife happy so we can pick up another bike.I hope the wife does not see this LOL

email (option): goodbell@ripnet.com

Re: Dreamers

Talk of which... why are you selling your 16H..?

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Dreamers

Hi Horror,
I am looking at a 192s norton 16h

email (option): goodbell@ripnet.com

Re: Dreamers

Ak ok, that sounds interesting

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Dreamers

Sadly, the only way to make a profit from old motorcycles is to pull them down and sell the parts on Ebay or such. Any attempt at restoring, repairing, renovating will end up as a financial loss. Once one understands this, restoring a motorcycle becomes a lot more enjoyable...

email (option): cas.vanderwoude@gmail.com

Re: Dreamers

My wish is to keep the old ones running. One day someone will want to keep me running

email (option): goodbell@ripnet.com

Re: Dreamers

I've had more fun, entertainment and education from my old bikes than I could put a price on...and why shouldn't a hobby cost money ?

I'd quite fancy a flat tank Norton too, but I can't afford one and I don't think that I'd swap the WD16H or even my Commando for one. Too much of me has gone into them and they've been part of my life for too long.

Re: Dreamers

I don't really care about my bikes perceived value or their 'investment potential'...and I don't worry about how much money I've spent in relation to the final value, whatever that may be...

I have old bikes because I like building and riding them..not for any other reason...

I'm always striving to build each bike to a higher standard than the last one and that is a strategy that is bound to cost a lot of money...

Some of my projects, such as the sprinter have absorbed a lot of cash I'll never see again...

However, worry about that and nothing that isn't a 'sound investment' would ever get built...How sad is that?....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Dreamers

I was lucky enough to be given my BSA by my Dad but it's cost quite a bit of money so far, particularly in stripping it and sandblasting. Unfortunately I'm not mechanically minded so I have no choice but to pay someone to do it for me. It's mostly complete and I've been able to find most things so far. I'm realistic and know it will probably cost more to restore than what it's worth. I don't care as I love my bike and it deserves to be restored to its former glory.

email (option): carlamports@gmail.com

Re: Dreamers

Carla Phillips
I don't care as I love my bike and it deserves to be restored to its former glory.[/quote]

My sentiments exactly Carla!! I hope it all goes well and you're on the road soon..

email (option): ian(at)integsci.com

Re: Dreamers

I hope so. I'm holding out all hope to have it back by the end of the year

Re: Dreamers

Carla, I am helping a young lady with parts for this. Likewise she has only ridden modern bikes and entrusted the restoration to her mechanic. Not only will she have to contend with an extra 133cc over you, she will also have to learn to handle the very heavy side car in the back ground that goes with this outfit.
Her mechanic hasn't started the work yet, but she is hoping to take the outfit to Dunkirk in May to carry a veteran soldier........For that reason I think she falls well into this thread headed 'DREAMERS' Ron

%%htmlItem_1%%

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Dreamers

Ron, what model is this bike?

email (option): carlamports@gmail.com

Re: Dreamers

Her mechanic might be like you Ron..If he starts now it will be ready before Easter... ...

Carla...It's a Norton 'Big 4'...633cc ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: Dreamers

Yes Carla, as Ian says, a Norton Big 4. Built up till 1942 when the US Jeeps were supplied to us under the 'Lend Lease' scheme and took over as our light reconnaissance vehicle. It was our only official attempt at an outfit with side car wheel drive. Very basic and not a patch on the German equivalents. Here is mine which has been a work in progress for many years. Ron
%%htmlItem_1%%

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Dreamers

That's a fantastic find. If they forget about restoring it for the moment, it could be made to be mechanically sound by May. I hope the veteran has a back-up plan, it won't go far with that big hole in the tank

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Dreamers

I thought you was a Norton buff Horror? All WD Big 4's have that hole. It's to enable you to get to the spark plug on the taller engine. The hole is hidden behind the knee grip.

I agree it could possibly be got going by May. Neither myself or the mechanic have any idea of it's mechanical state. But at the very least, I would think the mag needs to be sent off for overhaul. Plus I am having parts manufactured which will take a few weeks and narrow the time down. Also as far as I know, she wants it repainted.

I do think it would be a shame to miss the opportunity of giving a Dunkirk veteran a ride. I just think it should have been started some time ago. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: Dreamers

Always learning something new Ron, I've never seen that before not being lucky enough to have a Big 4. I'll know a B4 tank if I see one now

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: Dreamers

Love it, Ron! Very cool ☺

email (option): carlamports@gmail.com

Re: Dreamers

Hmm same thing - re B4 tank, didn't know.

an earler post regarding WD 16H frames beinmg the high ground clearance 'trial frame' explained why a mate couldn't get a 600 OHV engine into his (wd) 16H frame - yet it would fit my 'pukky' 16H frame.....

Never dun learning.

As I have in my office - "TO OLD TO KNOW EVERYTHING"

Re: Dreamers

According to Peter Roydhouse (who was sidecar trials champion on a Norton and had good contacts within the factory), the OHV 600cc Model 19 engine is indeed the only one that can't be fitted into the WD16H frame.

As you've correctly assumed, they effectively shortened front downtube and saddle tube by 1" to lift the engine.

Once you know the difference, it's quite easy to spot a WD frame, even if the rest of the bike has been cunningly disguised and registered as a pre-war civilian model.

Nieuwe pagina 1