ebay 231469018615

Talking to seller, it seems that no one realized that it is a W/NG including himself. Needs some bits and pieces changed out but over all a very good place to start. Back ground story starting to come in. Apparently it may have come from Burma. Waiting on frame and engine numbers. Considering options on how to get it back to British Columbia from California.
Wade

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Nice find Wade and a very good price. Did you manage to buy it? I don't know where they got 1938 from? with the solid handlebar clamps and tin covers on the engine, I'd say more like 1943/4?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Wade,
Nice find.
Ron that tin cover is a 1943 part(2015-43). Fitted in conjunction with the tin primaries.
When they reverted to alloy primaries towards the end of the war the tin cover stayed on the bikes for the army, but not the RAF or the navy, who reverted to ally timing covers.
The solid mount is also a 1943 change(4825C-43) as the WD complained about the bars swiveling in the rubber mounts when used off road.
Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Yes, I bought it, Ron. Like I say, figuring it out the least expensive way to get her back to BC.

While it was listed I didn't ask any questions about it because sellers often post those questions on the listing which then alerts others. If you look at the other pictures in the original listing you'll see that the tail lamp holder has 38 Ariel written on it. This is what the seller was going by and is the way he received it many years ago. He is an Italian bike specialist and is raising money for home repairs.

The only bad part for me is that the Canadian dollar has very recently plummeted in value so I had to pay the difference. Just have to look at world value prices. I am kind of hoping that as it has not been civilianized, perhaps it came in black so I can leave most of it as is. Should have the numbers by tomorrow.

looks like another order of bits from Drags, Mick :-).

Wade I would bet a years pension that it never left the factory in gloss black or with chrome rims. It's also lost it's original levers. In fact the lever BLADES look like WW2 matchless G3L. The dynamo and hooter are post war and the number plate is post war Triumph.
Can't you take a day off work and drive down and collect it?

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Sure, Ron, and maybe you'd like to drop over to go for a quick spin down the Washington, Oregon, California coast. We'll be back in 4-5 days.

I don't have a pension to bet with so no go there .

I was hoping that maybe it is a Navy or ARP bike as I believe that some of those were black, right?

Once I have the numbers it will become obvious what is incorrect. I think that it is a 1945 W/NG as indicated by the lack of light switch on the head lamp. That would possibly explain why it has universal handlebar controls as these were in line with other late WD machines. But then again, I'm only guessing for now. I do NOT want to have to search for more brass levers and 7" canvas grips!!

Thanks for the heads up on the Triumph number plate. Depending on it's use overseas I may leave some things as is, because that is the way it evolved during service. The Japanese hooter however, does have to go . I'll change out the rear mudguard stays to standard. Fortunately just picked up another lift handle. The pillion is also oddly mounted but possibly acceptable as is. There is another bar behind that mount that needs to be trimmed and the exhaust clamp to the head is ugly!

I'd love to do that trip Wade
If I sit back and squint at the engine number, I'm seeing 51006???

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Hi Wade,
Using the parts lists I have it seems Naval and RAF contracts were fitted with alloy timing/ primary covers rather than steel. Naval engines had NBH numbers, RAF had RBH. So far I have only found one parts list (for contract S5514 issued November 1944)which lists both covers in steel and modified lighting. I have parts lists for the last five Naval contracts all showing alloy covers and standard wiring. This is not conclusive as I still have gaps in my spares lists.
The panel on your headlamp looks a bit home made. The petrol tank is spot on for a late war bike, knee grip mounts removed with one put in more centrally for fixing a Vokes filter. The front guard looks correct too.
51006 is a little high for a W/NG, my info puts the highest engine number at 48100.
Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Hi Mick,

How about this 44 ARP W/NG on the Web? http://www.realclassic.co.uk/arielwng.html

It was delivered to the Navy (in black?) It also has the steel covers, so perhaps there is overlap in the contracts regarding fitment to the Air Force and Navy.

The head lamp panel looks to be bodged. Is it not otherwise the same as the one that you recently supplied to a forum member, along with the under seat switch?

I would like to leave this one in black if possible and also badge it as ARP. Already doing one in brown so this would be an easy resto. Anything wrong with that? :-)

The speedo bracket is wrong, along with the speedo face. Fortunately there is a speedo so a change out is easy.

Will need speedo drive gears and gear box.

In the ARP pictures the panier rack has a couple of bars across the top. Ever seen one like that? The W/NG I bought also has extra bars. Perhaps there is a pattern here.

Wade

Have the numbers now and it is a non matching mish mash.

Frame: XG 22772 Contract C13871 (Would this be considered a 42 frame or 43?)

Engine: BH31006

The interesting thing about the engine number is that it doesn't show up in the BF Motorcycles list. One contract ends with BH30750 and the next contract begins with BH32001. What happened to the numbers in between?

Don't know why the bike has a late tank on it. The seller has not been in contact with the person he got it from for ten years and has lost contact. Says that it came in a container load of all kinds of stuff from either Burma or Indonesia.

I thought the ARP wasn't classed as "British Forces" as it's a civil organisation, so maybe that's why your engine number isn't in the book...? Just a guess.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

As I said Wade, my evidence is not conclusive as parts list have yet to be found.
But the lists for the last five RN contracts show alloy covers and standard wiring.
That not to say the factory did not fit what they had laying around!
Here is what I mean about your headlamp panel-
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And an original one-
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Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Mick, I can't believe that Wades panel is home made. Why would anyone bother? I wonder if it's an even later variety, without the ammeter pressing and just a hole for the test button. I've had several of the un-pierced panels over the years, and some with the button in place, but can't remember about the ammeter pressing.

I'm still not convinced that any military Ariel's left the factory with shiny black paint and chrome wheels. Of course bikes were still being produced for Home Office and other essential services. The RC bike featured is definitely a restored bike and even has some post war parts attached. My mind is open, and I'd like to see some proof of his comments. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

The Ariel Club archivist can't find the engine in the despatch records so was likely supplied as a spare and possibly fitted to the earlier frame post war.
What is that button on the headlamp used for?
Would you say it is a 42 or a 43 frame? How do you tell with all the different order and release dates ranging over many months and crossing over years for various contracts?
Mick, let me know if you come across any more switches etc. :-)
Wade

email (option): iron_ariel@yahoo.ca

It did come from Burma, so any thing is possible.
I also have blank panels pierced in the switch pressing (Ariel and BSA) and pierced in the ammeter pressing (Matchless).
I have been chatting with Mr Madden on the subject of Navy colours as one of my W/NGs is from S308, a small Naval contract from late 1942. Evidence so far indicates they left the factory in the standard WD colour of the time. My Enfield CO was allegedly Navy, but inside the wheel hubs, up in the tank tunnel etc. was plenty of service brown.
Cheers, Mick.

email (option): mick@motorbikemike.org.uk

Hello Wade,
I was just reading your post on your odd engine number and I remember having the same question a while ago... As one of my W/NGs has the engine number BH30863, so just as yours "in between 2 contracts" (This should be the 113th engine made after contract S1049).
Also the frame this engine is fitted to is an "in between" number : XG40643
Funny to know that I'm not the only one out there with a "spare engine" Ariel.
Cheers,
Bernard

email (option): Bernard.de.smet@telenet.be

Hi Bernard.
Looks like you may have a W/NG assembled from spares. I think that every contract was supplied with a certain number of spare engines and frames but the serial numbers of these spares fall outside of the contract numbers. Only finished and complete machines fall into the first and last numbers of the contract. Makes a certain amount of sense. If the Ariel Club archivist cannot find a release date for the frame or engine then almost certainly it is a spare.
My new acquisition arrived from California today and over all is very solid. It is in a great condition to start restoration. Get those W/NG's on the road!

Cheers,
Wade

email (option): iron_ariel@yahoo.ca

Nice bike Wade ! Many Ariel WD contracts (according to the MOS ledgers) were for "X" number of complete machines but with additional engines, gearboxes, frames and forks supplied.......amounts varied too............it is entirely possibly that workshops built-up and/or overhauled bikes from a combination of existing and new-stock spares...........those spare frames and engines were most likely numbered too........

Ariel tended to go more on the engine number rather than the frame number, and the works themselves had their own unique "Tab" number for each machine entirely independent of the WD system............some later WD contracts even have the details of each team member (from between 10 - 13 persons) who built-up each bike on the line...............

Mick Holmes can probably elaborate on this more than I can...........

Thanks Steve! Must admit I am quite stoked to find one with most of it's pieces, making it an easy resto. This is my new future, no more collecting one bit at a time to put a complete machine together!
One thing I have never read is a first hand account from any of the guys who were on the assembly line. We always read stories from military vets, which is great, but there was so much back up for the front line forces and their stories are also important. Besides we could learn a lot of interesting details that the records don't show.

I think that most people try to match an engine to the year of the frame and register the machine to the year of the frame, so it is interesting you say Ariel was thinking the other way around.

I will have to make that decision as this bike has never been registered outside of Burma.

Cheers,
Wade

email (option): iron_ariel@yahoo.ca