http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-WM20-M20-M21-DECOMPRESSION-/291260054444?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43d073bbac

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

These valve lifters are very thin on the ground here and their prices have been steadily rising.

email (option): spacemonkeym@gmail.com

I once bought a house for less money that is asked for a good M20 or G3L these days.
and it had a roof and four standing walls which the Luftwaffe failed to knock down although they did have a good try.

That's a fair bit of money Henk, but as Matty says complete ones are thin on the ground. You do find them but the lifter arms are usually missing. It's the same old story if you want one and don't buy it you won't find another, and if you do it will be more money than the first.
Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

There is always the argument that you couldn't make one for that price.

But the problem is that auto jumblers see these prices on ebay and start to put their prices up to match.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

['But the problem is that auto jumblers see these prices on ebay and start to put their prices up to match']...

Do you really expect them not to?..

I always avoided pre war bikes as I ran my bikes for daily transport.

In my time at least, spares for pre war bikes were too thin on the ground to make them a practical proposition for every day use...

The M20 was an exception due to the large amounts of Ex WD spares available so consequently I ran these and early post war M and B Series Models for 40 years as daily transport...

It is definitely the case now though that spares for this period are also becoming much more scarce...

It's not an infinite supply after all and that is reflected in the rising prices for all parts...

I have sold 2 sets of 'wide flange' late ZB and BB B31/33 crankcases lately for £200 a pair...That's the going rate for a good set but I never dreamt I would see the price get that high...

I suspect we all like the high prices when selling though..including Henk. ..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Peters Classic Bikes still has complete sets for €48

email (option): viaconsu [at] planet [dot] nl

I'll go to the shed and see how many I still have of these M20 valve lifters, could be a quite a few.

Henk

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

The reason jumbler's prices are rising, is because some "unscrupulous customers" go to jumbles, just to buy stock, which they stick straight on the auction websites. In an effort to discourage them, we raise the prices, and try to spot those who are just "stocking up".

My mate Barry and I, are pretty good at spotting them, as they're getting well known in some cases. We can usually spot someone who actually needs our parts to actually put on a bike they're building. I won't go into details how we differentiate, but suffice to say, we're happy that we can spot most of them.

Almost all our prices are negotiable, and our labelled prices are often reduced significantly. We don't do ebay, except for stuff we're selling from our own personal, individual stock, as it's plain to see that ebay is slowly killing the jumble scene.

As soon as a car pulls up, with what is obviously a garage clearance, or a few boxes of nice parts, there are always "helpers" there (traders) who "help" with unloading the car. Those "helpers" then offer to "take stuff off the hands" of the poor chap who's just clearing their garage, hoping to make a few quid. This'll usually be a few hours before the public can get in.

I can promise you, if those having a clear-out with a view to making a few quid, refused the help from the ebay vultures, then wait until the paying public are in before they sell stuff, they'd make a few quid more from genuine enthusiasts looking for an illusive part or a bargain. Added to that, "Joe public" who comes along and pays an entrance fee to attend the jumble, would actually be more likely to find their illusive parts on a stall, and not go away worried about the increases in prices, or have to resort to dodgy deals on ebay.

email (option): oldjunk@btinternet.com

I've jumbled for 20 years or so and the overheads keep going up...It makes me laugh (in an ironic way) when people criticise jumblers for selling at the same prices as e bay..Why shouldn't they?

Last year my stall and diesel costs to do the April Stafford were £280...

If I sold everything at 100% profit (which I don't) the first £560 pounds worth of parts would be sold just for me to be there...Think about that...

Then there's the fact I often lose something to the thieves who frequent the scene...That's a total loss...

If the weather turns out to be really bad that can cut sales as well...but not the overheads unfortunately..

I enjoy the atmosphere at the jumbles and the social side of meeting up with fellow enthusiasts and that is what largely keeps me attending these days but I also have to make some money to make the effort worthwhile...

I've never sold anything on e bay and don't particularly want to, though I have bought a lot...

E Bay, not autojumbles is the real driving force behind the higher prices that people are now complaining about...but many of those same people sell on e bay and have no qualms about benefitting from that fact...

It seems to me hypocritical to complain, yet at the same time benefit from the e bay system...and then to criticise someone charging the same prices at an autojumble...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I,ve sold parts on Ebay only to see them relisted later and sold for a higher price, cant complain as I sold them for a price which was ok for me! as I dont want to haul my hoard all over the country only to have some clown try to knock me down to a stupid price or steal it.Each to his own, must say most buyers on Ebay are no hassle and seem grateful to find the parts they need to finish their bikes..Dave

Ian, it's like those folk who complain about the high prices of bikes yet never sell their own for what they think that other seller should when selling to them.


As for the profit thing when I was trading I'd get someone come in saying "'ere you mug, you bought that old bike off so and so he got it out of a skip, or got paid to take it way......"

They'd never understand I paid for it 'cos I knew I could make a few bob on it; most of which went on rent, rates, services and so on.

profit is a dirty word to motorcylists, unless of course on its their bike....but thats different.

Yes and I've bought military collectables on Ebay and sold them at Military fairs.

I've also seen lots of autojumble move from one stall to another on the Thursday of Netley increasing in price each time until none of the dealers think there is a profit left and then the public are allowed to have a go on Friday and Saturday, it happens at Antique fairs too, its all part of the great game of capitalism.

But I stand by my earlier comment, just because something sells for a high price at auction doesn't mean you can use that as a gauge of value, look at the Triumph Model H and Sidecar that Peter de Savary bought back in the 90s for 25k at auction, I worked at a bike shop in Somerset at the time and I remember all the dealers putting their prices up, not selling anything and then dropping them again.

Yes Autojumblers can ask whatever they want, but if they want to cover their overheads I guess they have to turn stock over, I know I do when I have a stall.

This will be my last comment on this thread, we are all entitled to our opinion and I have given mine.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(a)yahoo.co.uk

Isn't part of the game spotting the vlaue in an item that someone else has not?

putting my tarnished halo on I'admit at times I have spotted something on some old fella's stall that I didn't want but has spotted was something of a reaity and given him the nod as to its true worth.

['But I stand by my earlier comment, just because something sells for a high price at auction doesn't mean you can use that as a gauge of value']...


I'm afraid that is what's used as a gauge of value...Everybody notes what things sell for in all these markets and then calculates what they think something is worth based on that information...and if the prices are rising, which they are on e bay, that rise will be reflected in the calculation...

I think the example of the Triumph is not one that in any way represents a 'normal' transaction and as such is not representative of the real situation. When people make their 'value' calculation I believe they 'factor out' those sort of extremes....

The fact is e bay is driving prices up quickly...How is that happening?....

People remember the higher prices achieved, not the lower ones...When they come to sell a similar item they pitch their start price not too far behind what they have seen the part sell for previously...They don't start of at half that...Thus there is a constant upward pressure based on the previous highest, realistic, price achieved...

At least that's what I believe happens....

To think other markets such as autojumbles will operate in a vacuum, independently of what happens on e bay and with a different and lower price structure doesn't seem likely to me...

I think autojumble prices will follow a parallel upwards curve....If they don't what would be the point of jumbling at all from the stall holders point of view?...

If prices achieved on e bay are constantly and increasingly higher than those achieved at jumbles then in the end there won't be any jumbles...

Nobody operates their jumble stall as a charity that I know of..In the end they will go where the money is. If they can't get a price that compares favourably to a large extent with what they could achieve on e bay then that is where they will go..

Personally I think that would be regrettable but it is likely..There are a number who have gone that way already...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Perversely, at Netley I bought a pair of vintage sunbeam crankcases for half what I would happily have paid for them on ebay.

It's always possible to quote examples of high, or low, prices...I've bought parts at very reasonable prices on e bay for example...

I am talking more about the average prices paid, which are generally rising pretty rapidly and are driven largely by e bay IMO...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I don' think that we can blame eBay. It's just a further step in the internationalisation of the old bike market that was probably started by the first issue of 'Classic Bike' Magazine.

Suddenly dealers realised that with one glossy advert, they could reach customers in the US, Japan and Australia and prices began to increase. There is only a finite amount of spare parts for this stuff and it's no longer restricted to those of us who can rummage at rainy UK autojumbles.

I'm only in Belgium, but realistically, if I pay £100 for a small bracket on eBay, it'll cost me less than leaving home at 02.00hrs, a ticket for the Shuttle and two tanks of diesel, and I won't be tempted by a tea bag in a polystyrene cup for two pound something a go...it's not nearly as much fun though.

The flip side is that we now have access to parts from Greece and Egypt witout Eric Patterson and Ron Farthing's percentage on top !

Even if eBay disappeared, there would still be the problem of hoardes of Dutch buying parts for re-sale...

In the early/mid seventies when i started this hobby people would come to me asking if i wanted to buy their motorcycle/parts. There was no Old bike mart or ebay or whatever. We didn't even bother to put an ad in a newspaper.

Now parts are evermore scarce people put them on ebay for the best price. You can t blame them. I was happy to find some on ebay myself
But going to a jumble is ofcourse more fun - and indeed more expensive (especially for us, foreigners)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BSA-WM20-M20-M21-DECOMPRESSION-/291260054444?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43d073bbac[/quote]

I bet you didn't
The scrap value of a WM20 back in 1945 was £ 5.oo Aust.
That £ 5,00 adjusted for inflation is now $ 1500.00

The current scrap value of a WM20 if broken down is around $ 45.00.

One of the local pubs does schooners of beer on Anzac Day for the WWII price of 3p
The 2014 price of the same schooner is $ 6.00. approx 300 x the price.

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

I paid £60 for my B33 in 1978...I bought a Panther 120 for £10 in the early 70's, 2 M21s plus a sidecar chassis for £45, I got a standard plunger A10 for £25 and a R E Continental GT for a pint of beer...I could go on and on...

And I had a Y13, Scott Flying Squirrel, Royal Enfield Clipper and others given to me free gratis...Happy Days...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

yes our colonial cousins have no idea how cheap old bikes were back then.

I have bought running bikes for thirty bob[£1.50] had vinatge bikes given to me, often runners, still got one of them.
peole were just glad toget shot of them.
Even Motorcycle Mechanics magazine in the mid 1960s gave away, yes gave away, a running perfectly usable Royal Enfield 1140 V twin.

You'd weep if you could see the old vehicle dump just off Hammersmith fly-over in the 1960s, you'd DRIVE your bike or car in and just leave it.

http://youtu.be/-P-f1mssUeI

I still have somewhere a 1968 copy of Motorcycle Mechanics where the main feature was entitled...'Build yourself a cheap tourer'...The subject bike?

A running £130 Vincent Rapide... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

In 1968 I bought a Vincent Rapide from Deeprose Brothers of Catford for £125 they had about a dozen for sale. I was asked why did I want to buy one of these rattly old things when I had such a nice bike (a 1962 BSA Super Rocket)

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the 'Motorcycle Mechanics' bike came from the same place...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Would'a should'a could'a. This thread is truly depressing. We all had those incidents and some of us are very happy to disremember them.

email (option): jonny.rudge@verizon.net

No, No John.....It was a great time through the 70s and early 80s...I took full advantage of the cheap bikes and tried most of the common postwar stuff and a number of real rarities..

You couldn't do it today without a very large bank account..for example..

Mk2 Ariel Square 4
Scott Flying Squirrel
Greeves Oulton
Greeves Silverstone
A genuine works James trials bike
A genuine works RE trials Bullet
A genuine G3C trials Matchless
Rocket Gold Star
DB34 Gold Star
ZB34 Gold Star
ZB32 Gold Star
Mk2 Rocket3
A factory competition B44
BSA Y13
BSA Blue Star
Royal Enfield Interceptor
Royal Enfield Constellation
Panther Stroud...etc. etc....

These are just some of the 300 or so bikes I have owned...No youngster starting out today could hope for the same thing..Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Great days for motorcycling and for those of us that were interested in old bikes.
'ere son d'you want this old bike beofre it goes to the dump/or I'll bury it in the anderson?"

"no thanks but I'll have the tank badges"

I'm not upset about it, except for the bikes I had to sell to pay the rent.

Isdt MV augusta 175ohc

a another MV ohc 175 race bike
a flat tank AJS 350sv
ditto 500cc
Triumph H
1918 Douglas
a super pukka trials special,500c square barrel Triumph enginebuilt by one of the old style riders out of about 12 diggerent makes of bike.
My old C12
a 1928 Raliegh
1933 Levis 350, my missus wept when that one had to go, she loved it.

and many others.
dearest bike of the lot was the Dougie, £75,restored and running.[1968] It's still out there somewhere.

the 1140 RE twin was actually the property of the Magazine deputy editor.

My 1938 500 Matchless, 1 ex factory owner, laid up for 15 years in a nice warm garage, had its owners widow PAY a neighbour to take it away, it ended up inthe council tip but was rescued and I gave the rescuer a set of long Triumph chaincases for it.
Still got that bike.

Chaps, if we liquidate our assets, we'll all be millionaires !

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-pair-of-Tire-Valve-stem-locking-nut-vintage-Triumph-Bsa-Norton-/351197546836?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51c5014954

Errr...I think we've just entered the twilight zone......Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Regardless off money or value, I would love to go back to the seventies. Buy ans sell whatever you like.
Nowadays its nearly impossible to buy an incomplete project and find what you need.
Many intersting models are not even offered for sale anymore, even if you are willing to pay "silly money."

Regardless off money or value, I would love to go back to the seventies. Buy ans sell whatever you like.
Nowadays its nearly impossible to buy an incomplete project and find what you need.
Many intersting models are not even offered for sale anymore, even if you are willing to pay "silly money."[/quote]

That's why those of us who find side-valves produced in the hundreds of thousands to be 'interesting' are so often to be found riding around with a big grin....

Regardless off money or value, I would love to go back to the seventies. Buy ans sell whatever you like.
Nowadays its nearly impossible to buy an incomplete project and find what you need.
Many intersting models are not even offered for sale anymore, even if you are willing to pay "silly money."[/quote]

You just have to live another 20 years.
By that time most of us will be contemplating the lid of a coffin,, from the inside.
All the "interesting" stuff we have squrilled away will be back on the market when the grandkids clear out the junk becuse the property developer told then they would get a better price for our houses if they were empty.
SO if the scrap metal merchant who tkes all the garbage away for no charge is clued in it will go for sale, if not it will go to China / Brazil / india to be turned into 100 modern vehicles.

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au