There was a robbery at around 11.00pm last night at the National Motorcycle Museum near Birmingham.

No bikes were stolen, but a lot of trophies were purloined for their scrap value (presumably). Chances are that no one on this honest forum will know anything about it. But I've been asked to spread the word, so maybe you could pass it on among your clubs or forums.

The trophies are worth just a few hundred quid in scrap, I'm told. But of course the historic value is significantly higher. There's more on this on Sump, but you've got the gist of it right here.

Watch out please for any trophies being offered in the usual places. But the missing items are probably already in the furnace. On the other hand, they might be a little too hot to handle at the moment, and they're going to look very suspicious.


Telephone: 01675 443311
www.thenmm.co.uk
james@thenmm.co.uk

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Was there no permanent security presence ? Just as after the fire, we found out that there were no sprinklers, we now find that they're not fit to be custodians of silverware either.

I hope that they get it back but it's probably in ingot form on its way to Romania by now.

Exactly my thoughts Rik...Like you I hope the trophies are recovered.

However, I can't help but wonder whether the NMM are really fit to be custodians of a significant part of our motorcycle heritage...

Sprinklers, security...it's pretty basic stuff and an overhead that has to be met as this latest event confirms...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I spoke to James Hewing, Director of Operations, and he said that there is a guy who lives on site, and there is CCTV. But clearly, neither of those arrangements stopped the thieves.

He was clearly very disappointed about what has happened, and I didn't want to rub salt in the wound. But I agree, the security sounds inadequate.

I've never liked the idea of putting all those motorcycles in the same place. We saw what happened in the fire. The old expression about not putting all your eggs in one basket applies.

In any case, the real classic bike museum is a LIVING museum that happens at all the shows and events and in people's garages (Ron's a one man museum, isn't he?)

I don't know the ins and out, but I don't think the museum makes much money. There's a conference centre there, and that pays the big bills. But I heard somewhere that in order to get planning permission for the centre, there had to be some kind of public exhibition hall or museum or whatever as a condition.

If true (and I say "if"), it might be that no one really wants to spend much money on museum security - until something like this happens.

It's a mess.

email (option): dannydefazio@sumpmagazine.com

Why not raffle off the bikes or are they doing that already?

Why not raffle off the bikes or are they doing that already?

Why not raffle off the bikes or are they doing that already?[/quote]

Huhh

email (option): spacemonkeym@gmail.com

it is separated into three section wouldn't it be a good idea to have each section with a secure shutter for security and fire stop to start with

email (option): roger.beck@node6.com

it is separated into three section wouldn't it be a good idea to have each section with a secure shutter for security and fire stop to start with[/quote]

I think it all boils down to the fact the owners are not really concerned with the exhibits. They are just a means to an end - making money. Ok if something impacts on bringing the punters in then it will maybe get looked at. But if it means laying out unnecessary expense then it won't be done. I learned some disturbing facts after the previous fire about how the place was run. Can't write them here. But I don't believe there is any real interest in the bikes side of things, they are just the chosen theme for the other side of the operation. A pity that so many people donated items and money believing they were doing the right thing and supporting a worthy cause. I've no doubt there are people involved with the operation who have an interest in the bikes, but I don't believe they have any real say about executive decisions. By all means ask them :-) and it would be nice to be proved wrong.

Didn't they even have an alarm system ADT at least??

This needs sorting pronto

Really sad. I was there last Thursday, for about the 5th time. I had a look in the trophy cabinet for a special reason. An old mate of mine, Tom Burnett, lost his Triumph Owners Club badge many years ago, on his way from Kent, to the museum for the AGM. Lo and behold, it turned up in the trophy cabinet a few years later. He was dead chuffed. It was a big one, for mounting on his bike, and was the only one I've ever seen.

I've religiously gone and had a look every time I've been there, just to make sure it's still on show. Maybe it fell off his bike, and was found in the car park, who knows. All Tom knew, was that it was once his, and it ended up in a museum. He was very proud. He loved TOMCC, and started the Bexley branch (I'm a member). Hopefully, the scumbags missed it, but if anyone can confirm that, I'd be pleased for Tom.

For those who haven't been there, the Museum is privately owned, and is used daily for corporate, and conference events. The display case was in the free access area, where anybody could see it for free. A lot of silverware was in the cabinet, with very little security around it. Anyone can get to it during the day, and no doubt, a few thousand "non motorcyclists" will have walked past, who don't give a toss about bikes, biking history etc, and will have just seen pound signs.

As the museum is privately owned, the bikes are there, on "Trust". I.E. the owners have put them in the museum, to show them for others to appreciate. The museum doesn't "own" the vast majority of the bikes. They are still raising money to rebuild 250 (I think) odd bikes, which were damaged in the fire they didn't prepare for. In my mind, A load of bikes with petrol or vapour in their tanks + dodgy electrics + no smoke detectors + no sprinklers + corporate entertainment involving yuppies with wine, cigars, cucumber sandwiches etc = a disaster waiting to happen.

Now, a few big non-smash resistant glass cases, full of bright shiny cups, trophies, plaques etc, protected by a woman on the front desk who says "if you want the museum, you pay over there", then the "over there" is the other side of all the silverware and a few "choice" bikes, which you walk past to either go to your conference on plastic cups, recycling tin cans, or whatever, also, to me at least seems like another disaster waiting to happen.

Or you may have an interest in bikes and have no inclination towards being a thieving scumbag. If you are like this, take m y advice. If you're ever in a position to have a lovely bike, and you'd like others to see it, DON'T LET THESE PEOPLE LOOK AFTER IT!!

email (option): oldjunk@btinternet.com

I was amazed after the fire to find that the reason there were no sprinklers in the Museum was because they thought that if they were accidentally triggered they would do a lot of damage to the bikes!!...Surprising also that in this safety conscious day and age they were allowed to have a public venue without them....

While on the subject of the Museum and 'how they do it' it's worth noting that many of the bikes on display are not to 'catalogue' or 'original' specification...

I'm very familiar with quite a few BSA models and it wasn't difficult for me to see quite obvious deviations from standard on a number of the display bikes...No doubt some others I am less familiar with are the same...

After the fire they bought an 'Ivory' Calthorpe from a friend of mine to replace the one lost in the fire...It was a nice restoration but not 100% specification wise. I have since seen the bike on display in exactly the same format...

I don't make this observation in a critical way regarding the actual bikes...To gather that many totally concourse bikes in one place would indeed be a challenge...

However, I do feel that the museum should make people aware of the fact that to use the display bikes as a template for a restoration on the basis that they must be concourse because they are there is an erroneous assumption...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Bear in mind "concourse" and "original" are two entirley different things. These days if you built a bike to original someone would complain it was dull!

It true...the two aren't the same...

However, what's in the museum are neither in some cases, so the cautionary note still applies....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

All these museums are the same to me the n.m.m is just the same to many bikes to near behind a rope get them spread out so you can get near them and make another museum up north with the other bikes . I know what you will say the bikes will get damaged well not as much as a fire . And my bike has had no damage at any display i have visited.

I was amazed after the fire to find that the reason there were no sprinklers in the Museum was because they thought that if they were accidentally triggered they would do a lot of damage to the bikes!!... [/quote]

Do they think the bikes are made of paper..? I'd better not take my bike out in the rain then..!

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

,,,,was because they thought that if they were accidentally triggered they would do a lot of damage to the bikes!!... [/quote]
Not an uncommon misconception unfortunately. Hollywood films tend to show someone breaking one sprinkler head and then suddenly every head in the building is activated. Definitely not how they work. They are designed to put out a fire while it is still small, i believe on average only 4 heads are activated in any one fire. And if someone hits one head only that head is affected.
Now putting hobby horse back in stable.
Iain

Sprinkler systems are installed as "Life Safe" systems, which are solely designed to save lives. To install one for the purpose of protecting motorcycles, would be a totally different system.

I've installed several, at places like the BBC, MOD properties, and Recycling centres. They operate in such a way as to instantly extinguish a fire, usually using an inert gas, dumped at a very high volume, so that it almost immediately pushes all of the air out of the area. The old gas which people will have heard of, was Halon. Unfortunately, it was a toxic CFC. If you were in a halon protected area (Like inside a Challenger Tank!), and it discharged, you would be very lucky to remain unhurt, you could well be killed, but you wouldn't burn (and the tank wouldn't blow up).

Halon was replaced by non toxic gasses such as FM200. This stuff is still very dangerous, and if it goes off (discharges) you're in danger of having your eardrums blown in if the pressure relief louvres don't fly open to alleviate the pressure it creates while forcing the air out. For that reason, you are supposed to disable gas discharge systems, when people are in the area.

Actually the only system which you could really install at the museum, with it's high ceilings and large areas, would be a foam discharge system. These are great fun. We did one at Gatwick, which would fill a hangar in 90 seconds if a plane caught fire. The foaming agents come in different forms. Detergents, BCF (Bio-Chemical-Foam) or even "Organic". Detergents are quite slow to pump but work quite well, however as they are water based, you can't get rid off the stuff. Try flushing washing up liquid down a plug hole!
BCF is good, but very expensive and has to be regularly checked that it still works. Oh yes, almost forgot, it's quite good for taking paint off. The Organic stuff we used, was based on Bull's blood. Yes, blood! Easy to clean up but stinks like hell, and costs a fortune.

The cheapest, most cost effective way of preventing fires at the museum, is to employ intelligent security wardens, pay them well, and ,make sure they stay awake. They can prevent a fire starting in the first place, by not letting smokers walk around the bikes at night when they've been drinking. While they are at it, THEY COULD KEEP AN EYE OPEN FOR THIEVING SCUMBAGS!!!!

email (option): oldjunk@btinternet.com

,,,,was because they thought that if they were accidentally triggered they would do a lot of damage to the bikes!!... [/quote]
Not an uncommon misconception unfortunately. Hollywood films tend to show someone breaking one sprinkler head and then suddenly every head in the building is activated. Definitely not how they work. They are designed to put out a fire while it is still small, i believe on average only 4 heads are activated in any one fire. And if someone hits one head only that head is affected.
Now putting hobby horse back in stable.
Iain[/quote]

Quite right,
It all depends upon how they are configured.
AFAIK in OZ, in an event space like a museum or conference centre , if 1 goes off that trigers a self priming pump which blows all of the sprinklers on a circuit that covers every window & door to prevent people being trapped inside. Some fire fighters I know have told me that the wet air being drawn into the fire slows down its initial spread while other tell me it intensifies the heat gradient in the building which helps the fire to spread by reducing the time till flashover occurs.

And the question I need to know is what is the problem with plain old CO2.
There used to be a lot of CO2 systems in computer centres electricity substations & we even had one in our annalytical lab.

Now as far as the NMM goes, while I do support the ideal of such venues where motorcycling can be presented to Joe public in a positive manner and people with large collections or historically significant motorcycles can leave them to be enjoyed by a large number of people & they can be stored in much more ideal conditions than my leaky back shed.
However I do start to worry about the ethics & motives of the owner.
neither fire alarms nor burgular alarms on valuable & historically significant objects , smells funny.
Broken glass alarms are dirt cheap and down here are mandatory for every museum or art gallery other wise no insurance compay will touch them. After the 3rd break in , my insurance company demanded I fit glass & window alarms to the PIR already installed and that was way back in the 80's , so 30 years latter and some one had display cabinets in a public area subject to smash & grab attack, with no alarma on the cases and what looks like tempered saftey glass in the country that invented bullet proof laminated glass, smells really really bad.

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

A bunch of Rumanians pinching copper from an electricity sub station near Birmingham set of the Halon extinguisher system and extinguished themselves....

Perhaps if there is a chance of people being trapped in a building they don't favour systems such as Halon and CO2 which you can't breath..

I know 'safer' Halon variants have been developed but you still can't stay in the room with them.....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Sounds like the perfect use for a gas flood system, nominee's for a Darwin award there.
We have a client (i am a civil engineer, design buildings for a crust) who used to require gas flood systems in the electrical switch rooms but for staff H&S reasons went to "dry drop" system some years ago - a two stage system where the lines are charged with air only initially, and need two activations on any one head before water gets released. So much harder to accidently wet the switchboards.

A bunch of Rumanians pinching copper from an electricity sub station near Birmingham set of the Halon extinguisher system and extinguished themselves....

Perhaps if there is a chance of people being trapped in a building they don't favour systems such as Halon and CO2 which you can't breath..

I know 'safer' Halon variants have been developed but you still can't stay in the room with them.....Ian [/quote]