Hello,
I hope it's ok that I have invaded your forum! I am doing a bit of research on WWII era motorcycles for a possible project/event. I am looking to find what the scene is like in specifically the UK, but also the rest of Europe.

Are there still many of these bikes that are in good running condition? Does anyone know any of the vets that rode these bikes that might tell the story of their motorcycle?

If anyone has any info they could share, that would be great. Either respond here, or even better, shoot me an email at sarah@primeandfire.com

Thanks in advance,
Sarah

email (option): sarah@primeandfire.com

Hi Sarah,

Take a look at this page and you get a pretty good impression about what we are all doing with our motorcycles.

Henk

http://wdbsa.nl/Normandie%202014.htm

email (option): ahum@quicknet.nl

Take a look at the 'Prime and Fire' website fellas!! I really feel like I'm part of that

Should have taken the trouble to go to War and Peace perhaps?

or one of the pre D Day events?

still, as there ain't that many working WD bikes about in the 'scene'........

I hestitated before I googled Prime and Fire, does Sarah not realise that old men on this could get excited by what image that conjures up?

I mean, I'm old, but it don't take many kicks to get me fired up


'Vets' love it it, the poor sick horse would have died before the vet got there on a 16H.... hurry up , theres a carrier pigeon here with undercarriage damage, would a flying flea be appropriate ?

I'm sure Sarah is a nice person...As for 'Prime and Fire' it seems to be an agency specialising in 'Blue sky thinking' management speak bullshit...

You know...

'Our mission is to provide profitable expansion into product related new business areas whilst scouting relationship growth opportunities and exploring new paradigms in emerging, mission inclusive environments, with the aim of filtering, communicating and evangelizing the results..' ...

OK ya?...or have I got the wrong prime and fire?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

I'm sure she is a lovely lass [send pic, contact no and details by PM, GSOH essential] in my view her problem is that there is at least one generation between hers and ours in our attitude to such things.

I've just bought a moped that belonged to a member of the French Resistance[really] will that do?

Sarah, if you have managed to drag yourself past the pervert / playground sexual innuendo from Ken you will fnd that most of the guys here are well mannered and helpful.
I doubt very much if any WW2 veterans visit this site, but I think we have some post war army riders here.
We are mainly interested in preserving and riding the bikes, but all have a different perspective and abilities.
If you could be more specific with the information you need somebody could probably help you.
Dont be put off by one mans rudeness.

I didn't think I was that rude ? In fact I dont think I was rude at all, a bit saucy perhaps.

However, I cynically think, having looked at the Prime and Fire site, [have you?] they'll want your bike for some advertising stunt or executive playground nonsense and you'll likely be well cheesed off that you were associated with it.
At least thats been my experience with such firms.



I'll be happy to be proved wrong, and happily apologise profusely and politely to Sarah, and if she does read this she should to note that Peter has some ongoing old grievance with me to do with his hat.



There are lots of WW2/military history/services sites on the net well able to find ex WW2 service men.

Peter, Ken's a Matchless owner. They're all perverts ! It begins with self-flagellation when the dynamo needs attention and some of 'em just don't know when to stop !

I know of several ex-servicemen who had wartime contact with motorcycles but they're all ninety-plus and are unlikely to want contact with a commercial organisation.

...but to confirm Henk's answer to the original question. The 'scene' in the UK and Europe is doing very nicely. Via a couple of internet forums we can mobilise two-hundred plus seventy-five year old vehicles to meet up in a foreign country and then all ride in the same direction at the same time...Even if a couple of BSAs didn't want to start !

TWO Matchless which make me a double perve?

One reason I was so flippant is that the inital request is so vague.
no detail, no reason,no concept just some nothing except a link to the sort of trendy whizz kids set up that irritates the hell out me and I suspect a few others; all that trendy chat, 'shoot me an email' 'vets' 'scene'....I'm afraid gets the hairs on my neck into fighting mode.

It's a shame the lass hasn't come back to explain herself more and find not only some answers but that perves can be nice people too.......

Oh Ken, you are just so infra-dig. Cool your jets, get in to the vibe and cut the girl some slack. rofl.

I'm sure Sarah is a nice person...As for 'Prime and Fire' it seems to be an agency specialising in 'Blue sky thinking' management speak bullshit...

You know...

'Our mission is to provide profitable expansion into product related new business areas whilst scouting relationship growth opportunities and exploring new paradigms in emerging, mission inclusive environments, with the aim of filtering, communicating and evangelizing the results..' ...

OK ya?...or have I got the wrong prime and fire?...Ian [/quote]


Gees I thought it was some backwood US hillbilly organisation with a hard right anti government bent and obsolete fire arms.

However Ken is right.
She is just anther shinny bum whithout any knowledge of what she is talking about and too lazy to do any primary research expecting other to do all her work for her while she exploits the profitable expansion.

As has been noted before very few WW II veterans out there period let alone lucid ones the could relate any sort of reliable memories as we all know from contact with them at the various shows.
I have had the B40 identified as a WM20 from WW II so may times it is not funny regardless of the fact the markings on it were from a division exclusive to Vietnam And then there are those who clearly remember riding a Matchless , Norton, Triumph (insert your favourite marque nqme here ) identical to mine in WW II, Korea , Borneo , Cyprus or ( insert your favourite conflict zone )

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

['Via a couple of internet forums we can mobilise two-hundred plus seventy-five year old vehicles to meet up in a foreign country and then all ride in the same direction at the same time...Even if a couple of BSAs didn't want to start !']


Good job it was the BSAs that wouldn't start...If a couple of Nortons hadn't started there wouldn't have been any Nortons... ...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Hi Ian & Co, I feel I have to agree with all who doubt the intentions of Sarah, having viewed her site, I cannot find any relevant material that researches or even refers to WW2 Motorcycles, or WW2 facts or fiction of any kind, it all seems to be a stab in the dark to jump on the emotional band wagon of the horror of WW2 and then lead into WW1 just as the whole of the UK goes into hypodrive regarding the Centenary of this GREAT WAR. Nice try Sarah but let our brave lads and lasses be remembered for the right reasons, THEY ARE ALL HEROS, DEAD OR ALIVE, leave your site for other things like skateboard parks and other inner city projects and consider this, "We will remember them" but as for skateparks and other projects I doubt many will.

email (option): c.w.taylor@btinternet.com

Thanks for your message Peter....didn't realize I was going to stir the pot so much by asking a question on a forum.

In response to a few of the comments...you are all correct..although I have done a bit of "primary" research, I'm not that knowledgeable on this topic....hence my post on the forum...how am I supposed to learn without asking questions? Thanks to those who have come back to me with helpful information.

Also, the lack of concept or idea is because I'm still doing "primary" research and trying to figure out what is possible and what's not. There's was no point in detailing the ideas, if there was a lack of machines, or if people were unwilling to share their knowledge. If and when the project moves forward....I, of course, would share all details, as I would never expect people to let us use their motorcycle for something they disagreed with.

Oh...and never been called a whizz kid before...I'll take that as a compliment.

email (option): sarah@primeandfire.com

Sincere apology if I offended.

We are mostly old men here with various quirks of behaviour.
I suspect you suffer from the affliction of youth.

Above all you need to realise that we all have the utmost respect for the men who rode these bikes inthe day; Very often a owner will have sought out a particular bike and restored it as a memory and tribute to a relative.

There are loads of machines out there; just about everyone you meet who is involved with them with be only too pleased to share info with you; probably more than you'd want.

You need to be much more forthcoming with even an outline of your ideas; your site does not inspire confidence amongst old cynical miseries who instinctly distrust the sort of language of 'Prime and Fire' all that urban down with the kids, street jargon, hats on backwards, trousers falling down crap.

what really bothers me is...

"...expect people to let us use their motorcycle for something they disagreed with. "

these bikes are treasured possessions, you have no idea of the sweat, time, toil and cash spent by some chaps here to bring them to a usable condition.

Theres no way I'd let such an outfit as yours use my bike. Some of us have had experience of loans of vehicles to film companies, [I didn't want mine blown up thanks]

I have a suspicion[happy to be proved wrong] that you ideas tend towards event days out on our old bikes along the lines of executive drive a tank day playgrounds?
These bikes are totally 100% different to ride compared to a modern bike, and need a set of riding skills that cannot be taught in a couple of days, and you'd be staggered at repair costs if they were damaged in any way.

There will be other opinions later;

However if you do have GSOH you can still send a photo to this old perve

These bikes are totally 100% different to ride compared to a modern bike, and need a set of riding skills that cannot be taught in a couple of days, [/quote]

....Can't be taught in half a lifetime judging by some of the yanking at A/R controls and inept wobbling that I saw in Normandy....

I reckon that one of Sarah's clients is about to re-launch the DR coat and leggings to a discerning international clientele. They still need help recapturing the smell of rubberised canvas.

Can't beat the smell of a well-oiled tank suit in the early morning.

Thanks for your message Peter....didn't realize I was going to stir the pot so much by asking a question on a forum.

In response to a few of the comments...you are all correct..although I have done a bit of "primary" research, I'm not that knowledgeable on this topic....hence my post on the forum...how am I supposed to learn without asking questions? Thanks to those who have come back to me with helpful information.

Also, the lack of concept or idea is because I'm still doing "primary" research and trying to figure out what is possible and what's not. There's was no point in detailing the ideas, if there was a lack of machines, or if people were unwilling to share their knowledge. If and when the project moves forward....I, of course, would share all details, as I would never expect people to let us use their motorcycle for something they disagreed with.

Oh...and never been called a whizz kid before...I'll take that as a compliment. [/quote]

If you want to know some thing then by all means ask a question.
However haveing run a transport company for over 25 years specialising in fashion magazines , production houses & PR companies one gets very suspicious of a broad open question with absolutely no background.

I would imagine that most of us have volunteered our time & machines on more than one occasion to some one who we thought was doing something noble only to find our efforts have been bastardised in some sort of distasteful & dissrespable oft highly inappropriate promotion of an event or product that if we had know the purpose we would not have had a bar of in the first place.
Even worse when appallingly bad and oft totally wrong copy gets printed in magazines which the young & ignorant revere like Vogue, Marie Clair, Harpers , etc then it ends up becomming popular "fact".
With the anniversary of WW I currently being the "Hot media item" we get more than a little suspicious that we are just being exploited by some organization trying to cash in on current history.
Right now I can go into a trendy burbon bar in Sydney and order a "mustard gas" or "Flanders flurry" being served up by people who have never know any adversity greater than a broken fingernail, let alone a war.

I personally have organised better than 100 old motorcycles for various reasons over the years when I was in daily contact with the media but if some one was not willing to tell me what where when & why they did not the time of day.
A lot of people have used this forum for research of one kind or another and have been well received when we get treated like intelligne human beings.
then we have the web site of your supposed organization which I could have used in my communications class to teach the students how to write a pile of twaddle that says absolutely nothing while rendering the pomposity of importance.
To be honest I was not sure if you were a gen Y with no idea or a post ggrad doing a thesis on some aspect of the web.
Honesty is like love & trust you only get what give.

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au

I'm relieved to see I am not the only suspicious/wary one here.

Around my village this year we have had a couple of trendy types trying to get on the 1914-18 bandwagon; one barefoot and ponytail banjo player,[BBC backed would'nt you guess] was looking for people with memories of 'folk songs' that the yokels would have sung after the war finished.

He appeared not only be not able to grasp the concept of such people with memories of 1919-on being long dead, but that the idea of cider drinking happy yokels sitting around in the pub singing songs about it was patently absurd.

In one village nearby one woman lost 3 sons; of the 10 men on our war memorial 6 have no known grave; two at Gallipoli were dead within hours of being sent into battle. We do have one WW1 VC still out in Iraq. Losses for the Wiltshire regts were very heavy.

I know lets sing a song about it......

As you can guess I made my feelings known, and am glad to say the wheels fell off that particular bandwagon.

It'll get worse yet.

Yes,
Frank Zappa summed it up nicely with a little tribute ditty to the Bi-centinnal of the USA.
Called 200 years old

email (option): wariron@tpg,com,au