hi guys

I have a frame number on a old frame looks like the number is 55547 what year is this guys

thank dave

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

BSA M20?...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

sorry Ian
On a norton 16h sorry
dave

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Hi Dave...I can't find it in the Norton info. I have...The number falls 'between' contracts...You're going to need a Norton expert like Rik for this one....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

thank Ian thank for trying mate

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

Dave, photographs would be helpful on this one, clear side views and also a decent close-up photograph of the number stamped on the left-hand side front fuel tank mounting (If you'd prefer not to post on-line, you can mail me).

Is it a WD or civilian frame ?

55547 without prefix would probably date from late 1934 (Norton didn't despatch their frames in any particular sequence). If from this date then it is too early to be from a War Department contract.

Wartime production should have a 'W' prefix but there are no surviving factory ledgers and there is a gap of 10,000 machines in the contract records from W50000 to W60000. This is too large to relate to RAF or RN deliveries which is the usual explanation for gaps of a few hundred machines (many of which we've now been able to fill in).

Current thinking is that Nortons reserved a batch of 10,000 numbers for 'hybrid' OHV machines, as did the other main manufacturers at this time (BSA were all set to produce WB30s)...and when these OHV contracts were cancelled in favour of the existing side-valves, it seems likely that Norton simply 'forgot' the un-issued numbers.

None of which really helps with your frame but there may be other clues present as to roughly when it was produced.

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Dave and Rik,

I date it as mid to late 1933, i think that if this is the case then it will have a bend in the top tube just passed the rear tank mounts. Think the straight top tube came in for1934. picture would be nice.

Tim W

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

Absence of a "W" prefix to the frame number does NOT prove its civvy. Many WD Norton frames are missing or have an indistinct "W". If the spring mounts for the seat are vertical as opposed to horizontal its WD. see previous post for civvy.

Tim, this period is a little earlier than my main focus and the earliest factory records excerpt that I have around this time is for what seem to be the first India Stores deliveries. Three 1934 model civilian 16Hs despatched 18/8/1934 and bearing frame numbers 54112, 54094 and 54106. Engines were 59257, 59258, 59259.

I have also now found some 'Army' Model 18s being delivered to Java in February 1935 with frames in the high 55,000s, low 56000s.

However, the numbers really are all over the place so there is a lot of guesswork or luck needed.

I'm assuming that it's an open diamond frame and not an ES2 / camshaft cradle ?

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how do you put photo on this site
SORRY GUYS IAM STUCK
dave

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

hi there

the seat number is 116976 N4
the fork number is 10298N4
and frame number with no evidence of letters 55547

thank dave

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

email (option): t.j.walker@btinternet.com

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

cheers Keith H
for the heads up on pic
thank dave

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Hi Dave
Looks like 41,42 WD frame with field stand lug and vertical spring mounts engine seems early WD(W3471)
Very nice machine good luck with the resto see website wdnorton.nl for more info

hi guys
can we find out, the bike unit that the bike severed in. or is that to much to ask
big thank dave

email (option): llamadaveuk@yahoo.com

Finding out the war service of a particular bike is virtually impossible,as they were stripped, rebuilt, engines changed etc. More info "individual motorcycle history" page at wdnorton.nl website

The number's a puzzle. The stampings look OK to me and don't look 'got at'. There is some abrasion around the lug but no evidence of a re-stamp. As Keith says, the extra field stand lug indicates later wartime WD practice. If your front downtube measures roughly 7 1/16" between the lugs (rather than 8 1/16") then it is definitely a WD frame.

There are examples of later frames without the 'W' prefix (perhaps supplied as spares as most contracts were accompanied by 10% spare frames which were presumably unstamped). However, that the number should also be one which falls outside of any known contracts is doubly puzzling. It could be that there was, for instance an undocumented RAF contract that used some of the missing numbers but no evidence of that yet.

In terms of production dates of the frame, W45001 was delivered on 'Day 316' of 1941 and about 2500 had been delivered by February 1942. There doesn't seem to be any production gap therefore between the contract completing at W50000 and the delivery of W60000 on 10/4/1942.

I can't see a photo of the engine number but if it's W3471 then it was supplied under contract C5109. Working back through the deliveries, it was sent to Chilwell around 27/11/1939. This was earlier than the first deliveries to the Canadians and the odds are that it was supplied to a unit in the UK who did not become part of the BEF. The frames from W3478 and W3484 survived the war, but with 'rebuild' census numbers suggesting that they were supplied to British Army units at that time and probably didn't leave the UK.

Do the cases have an M^74 inspector's stamping ? I'd be interested to see a photograph. Are there any other stampings on the engine ? Possible a 'WO' number on the front of the timing chest or workshop stampings below the engine number ?

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Going off at a tangent...Is the frame number known of the Norton that was fitted with a WB30 engine and gearbox?.....I know the WB30 engine numbers for all the hybrid machines but not all the frame numbers...Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

The Norton chassis was C4389667 and it appears that it wasn't stamped, but the records do include the number (W)29641 which computes with the census number. I can't quite read the comment but I've long felt that Norton only stamped the frames at the moment of despatch so it appears that having removed the engine from this one, they probably didn't bother but they'd already taken the King's shilling for painting on the census number!

e-mail follows.

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

hi rik
cheers rik for all the help mate
thank dave