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UK MOT debate.

There has been discussion on here about whether or not an MOT is required for first registration of pre 1960 vehicles. Here is an excerpt from a VMCC registration document that clearly states 'Not Needed' Ron.
PS. again the picture is cropped for some reason. Click the picture to read it properly.
 photo Scan-131126-0001_zps4f39b883.jpg

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

I think you could read that two ways.

It says "you will need to get the vehicle MoTed".

It also says its exempt if its pre 1960.

But its only exempt if it says its pre 1960 on the log book and you can't get a log book without an MOT, so my reading is that you do need an initial MOT?

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

Re: UK MOT debate.

That's my understanding of it, to first register the vehicle you need an MOT to prove that it is roadworthy to start with, once you have a V5C then you can revert to the exemption.

Re: UK MOT debate.

I disagree Rob/Ian. You must prove the age of the vehicle for an age related registration number by means of a dating letter from an authorised source. The dating letter is what DVLA will then use to issue your log book.
Two friends of mine (Indian Tim and Locksmith Graham) are currently registering bikes directly with Swansea as our local office in Bournemouth is now shut down.
Which is how I came by this VMCC form. So far, both are registering without MOT's.......We shall see! Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

My 1949 matchless was on the road in three days monday went to dvla with dating certificate from the matchless club insurance done on the frame number the woman their filled in the v form but i did take four pictures of the bike with me no mot. Thursday post new reg number tax disc for a year got number plate made on the road thursday night.

Re: UK MOT debate.

Fingers crossed that I'm wrong.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

Re: UK MOT debate.

But whats the problem with a one off MOT in the first place?
Is the bike that much of a wreck?

Re: UK MOT debate.

The government changed the rules, not me! And I'm not suggesting you shouldn't get an MOT if you want to. Why would you even infer that the bike might be a Wreck? But as I've said before. It seems that DVLA staff can interpret the rules differently. I know only to well about that as I recently had two totally different and conflicting instructions when trying to get an 'A' plate removed from my WD/L Enfield. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

Thanks for posting that Ron, It's nice to see things in writing.

Re: UK MOT debate.

ken
But whats the problem with a one off MOT in the first place?
Is the bike that much of a wreck?


In my case the problem is my Welbike, it doesn't have enough brakes to get an MOT, and I can't get insurance without a Registration number.

If I can get it registered I still technically wouldn't be able to take it on the road but I could fill in the form to get it into some vehicle shows.

Rob

email (option): robmiller11(at)yahoo.co.uk

Re: UK MOT debate.

This is another strange one. I hear this about a short cover period for vehicles insured by the frame number. Yet my Flea, ML and Welbike have been insured on their frame numbers since the days of AC Miles. I can't think why it should be any different to insuring a Grandfather clock. I know I can't take them on the public highway, but then I never want to! Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

not suggesting the bike is a wreck Ron, but wondering why such a fight should be put up against a one off MOT?

As for the Welbike it was never intended as a roadworthy vehicle surely? A bit of disposable battlefield kit is what it was. Use it and chuck it, like a grenade but almost less lethal.........

There are a lot of owners of rusty 1950s cars to whom the lack of an MOT will be a godsend.

Re: UK MOT debate.

Hi Ron
Please can you let us know how your two friends get on registering thier bikes. My unregistered M20 is about 80% finished and am hoping to have it ready for Normandy. It could save a lot of time if I can register now before its finished and ready to ride to an MOT station rather than a big rush at the last minute . Is there a best place to get the dating certificate from, ie BSA / VMCC or another source.
Thanks Jeff

Re: UK MOT debate.

As the MOT's for bikes get tougher, older bikes will not pass the newer test. Probably on brakes etc. We had a post on here before of an MOT tester that failed a Bike on the girder forks because they touched the headstoke when the bike was jacked up causing it to not turn freely. This is one of the reasons pre 60 bikes are exempt. My missus Dad had a 1928 Fiat, the MOT tester used to just walk around it to make sure it had 4 wheels, there was no way it would pass a current MOT test.

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: UK MOT debate.

Yes Jeff. I'll report back on their results as soon as I get them.

Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

my log book states in section 4; first registered march 1984. In section 3 special notes; was registered and/or used. declared manufactured 1939. So where does that leave me?...

Re: UK MOT debate.

That is exactly as it should be. As long as the vehicle manufacture date is declared then it will be MOT except. I have about a dozen such V5C's and all are taxed on line in seconds with no MOT. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

That's good news then! thanks Ron

Re: UK MOT debate.

DVLA send out the reminder as usual for my 1935 machine when it needs tax . . its stated on the V5 as first reg 1935 but says first registered in the UK 2005. so I've now taxed it online twice since the new MOT rule. both times without a hitch & without an MOT.
BUT ... the reminders when i recieve them state very clearly "This Vehicle needs a current MOT".
I'm not overly bothered but it does make me wonder if they are covering themselves by putting that.

Re: UK MOT debate.

I changed some details on a V5C at Worcester DVLA before it closed, and they made me fill out a V112 form "Declaration of MOT exemption". Vehicle reg number, your name and signiture, and "O" in the box, which is the catagory the vehicle is exempt from MOT. ie pre 1960. DVLA them stamped it for me, but you can print it from the internet and fill it out. I've done this recently with another bike and it's very useful to shut the woman up in the Post Office that reads the bit that says "This vehicle needs an MOT" as Fred has pointed out. Keep the form with your logbook for next time.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/222585/dg_065277.pdf

email (option): horror@blueyonder.co.uk

Re: UK MOT debate.

Hi. Is there any update on whether you require an MOT to register a pre 1960 motorcycle for an age related registration plate.
Thanks
Jeff

email (option): m90disco@fsmail

Re: UK MOT debate.

You do not need one not much more to say really just hope the person at vosa is in a good mood .

Re: UK MOT debate.

I don't know the answer regarding REGISTERING a pre-60 UK vehicle today and the requirement for a one-off MoT for this...........and I think we've discussed the UK MoT matter many times before on this Forum.......

As an annual test, the MoT inspection is only really valid at the completion of the test.......drive away from the garage and you may get a blown bulb, broken spoke, etc, and the vehicle is then technically in breach of the MoT and road-use regulations.............BUT, although the MoT certificate issued has a year-long period of validation, the onus for maintaining the vehicle in a roadworthy condition in compliance with UK RTA regulations remains firmly with the registered "keeper" and/or person using the vehicle.............so in essence, nothing has changed.......

Any person using or keeping a vehicle on a UK public road is responsible for ensuring that said vehicle is maintained in a roadworthy condition in accordance with the current requirements of the RTA and construction & use regulations........MoT exempt or not, the responsibility for maintaining the vehicle hasn't altered........

I personally often looked at the MoT test as an inconvenience, especially in cases where I had not used a particular bike between one MoT and the next.........BUT, it was useful in highlighting areas of attention that I will admit I had overlooked, such as wheel bearings requiring adjustment, etc............and probably also highlighting my own laziness !!!

Re: UK MOT debate.

( 'DVLA send out the reminder as usual for my 1935 machine when it needs tax . . its stated on the V5 as first reg 1935 but says first registered in the UK 2005. so I've now taxed it online twice since the new MOT rule. both times without a hitch & without an MOT.
BUT ... the reminders when i recieve them state very clearly "This Vehicle needs a current MOT".
I'm not overly bothered but it does make me wonder if they are covering themselves by putting that.' )


Whether your vehicle requires an MOT or not is governed by its recorded date of manufacture...not its date of registration.

My M20 is of 1941 manufacture but is in the DVLA records as manufactured in 1968 (which was also the date it was first registered on the roads).
This error on the part of the DVLA (or the old licensing authorities) means my M20 still requires an MOT....

Unless something has changed you can insure an unregistered bike on its frame number and ride it directly to and from an MOT station to get the MOT required at first registration (if it's still required!!)

Bizarrely, and illogically, a dating certificate is accepted by the DVLA to confirm the date of manufacture in this case...but is not if you want to change an incorrect date of manufacture that is already recorded...Then you need a copy of the manufacturers records....

Two different documents in different circumstances to prove the same thing...

You could hardly make it up....

The DVLA couldn't organise an escape if the f*****g door was left open..But they've proved that enough times already....Ian

email (option): ian@wright52.plus.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

Lol !!! You have to agree though Ian, this bureaucratic bollox is a totally BRITISH thing !!!!!! Our organised German relations would never tolerate such inefficiency.......or efficiency, rather bizarely, entirely depending on your perspective and/or sense of humour..........."fork handles" springs to mind............:o)

Re: UK MOT debate.

Ian Wright
( 'DVLA send out the reminder as usual for my 1935 machine when it needs tax . . its stated on the V5 as first reg 1935 but says first registered in the UK 2005. so I've now taxed it online twice since the new MOT rule. both times without a hitch & without an MOT.
BUT ... the reminders when i recieve them state very clearly "This Vehicle needs a current MOT".
I'm not overly bothered but it does make me wonder if they are covering themselves by putting that.' )


Whether your vehicle requires an MOT or not is governed by its recorded date of manufacture...not its date of registration.


I thought I was one of the few people who had never had a problem understanding that it's done on date of manufacture. ... on that subject, the D.O.M DVLA give for MOT exemption is before 7.1.1960 to keep it inline with the date for road tax exemption which is also the 7th Jan. as these vehicles most likely were built pre xmas holidays.
anyway my gripe is that on some forms the DVLA contradict themselves by stating the cut off point for MOT exemption as 1.1.1960 when we know it's actually 7.1.1960 on the official statement ..... Bearing in mind they've had since 2011 to get that right.

Re: UK MOT debate.

Hi Ron
I've got a dating certificate for my Matchless and would also like to get it registered in good time. Likewise our local DVLC office has closed so what forms do I need and how can you get them. Do You also have to take photos?
Regards
Paul

email (option): paul@holmesfamily.ws

Re: UK MOT debate.

Paul although I have been involved with registrations of lots of vehicles. I've never had to do it so far with DVLA head office in Swansea. I got used to the procedure at my local office and was able to keep up with the various changes that occurred over the years.
I suggest you go to the DVLA web site and download the forms that are required. I dare say your PO will have them also.
I gather you will need the dating letter (back up pictures of frame/engine numbers might be useful), The DVLA registration form, insurance and the necessary fee. It's very probably that DVLA will require an inspection, but as yet I'm not sure how they plan this. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

FWIW I got my '52 M21 first registered with an age related plate just by writing 'age-exempt' on the V55 w.r.t. MOT.

I needed pics and rubbings to get the dating certificate from the BSAOC but once obtained the certificate was sufficient (along with the other pre-requisite paperwork) for DVLA.

I have however since wondered whether havng a valid an MOT might affect any insurance claim and have been meaning to call Carole Nash to ask....

Cheers,
Bernie

email (option): benrie.a.jones@gmail.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

Bernie, I have no intentions of phoning my insurance company. The decision was made by the government and I can't see how an insurance company can make their own rules up. There have been MOT exempt vehicles for years now. My own Morris Commercial for over 20 years. There are some vehicles that it is impossible to MOT anyway....Like track laying or traction engines for instance.

One thing that is certain though, is that individual members of DVLA staff can seem to interpret the rules differently Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Re: UK MOT debate.

It's quite some years since I worked in UK motor insurance but it was never the case that a policy could be invalidated on any vehicle due to the lack of an MOT. The only documentation stipulated on most policies was that the driver should hold a valid driving licence.

The insurers know that they cannot throw out a third party claim on a technicality as the MIB would expect them to deal as 'interested insurer' anyway.

What they used to do with vehicles which were required to have an MOT but didn't was to reduce theft or own damage settlements on the basis that these should reflect the market value and the value of a vehicle that was not MOT'd was lower.

Now that there is a further class of vehicles which do not require MOTs, their market value will obviously not be reduced by the absence of a test certificate. They can and will reduce payments if the vehicle is not roadworthy at the time of the claim.

It is a policy requirement that the vehicle be in a roadworthy condition but I've never seen a policy which stipulates that a test certificate must be present.

Anyone who's not confident of their ability to spot defects which affect roadworthiness would probably be well advised to have the vehicle checked by a professional on an annual basis at least.

Re: UK MOT debate.

Paul Holmes
Hi Ron
I've got a dating certificate for my Matchless and would also like to get it registered in good time. Likewise our local DVLC office has closed so what forms do I need and how can you get them. Do You also have to take photos?
Regards
Paul
Yes take pics of tne front back and each side it wont hurt to send them, Also you need to insure it on the frame number. The pics might just save you an inspection.

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