Greetings, I'm new to this forum and am seeking some guidance on the correct painting of a 1941 G3L, North Africa Campaign. I've looked at as many original photos I could find in North Africa and restorations. The black and white photos are difficult to tell if the cam cover, engine case, trans, etc. are painted or not. Some have black painted cylinder and head but others are natural metal color. Is there any pamphlet, book or instruction that covers what was the British Army regulations? Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Ken

email (option): LuckyLindy67@gmail.com

not another Ken that'll confuse them, they won't know who's the grumpy one.

as for your can of worms you just opened

there is no set regulation for paint, unless you count the salute it if it moves, paint it if it doesn't aspect.

loads about paint on here in past posts.

Here's my M20 in desert colour (with a bit of extra camouflage)...This will give you a fair idea of the colour....Exact shade varied and there were a couple of colours used...One a sandstone colour the other a very pale/creamy sand colour....Ian give

PS...Welcome to the forum by the way...The official colours were known as 'Light Stone' and 'Desert yellow' ..My M20 is also '41....Ian

yea Ians right there is no hard and fast rule about correct colour its whatever was available at the time, for the desert some were left drab olive which soon became shotblasted by the sand, my Norton 16h I painted magnolia! workshops were supplied paint from anywhere they could get it, I have never seen two machines the same shade
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Yes, It's worth remembering desert colours were not factory applied colours...They were done by the Army either before leaving for North Africa or 'in theatre' after arrival...and as Baza noted, some weren't repainted at all but retained their factory applied 'temperate climate' colour.....Ian

Ken, are you sure it is a 1941 G3L? What are the frame and engine numbers? I have a Norton Big 4 sidecar outfit that came back from Egypt in what I thought was Desert sand. Someone later told me that it was the. German Wrhrmacht colour. Cheers John

Gentleman,
Many thanks for such prompt replies. You are all extremely helpful. Now that the color is sorted, I'd like to know if I should or shouldn't paint the cam cover, engine cases, gear box, cylinder, cylinder head (usually black), pushrod tubes, oil cap, etc. Of course the frame, mudguards, handlebars, forks and rims get the desert paint but around the motor and tranny, I've seen loads of restorations where a mix of these items were painted, others were left unpainted. I can't find any consistency. Sometimes the cylinder/cylinder head are black and other times just plain metal or metal painted silver. Is there an historically "correct" method of painting the right bits? Perhaps it was at the unit's discretion? Thanks again.
the other Ken

email (option): LuckyLindy67@gmail.com

If it helps I picked my G3L up in Cyprus in 1981. After spending many hours removing 40 years of Cypriot paint by hand I came down to a very creamy yellow paint followed by red lead and bare metal. The bikes history had it all over North Africa since it was delivered in early 1945 before ending up in my hands in Cyprus.
After spending 35 years in the RAF I was tired of military colour schemes so I civilianised it last April. So my advice would be go for a creamy yellow which oddly doesn't look anything like the colour of sand but would be pretty close to what it was painted. Oh yes and the gearbox, crankcase cylinder and head were also plastered in the yellow stuff too.

yes, checked against the chart in the British Forces Motorcycles 1925-1945
Engine # 41/G3L/25552, Frame # 24092, Contract # C9841
Thanks

My Matchless was out in the Middle East from 1941 until 1958 and underneath the civilian maroon, it was good old Khaki Green, not a scrap of sand colour, so just because a bike was out in the desert doesn't automatically mean it was ever desert coloured.

Certainly with the M20 it was far more common during the war years for the crankcases/gearbox/ magdyno etc. not to be painted..Cylinder and head were always finished in black...(These were the finishes when they were built)...

Postwar, particularly at refurbishment, it became common practice to paint the whole thing...I have bought one Army recon engine and two gearboxes at various times still in their post war storage crates and all painted...Ian

Hi Ken
The G3L parts manual lists parts which were painted "Khaki" green,
ie- Crankcase-complete-Khaki green - W-41-63-E108 etc. so you can check what was painted.
If you haven't got one I can try to send you an e-mail with a PDF copy attached.
Regards
Paul

email (option): paul@holmesfamily.ws

Paul,
Thanks, I do have the pdf file. I had not noticed that parts were designated khaki green. I've been going through it and for the most part it's pretty clear, however, there is no mention of color for the cylinder and cylinder head so I'm guessing just bare metal. This is a great forum and I appreciate everybody's assistance.

Ken it's strange with these Matchless's! Looking at original pictures seem to show the gearbox is painted with a mixture of painted or bare crank and timing cases. However the parts lists show these cases as 'Painted'. I painted my cases mainly to be different from my other bikes with all ally cases. Ron

email (option): ronpier@talk21.com

Bare metal on cylinders and heads?????

rusty from the word go???

is this your first bike resto?

paint them black as was standard; if its got a cast iron rocker box pain it green, if not leave it.

at the factory they would have stove enameled them, these days smooth Hammerite will do, but stink at first start up.

The cast iron timing covers would have been painted I should think..
With aluminium cases I like the unpainted look myself...and I tend to think if it isn't painted it can't scratch, chip or fall off!....Ian

I've got a Norton 16h cylinder head NOS, been in store with the army. It's painted green all over, even on the inside!

The question is NOS from what period?....Ian

In National Service days if they wanted to keep idle hands busy it was normal practice to get squaddies to unwrap parts in store, regrease, slap paint on where possible, count them, salute them or whatever and repackage.

you can find the evidence for this on the labelling. [Chilwell usually] and a date] So because its NOS does not necessarily mean its as it left the factory.


Incidentally, that pic of the bike with the vokes I believe that the pushrod tubes and the exhaust were cadmium plated not silver paint.
My pushrod tubes off my army re-con engine are cad plate, but the NOS exhaust system I got from Russells back in 1971 waas already painted black, and not with a brush.

I did not mean bare metal per se but bare in the sense it is unpainted (but with a metal plating such as cadmium). The parts manual actually says "bare" for some parts and says khaki-green for many parts. Many thanks for all the advice.

Hi,While looking for something else in British standards,I turned up BS987 c
1942 cammoflage colors. I have not yet searched it but it may throw up a bit of unknown info.
also an interesting bit on cammoflage (but mainly buildings etc)with more
BS numbers
http://patrickbaty.co.uk/2011/10/05/wartime-camouflage-colours/
cheers Rick

email (option): richardholt@rocketmail.com

Here is a NOS Matchless head out of its crate

Click on photo to see expanded view

email (option): unpob@yahoo.com