Hi , ive got a Norton 16H with mating numbers w77435. it also has c7739 on the lead edge of the crank case and 75733 near the headstock. I was wondering if anyone could give any information regarding build date/history, also what would be at least a reasonably correct C number for the tank. im hoping to get the bike on the road in time for the D day trip.. cheers .

Hi Dave
I have W77402 (also matching numbers) so can tell you yours was part of contract 23S/S150, (S.150 according to Orchard and Maddens book), Catalogue Ref 34, built as part of a batch of 1250 in June 1942. This is according to information I have from the Records Officer of the Norton Owners Club.
The other numbers you mention are casting numbers.
The correct C number for yours is C4858685
Incidently it cost the MOD £65 pounds 12 shillings!

Hope this is of use.

Hi keith, thanks for that, more info than I dared hope for. its nice to know theres another one so closely related..they must have rolled out the door on the same day, just 33 bikes apart..for some reason it says its a 39 on the log book...it was registered in march 84...I think with the changes at dvla, i'll probably leave well alone though.....
I don't suppose theres any chance of finding out if it saw action? it has had quite a lot of lead loading on the tank..its got the correct amp meter and switch etc but the black out mask is a home one with the slits in. this had been purchased buy the previous owner and still had the tag on it. It does still have the small back light... it has a repro tool box and I wondered if I could get a repro brass plate for it? thanks again. Dave.

Hi Dave
Thanks for the reply. All I can add is that mine was first registered for the road in 1948 so was with the forces for 6 years. There is no way (see forum threads) of finding out the war history of an individual bike but I have seen a photo of one from the same batch in Italy.
I got a repro brass contract plate from a guy in Spain who sells through ebay, he also does the larger workshop plate as well. He will also stamp whatever you want on them.
Spares can still be found if you look around.

I have a horrible feeling here that the NOC dating officer at the time has consulted his records incorrectly or has perhaps made incorrect assumptions based upon the incomplete information available.

Orchard & Madden don't actually list any frame and engine numbers against contract S150. They were generally vary careful only to show what they could demonstrate from official sources. It is now clear from information not available to them at the time that the 1250 machines of S150 were numbered W76001 - W77250 and thus followed on from C12426 (W70001 - W76000). Delivery actually commenced in June 1943

Regrettably, there is an unexplained gap in respect of the numbers W77251 - W78000 incl. Generally, whenever we find these gaps in the army frame numbers, there are Air Ministry or Admiralty contracts around the same period. To date, no complete list of RAF contracts with frame numbers has been found but every so often, documents turn up with the odd detail on so I live in hope. There is no record of Norton WD contract No.36 but my feeling is that there is a good chance that the 522 sidecar outfits of RAF contract S921 might well make up a large part of the missing numbers here. It wouldn't be definitive, but do either of the bikes have 18" wheels by any chance ?

Keith
Could you let me know the contact details of the guy in Spain who can supply a repro contract plate?
My Spannish is not up to much and I can't find it on www.ebay.es
Thanks
Ian

email (option): ian@ian-richards.com

Thanks for replies...there wasn't much original paint left ,but I did find some green covered by khaki brown in some corners. The wheels are 19" and judging by the pitting, seem to match the rest of the bike. so I doubt raf or sidecar history for this bike. But I had thought it was an early 1943 bike from the numbers people have posted on the 16H/NL site... anymore info greatly appreciated...
ps... found a hole inside one of the wheel rims...so if anyone has a wheel going cheap...chrome unimportant

He sells on eBay UK. I can't see a contract plate at the moment but this is the chap :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VEHICLE-REPAIR-DATA-PLATE-Brass-WD-WM20-M20-BSA-NORTON-TRIUMPH-ROYAL-/231074491229?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item35cd1ceb5d

Rik
Thanks for that.
I have just emailed him to see if he has any.
TTFN
Ian

email (option): ian@ian-richards.com

Rik
Mine has 19" rims and I'm 99% sure they are the originals

Dave, RAF machines delivered after 1941 were finished in the current service colour. (In March 1941, the Ministry of Supply agreed to accept 20 Norton motorcycles in RAF Blue for which delivery had already been effected, but judging by the wording, they weren't very pleased about it !)

It is not known when exactly that 18" wheels became standardised on the RAF outfits, early ones certainly didn't, but it might have been an extra clue. Most ex-Government sales were via dealers, many of whom mixed and matched before sale as well.

Would there be any chance of a photo of the stampings on the engine case, for my database ? (That sounds grand but is just an attempt to monitor stamping styles for clues to dating).

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Hi Rik, pics sent by email. I have to say , this is probably the most helpful forum ive ever been on. cheers lads !

Thanks Dave. Your number stampings and indeed crankcase finish are absolutely 'bang-on' for a WD16H engine of this date / number range. The numbers stamped down the front edge seem to be engine build numbers, a system which Norton continued post-war (I have a 'V' prefix number on a 1946 engine).

Please do make sure that your 16H is ready for Normandy. We need as many Nortons present as possible. There will of course be more M20s than we can shake a stick at (not that it'll stop me of course ! )Have you got a lot of work to do ?

If you're looking for a census number, you could use one of the batch allocated for rebuilds in the range C1400000 - C1499999. There were also 18 numbers issued (C4657352 - C4657369) used for machines transferred from the RAF.

A batch of nine numbers immediately after S150 went unused (4859251 - 4859259) but strictly speaking, by this period, the last two digits should match the last two of the frame number (meaning yours would have ended in '35')

email (option): 79x100@gmail.com

Dave, I have a good rim, for a 16H, that you can have, will be at the coming Malvern Military thing coming Nov. 17th, and could bring along.

Cheers,

Lex

email (option): welbike at welbike.net

Lex, that's great! was thinking of going to that as its not far away... im in south Derbyshire...i'll email you.

Hello Dave,

I have too 16 H Norton but don't know much about Numbers. But if you required any parts for it Let me know. Raj.

email (option): rajusa81@hotmail.com